Bands of mourning ending

[Dragon Reborn]

So at the ending of BOM when Wax goes though the coppermind I have some theories about it. How did Hoid get the coppermind coin, and why does the vision of the memory have one eye like the vision of a Inquisitor and one normal vision.

[Nathrangking]

We don't know. Because that person is spiked. Have you read Mistborn secret history?

[Dragon Reborn]

Yes I did

[Nathrangking]

That's Kelsier stapled into a body by a hemalurgic spike.

[Calderis]

For reference... 

Quote

Questioner

In Bands of Mourning, we learned that the Sovereign, who they confused as being the Lord Ruler, came after the Catacendre. [He] was their god, was their king and god. And then Kelsier looking for a string. Is the spike somehow connecting Kelsier's soul to Spook's body.

Brandon Sanderson

No, good question. It is connecting his soul with his body, his current body, but it is not Spook's body. That's a great theory.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

Edit: seriously waited to post this until they answered if they'd read it or not... Cause that's a hell of a spoiler

Edited May 17, 2019 by Calderis

[+robardin]

There are a number of clues about the coppermind coin's origin or purpose.

1 - It doesn't seem ancient, i.e., Kelsier didn't create it (directly) hundreds of years ago. That, or it's been kept somewhere very well in all that time.

2 - It has "symbols similar to the ones in the pictures ReLuur took (of the temple of the Bands)" - presumably, writing from the South

3 - Wax assumed it was a "relic ReLuur found at the temple", but that can't be true, because...

4 - Devlin, the "informant" at the party, tells him that "coins like these have been moving with some regularity through black-market antiquities auctions", and that "[Lord] Gave bought a few, then immediately stopped, and the pieces he purchased are no longer on display in his home."

5 - Devlin also states that "whatever is being covered up... involves a massive building project to the northeast of here" by a group he apparently knows about to some degree (the Set). But the Set can't be the source of the coins if they're from the Temple, because they hadn't been there yet; nor had they discovered the use of the "unsealed medallions" technology yet from their Southern captives. So are the "coins like these" he mentions circulating unsealed medallions of unknown purpose that simply haven't been useful because nobody handling them knew what they might be?

(Devlin, BTW, sounds an awful like like Mraize from the Stormlight Archive, doesn't he? Maybe not a physical match, but perhaps a... Compatriot?)

Why would Kelsier store that particular memory of his arriving to the South, anyway? When we see Sazed storing into his copperminds in Era 1, he loses the memory he stores, needing to create an index of memories to retrieve it later while he still "remembers remembering" what was put into it. That memory in the coin doesn't seem like something Kelsier himself would need to archive as a "keep this safe for later" memory, unless a side effect of living for so long is having to offload memories that no longer fit in one's head.

In fact, we have a WoB that "Kelsier did not want that information to get out", what was on that coppermind coin. So why ever make an unsealed version of it, then, instead of a keyed coppermind that only he could retrieve? Or was it meant only for "priestly use" by his followers at the Temple? After all, the coppermind coin was thrown to Wax by Hoid, nothing says it has the same provenance as the ones that had been circulating in New Seran courtesy of the Set's operations.

Maybe compounding copper allows one to store memories into a coppermind without forgetting, and Kelsier-as-The-Sovereign created them as "holy relics" (a bit disturbing to see him going Lord Ruler all on his own) for his Southern priests as an origin story of sorts, but never intended for it to spread to the North. After which, copies were made.

[+Invocation]

3 hours ago, robardin said:

1 - It doesn't seem ancient, i.e., Kelsier didn't create it (directly) hundreds of years ago. That, or it's been kept somewhere very well in all that time.

I'd probably go with the latter, here. Seems like the kind of thing they'd want to keep very safe and secure and undecaying. 

[Ghanderflaffle]

I just finished the book today, but I feel like it was kept well instead of being recently made.

[Arith Matic]

It would have to be recent because the ability to create unkeyed metalminds is granted through nicrosil, which is a metal that was discovered recently.  In the book, wax sees that the coin has two sides, copper and nicrosil, making it newer, or at least since the knowledge of allomantic nicrosil was known.

[Talmanes]

So with the original trilogy fresh in my head (just finished rereading tonight) along with SH, I'm fairly certain that Kelsier took over Marsh's body.

At the end of HoA, Marsh only has one eye spike, and we know 'Ironeyes' is still alive (or at least his body). Marsh also had the most Allomantic and Feruchemical spikes Hemalurgically implanted, so could technically be immortal, but Kelsier taking it over seems likely.

 

[RShara]

25 minutes ago, Talmanes said:

So with the original trilogy fresh in my head (just finished rereading tonight) along with SH, I'm fairly certain that Kelsier took over Marsh's body.

At the end of HoA, Marsh only has one eye spike, and we know 'Ironeyes' is still alive (or at least his body). Marsh also had the most Allomantic and Feruchemical spikes Hemalurgically implanted, so could technically be immortal, but Kelsier taking it over seems likely.

 

Have you read Era 2?

[Talmanes]

Yes but only once and it was as they came out, so I could be cloudy here. Is my thought above disproved then? 

I was going to wait to reread Era 2 until the last one comes out, but heck, maybe I'll have to read them sooner.

[+Invocation]

4 hours ago, Talmanes said:

Yes but only once and it was as they came out, so I could be cloudy here. Is my thought above disproved then? 

I was going to wait to reread Era 2 until the last one comes out, but heck, maybe I'll have to read them sooner.

It's definitely not Marsh's body, let's say that.

[Talmanes]

Hmm, will have to reread, I don't remember it all clearly states this point apparently. Was just struck by the one metal one regular eye.

[RShara]

2 hours ago, Talmanes said:

Hmm, will have to reread, I don't remember it all clearly states this point apparently. Was just struck by the one metal one regular eye.

Yeah, the end of AoL makes it pretty clear what's going on with Marsh.

[Karger]

On 5/17/2019 at 10:20 AM, robardin said:

Why would Kelsier store that particular memory of his arriving to the South, anyway? When we see Sazed storing into his copperminds in Era 1, he loses the memory he stores, needing to create an index of memories to retrieve it later while he still "remembers remembering" what was put into it. That memory in the coin doesn't seem like something Kelsier himself would need to archive as a "keep this safe for later" memory, unless a side effect of living for so long is having to offload memories that no longer fit in one's head.

I personally think that someone has found a way around the memory vanishing thing by now.  I also think that if they have that Kelsier would record his experience saving people in order to inspire himself and his fellow survivors.

[Talmanes]

7 hours ago, RShara said:

Yeah, the end of AoL makes it pretty clear what's going on with Marsh.

I remember him being mentioned, but it's been years since I read AoL (right after it came out) and wasn't super into it at first either.