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Random Thoughts on Odium


StanLemon

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Had a thought on Odium today, hadn't noticed this anywhere else on the forums so I thought about making a thread.

So I was looking at the definition of Odium. Here is Merriam-Webster's...well one of the definitions.

"the state or fact of being subjected to hatred and contempt as a result of a despicable act or blameworthy circumstance"

It's the "result of a despicable act or blameworthy circumstance" part that got me thinking

All we have on Rayse before he was a Shard is from Hoid's perspective which is in all likelihood biased as you could also describe characters like Breeze for example as loathsome and crafty. I'm not saying by any means that Rayse was good by any means but he may very well have not been evil. After he became a Shard he may have been twisted by the Intent of his Shard like Ruin was.

We don't know enough about Ambition to make a clear statement but Endowment considered her a problem and I think that was what drove Odium to start killing shards. It's entirely possible that Ambition did something that Odium felt she deserved to be punished and destroyed for. As for Devotion and Dominion, they broke the agreement between the Shards and settled together on a planet. He could have viewed that as unacceptable and his Intent inflamed that to punish and destroy them as well. As for Honor and Cultivation, there is still much too much backstory we lack which could completely discount everything I've brought up but he ultimately did not Splinter Honor until after him and Cultivation were living on the same world. His hatred towards other characters seems to be focused at sleights such as humanity and the Parshendi turning away from him. 

I've said before that I'm of the opinion that the names of the Shard is by no means a full understanding of the Intent of the Shard but just an interpretation of the Intent. So I was thinking that perhaps Odium's Shard could also be interpreted as Judgement or something similar but Rayse interpreted in a terrible way twisting him into what he is now.

This is circumstantial at best but I found the thought interesting and I was curious what you all might think.

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Frost is the one that describes him as "God's own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context." Frost is about as neutral as we're likely going to see in the cosmere, and I don't personally have any reason to doubt his word.

We also have Brandon's word that Odium is killing other Shards because he wants to be the most powerful, without diluting his Shard with others.

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29 minutes ago, RShara said:

Frost is the one that describes him as "God's own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context." Frost is about as neutral as we're likely going to see in the cosmere, and I don't personally have any reason to doubt his word.

We also have Brandon's word that Odium is killing other Shards because he wants to be the most powerful, without diluting his Shard with others.

Like I said, the idea is circumstantial at best but Frost as far as we know has never held a Shard so he wouldn't know beyond the observation of how Odium has acted so his view could very well be less than accurate. And as far as WoB goes, he has been good about not making his villains so one dimensional with a few exceptions such as Straff. Also the desire for power could be the human aspect of him not his Shardic Intent.

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is one of those cases where the answer is old enough that it's probably gotten a bit buried! We have a WoB on this, and the answer is that dichotomy in meaning of the word odium between hatred itself and one who inspires hatred in others isn't supposed to be too ambiguous, as both apply to the Shard in question. See here:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/105/#e1146

Quote

Millennium

Some dictionaries list two meanings for the word "odium": the feeling of strong hatred, and that which provokes hatred from others. Do both of these apply to the Shard with that name?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

This is part of why he self-identifies as Passion in Oathbringer: he doesn't just want to further hatred. He has specific goals that will make him a figure to be hated, and he welcomes that consequence, similar to how certain modern politicians are when they attack the media.

I'd say Hoid's statements on how dangerous (you could reframe this as "powerful" if you like) Rayse and Odium as a pairing are is reliable, and that Odium himself might even agree with it if framed in neutral terms. And the desire to smash all the other shards is almost certainly coming from Rayse, as the refusal to ever modify his personality by picking up a second shard seems more the sort of thing we'd expect from Autonomy's Intent, even though it's strictly compatible with Odium if you view it as hatred of other personality types.

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  • 1 year later...

i see Odium as symbolizing the extremes of emotion. We got that cult scene where Hoid talks about excess, and wherever he goes people go to extreme emotions or stances. Seems to match with him wanting to be passion, which would make him more of peoples dedication to something. He wants to be that but everyone else agrees that he is too extreme and dubbed him Odium. Plus he was originally a human god, which fits well, and he has the Thrill as an underling.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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