Jump to content

Possibly Trell


Recommended Posts

I recently reread the Way of Kings after finishing my Mistborn reread and in Mistborn there is a chapter where Sazed is describing Trelagism where "They saw the stars as the Thousand Eyes of Trell watching them. The sun was the single, jealous eye of Trell’s brother, Nalt." The Interlude at the Purelake in the Way of Kings caught my attention when they described their god as "Nu Ralik was their god, but you always pretended that he wasn’t. Vun Makak—his younger, spiteful brother—had to be tricked into thinking you worshiped him, otherwise he’d get jealous." I also kinda remember a story where one moon was jealous of the others but I don't remember what book that was in. I just can't help but feel that these are all connected. (I do believe in the Autonomy=Trell theory)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's this weird little paraphrased WOB on it. Don't know how trustworthy:

Quote

Paladin Brewer (paraphrased)

Is there a link between Trell and Nalt from Mistborn and Nu Ralik and Vun Makik from Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

"No, there isn't, maybe just tenuously." He said something like that. He seemed confused that I asked that.

Calamity San Antonio signing (Feb. 26, 2016)

It is a striking similarity though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I have this idea that Trell and Odium are the same. Mostly because whenever Trell is spoken of in the Wax/Wayne books, it is linked with strong (and homicidal) emotions. The "Thousand Eyes of Trell" just seem to be the different ways that Odium's influence is interpreted on Scadrial, and the understanding that said being has influences elsewhere as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, AnywhereYouGo said:

I have this idea that Trell and Odium are the same. Mostly because whenever Trell is spoken of in the Wax/Wayne books, it is linked with strong (and homicidal) emotions. The "Thousand Eyes of Trell" just seem to be the different ways that Odium's influence is interpreted on Scadrial, and the understanding that said being has influences elsewhere as well.

Possible but I don't think so.  Odium is currently tied down in the Rosharan system.  It is possible that he escapes somehow after book 5 but that does not sit right with me because if he escapes then everyone on Roshar dies and if not then he is defeated and should probably go looking for somewhere to hide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

3 hours ago, AnywhereYouGo said:

I have this idea that Trell and Odium are the same. Mostly because whenever Trell is spoken of in the Wax/Wayne books, it is linked with strong (and homicidal) emotions. The "Thousand Eyes of Trell" just seem to be the different ways that Odium's influence is interpreted on Scadrial, and the understanding that said being has influences elsewhere as well.

They keep talking about Trell in Mistborn Era 2 and I don't think Odium can be on 2 different planets at once. One on Scadrial and one on Roshar. Someone named Trell shows up in White Sand Volume 2, also. Possible Worldhopper?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Almost all the questions on Trell have  been RAFOd, as Brandon said that it is going to be a huge part of next Mistborn era. And as I want to believe in connection between Trell and Odium, I really like this WoB:

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/4/#e354

Questioner

Is there any connection between Odium and Trell?

 

Brandon Sanderson

Is there any connection between Odium and Trell. This is-- Yes there is some connection. That is a question about-- If you understood it then great, if you didn't then don't worry.

It doesn't really say anything, but taking the fact, that red means Shard that is corrupted by other, if I got this correctly, I believe it is quite safe to make some assumptions (as far any guessing can by safe in cosmere). There is another WoB :

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/361/#e11251

mikkomikk

Is Trell (Era 2) and/or Austre related to a Shard? Like are they one, or working for one, or an avatar of one?

 

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, Trell is related to a Shard.

Spoiler

 

(I put accidentally a spoiler box above and have no idea how to delete it, sorry) 

It can be a pure coincidence, but all questions about certain Shards, or Trell being a Shard - RAFO. And what hit me in this one was the word 'related' (with an Avatar mentioned in question) that makes me believe in the theory that Trell is an Avatar of Autonomy corrupted by Odium who by the time of W&W books has partially freed himself what allowed him to influence something in the other part of cosmere. He is still stuck in Rosharian system but is able to use some of his power to continue destroying other Shards. And what supports the Autonomy part for me is the fact, that on Scadrial there were two Shards. And even if Bavadin doesn't want to intervene, it doesn't have to be true for all of her Avatars. 

I'd like to know what you think of this, even if it means my favourite theory being destroyed. 

