Oltux72

Whence come the other plants' and animals' powers?

13 posts in this topic

Magic powers are ubiquitous on at least some areas of First of the Sun. Aviars are not unusual for having magical powers but for bonding with people and granting them powers.

Aviars get their powers from worms. But what about the trees and animals on the other islands and in the ocean? A tree really cannot fly to Patji to pick up a worm. Do they all have symbionts of their own? Then why don't people form bonds with them? Granted, a bond with a tree may be a bit inconvinient, but a rodent which would give you telepathy - that's an easy choice. And why do the worms occur only in the eye, but magical animals and plants all over the Pantheon at least?

I would draw the following conclusions:

  • the aviars are not native to the Dromaid system
  • the worms are an artificial life form
  • they live in the eye because a shard or its avatar put them there
  • the worms are specifically designed for a bond with humans


 

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I believe the worms are only in the eye because of the direct connection the Shard that is Invested/Investing on that planet. The rest of it is probably just that same Shard messing with things as well.

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Patji is the only island which is also a shard of Autonomy so everything there is a splinter.

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It's been a long time since I last read this story, and I am due for a reread - could you remind me what other flora and fauna has seemingly magical abilities? 

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Posted (edited)

4 minutes ago, Argent said:

It's been a long time since I last read this story, and I am due for a reread - could you remind me what other flora and fauna has seemingly magical abilities? 

Several of the predators can sense minds for example.  This is why everyone on Paji needs to have an Avair to shield their thoughts.

Edited by Karger
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Oh, right. Isn't all this because the flora and fauna native to Patji have evolved natural magical abilities just from being in a place with high levels of ambient Investiture, and the Aviars - strangely - have evolved/developed a bond with one specific species, the worms?

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2 hours ago, Argent said:

Oh, right. Isn't all this because the flora and fauna native to Patji have evolved natural magical abilities just from being in a place with high levels of ambient Investiture, and the Aviars - strangely - have evolved/developed a bond with one specific species, the worms?

I always thought it was because the island itself was one Autonomy's avatars along with everything on it.  You are correct about the worms though.

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6 hours ago, Argent said:

Oh, right. Isn't all this because the flora and fauna native to Patji have evolved natural magical abilities just from being in a place with high levels of ambient Investiture, and the Aviars - strangely - have evolved/developed a bond with one specific species, the worms?

It isn't just Patji. The sea creatures hunt by sensing your mind. And they use Sori as a training island. That would make no sense if Patji alone had the magical beasts.

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Sounds like I definitely need a reread then...

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3 hours ago, Argent said:

Sounds like I definitely need a reread then...

I have a copy on Kindle if you need it for whatever reason.

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My guess is that it's simiilar to how life on Roshar evolved to take advantage of the ambient Investiture. Various flora and fauna on the islands developed Cognitive abilities to either track prey or lure it and the Aviar (or at least one species) developed a way to protect themselves and anyone bonded to them from this. We've already seen how Investiture can work that way, since BioChroma includes 'lifesense'. There must be a similar principle at work since Brandon's even told us that an Aviar would interfere with lifesense,

As for why the Aviar are unique in being able to bond with humans and share their talent and why theirs is through symbiosis rather than being apparently innate, it's possible that Autonomy fiddled with the system to make it possible as we know that a Shard has tinkered with the world by the time of the story.

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10 hours ago, Weltall said:

My guess is that it's simiilar to how life on Roshar evolved to take advantage of the ambient Investiture. Various flora and fauna on the islands developed Cognitive abilities to either track prey or lure it

That would mean that the perpendicularity of Patji predates the Shattering. In fact it means that the island of Patji needs to be old in geological terms.

10 hours ago, Weltall said:

and the Aviar (or at least one species) developed a way to protect themselves and anyone bonded to them from this.

Well, no. Animals gather at night under the roosting trees of wild aviars to have their thoughts hidden. Hence these Aviars are effective without a bond. And Sak being a mainland bird cannot have evolved her ability.

10 hours ago, Weltall said:

We've already seen how Investiture can work that way, since BioChroma includes 'lifesense'. There must be a similar principle at work since Brandon's even told us that an Aviar would interfere with lifesense,

Yes, but we know what powers lifesense: Breath, that ultimately comes from Endowment
So, do the Aviars or their worms pick up something like Breath at the Eye or is there a kind of "ambient Investiture" they operate on? Or are they like metals and open a channel?

(Rosharan System)

Spoiler

They seem to share that design with Ashyn.

10 hours ago, Weltall said:

As for why the Aviar are unique in being able to bond with humans and share their talent and why theirs is through symbiosis rather than being apparently innate, it's possible that Autonomy fiddled with the system to make it possible as we know that a Shard has tinkered with the world by the time of the story.

 

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6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

That would mean that the perpendicularity of Patji predates the Shattering. In fact it means that the island of Patji needs to be old in geological terms.

I'm not seeing a problem here, we know that the Investiture was already there by the time of the Shattering and that no Shard had to be there to create that system. It's in one of the WoBs I linked and there are more where Brandon has confirmed it. We also get from Khriss in Arcanum Unbounded that almost all the inhabited worlds in the Cosmere were such pre-Shattering and there's no reason to think that First of the Sun is one of the few exceptions.

Quote

Well, no. Animals gather at night under the roosting trees of wild aviars to have their thoughts hidden. Hence these Aviars are effective without a bond. And Sak being a mainland bird cannot have evolved her ability.

Fair point on the first, but perhaps the bond is what Autonomy fiddled with rather than the Talents, and the Aviar were for some reason the best candidates for that. Sak's Talent being new doesn't really affect the argument about how the 'hiding lifesense' one could be explained in evolutionary terms because hers is a completely different Talent, while the one Kokerlii grants is native to the Pantheon.

Quote

Yes, but we know what powers lifesense: Breath, that ultimately comes from Endowment
So, do the Aviars or their worms pick up something like Breath at the Eye or is there a kind of "ambient Investiture" they operate on? Or are they like metals and open a channel?

There is ambient Investiture on all Shardworlds, what distinguishes the 'major' ones from the 'minor' ones is method of access and raw power. The latter was also in the (admittedly long) WoB I linked previously.

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