 

Edited by Nnatel
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Nnatel said:

his

Her, Bradvin is a woman.  Other then that I mostly agree although Autonomy is perfectly willing to interfere with others she just can't stand being interfered with

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for correction, I wasn't sure and couldn't find it. 

And I'm almost sure that she stands for every Shard being on its own. 

Okay, found the WoB I was thinking of as I wrote this:

Quote

Autonomy does not want to be corrupted by anything else. And Autonomy would think the Shards are better on their own. 

(https://wob.coppermind.net/events/332/#e9608

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Nnatel said:

Thanks for correction, I wasn't sure and couldn't find it. 

And I'm almost sure that she stands for every Shard being on its own. 

Okay, found the WoB I was thinking of as I wrote this:

 

Which is in itself a reason to intercede in Scadrial. Or Sel. Or Roshar. 

Multiple shards interacting, whether in Harmony or opposition. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

Which is in itself a reason to intercede in Scadrial. Or Sel. Or Roshar. 

Multiple shards interacting, whether in Harmony or opposition. 

Wow, an even simpler explanation I haven't thought of. Thanks, so at last I agree that she is willing to intervene when other Shards decided on being together on one world. I feel like it makes my theory simpler as I don't have a problem with Autonomy anymore. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/2/2019 at 10:55 AM, Karger said:
On 6/2/2019 at 6:05 AM, Nnatel said:

his

Her, Bradvin is a woman.  Other then that I mostly agree although Autonomy is perfectly willing to interfere with others she just can't stand being interfered with

It's a little bit more complicated than that.  To quote Brandon: "try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned"

Quote

emailanimal

[Brandon] must have had enough of chuckles every time someone referred to Bavadin as a "he" over the past few years.....

Brandon Sanderson

Bavadin has several male personas, and has often appeared as male for one purpose or another, so it's not that much of an issue. She has more female personas, but some of the male ones are quite popular.

This won't be relevant for a long while, but as a service to the community, let me say this: try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned. There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her.

Argent

There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her.

I think that's hilarious.

I've been meaning to ask a similar question for a few days now, I am glad someone else did and you replied. Bavadin is now instantly super interesting to me!

Brandon Sanderson

Bavadin is awesome. One regret of finally moving on from White Sand (and doing the graphic novel, instead of doing an entire trilogy myself) is because I won't get to show her off as a character for a while. It should still happen, mind you, but I have enough on my plate right now that I just can't do it all.

Argent

Eh, it's alright. The more we wait to see her, the more practice writing you will have when you do write her, and the more awesome she will be to us :) Are we going to see her in White Sand first though, or elsewhere?

I've also been talking with a couple of friends about Ambition, who happens to be a Shard I love unconditionally just because of his?her? mandate. So I should ask - how tight-lipped do you intend to be with information about it? Can we prod for a little bit of trivia, or is it too early for that?

Brandon Sanderson

I'm going to be pretty tight-lipped for now. Let's at least let White Sand finish first--you will find her in there, though her touch on the story (directly) is light. She prefers to allow her personas to become the focus of attention.

General Reddit 2016 (Nov. 28, 2016)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

It's a little bit more complicated than that.  To quote Brandon: "try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned"

I was talking about Bavadin herself not the shard's many avatars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Karger said:
36 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

It's a little bit more complicated than that.  To quote Brandon: "try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned"

I was talking about Bavadin herself not the shard's many avatars.

Avatars are not mentioned in the WoB at all.  He refers to "personas."  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/11/2019 at 0:22 PM, Garfield Prime said:

I recently reread the Way of Kings after finishing my Mistborn reread and in Mistborn there is a chapter where Sazed is describing Trelagism where "They saw the stars as the Thousand Eyes of Trell watching them. The sun was the single, jealous eye of Trell’s brother, Nalt." The Interlude at the Purelake in the Way of Kings caught my attention when they described their god as "Nu Ralik was their god, but you always pretended that he wasn’t. Vun Makak—his younger, spiteful brother—had to be tricked into thinking you worshiped him, otherwise he’d get jealous." I also kinda remember a story where one moon was jealous of the others but I don't remember what book that was in. I just can't help but feel that these are all connected. (I do believe in the Autonomy=Trell theory)

Ayyy I asked the same question during probably my first week here, phrased almost the same!

On 5/11/2019 at 0:28 PM, Elegy said:

There's this weird little paraphrased WOB on it. Don't know how trustworthy:

It is a striking similarity though.

Got the same answer too...:P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/2/2019 at 4:05 AM, Nnatel said:

It doesn't really say anything, but taking the fact, that red means Shard that is corrupted by other, if I got this correctly, I believe it is quite safe to make some assumptions (as far any guessing can by safe in cosmere).

Remember that what Sazed showed Wax was a representation, not necessarily what is happening or the color that it actually is.

9 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Avatars are not mentioned in the WoB at all.  He refers to "personas."  

Right but the Vessel, Bavadin, is technically female. I think that's what they were referring to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Part of me still thinks that Trell is Odium. It seems possible that he could get driven away from Roshar and attempt to attack Scadrial. It does not seem like a coincidence that Hoid asks Harmony for help in Oathbringer letters, then shows up later in Mistborn Era 2 subtly helping Wax fight the Set (possibly just tools of Odium).

However, there is still strong evidence for Trell being Autonomy. But given this, I still think that Autonomy and Odium are related in some way. They could be allied in some capacity.

I am convinced that Harmony helps Hoid in some way that prompts Autonomy, Odium, or both to attack Scadrial. I would think that intervening with a conflict on another system would  be frowned upon by Autonomy and possibly be received as a threat (especially since Harmony is essentially as powerful as two shards).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4.06.2019 at 7:26 AM, RShara said:

Remember that what Sazed showed Wax was a representation, not necessarily what is happening or the color that it actually is.

I was actually referring to the end of the Bands of Mourning and the 'being' that kills Edwarn. 

 

But I found a WoB (again looking for something different, I always find interesting WoBs accidentally) that kind of destroys my theory. Maybe with some thinking I'll be able to save parts of it, but now it seems wrong in the part about Odium. 

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/117/#e1578

Questioner

I’m curious, are the red eyes in The Bands of Mourning also linked to Odium?

 

Brandon Sanderson

There’s a similar thing happening, but it may not be the link you expect.

And, @tepidbread, I don't feel like Odium is going to free himself, at least not fully, at the end of 5th book, so he won't be able to get to Scadrial. But it's just my personal feeling. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Nnatel said:

 I don't feel like Odium is going to free himself, at least not fully, at the end of 5th book, so he won't be able to get to Scadrial. But it's just my personal feeling. 

 

It has been a while since I read Oathbringer. I was under the impression that he was free from Braize due to his ability to influence events on Roshar. I need to reread Stormlight anyway sometime before Stormlight 4 releases.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally think that he's trapped in the solar system, not on a specific planet. Though he might have chosen one to be a home base while he was stuck. Frost says as much in his letter.

Quote

Rayse is captive. He cannot leave the system he now inhabits. His destructive potential is, therefore, inhibited.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, RShara said:

I personally think that he's trapped in the solar system, not on a specific planet. Though he might have chosen one to be a home base while he was stuck. Frost says as much in his letter.

He also says he is shackled and that this impairs what he can effect in the real world(paraphrasing from his first conversation with Dalinar) I don't think we have any real idea what this means.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/4/2019 at 1:26 AM, RShara said:
On 6/3/2019 at 4:08 PM, Scion of the Mists said:

Avatars are not mentioned in the WoB at all.  He refers to "personas."  

Right but the Vessel, Bavadin, is technically female. I think that's what they were referring to.

Right, I understand that.  I just thought that nitpicking new members about something that Brandon explicitly said not to get hung up on was uncalled for.  Brandon himself even uses masculine pronouns sometimes.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, so White Sand is the only part of the Cosmere I haven't read yet, so Trell the character and Autonomy are not familiar to me. But I'm still leaning on the Trell/Odium connection. The Coppermind confirms that Odium moves throughout the cosmere, and there is a discussion where Brandon discusses that Odium is aware of and plotting against Harmony:

Quote

Questioner

Is Harmony stronger than Odium?

Brandon Sanderson

Harmony has two shards. So by raw power he is stronger than Odium. Odium is much more warrior-minded and killing-minded, so I don't know if Harmony could actually beat him. But Odium is scared of Harmony.

Waygate Foundation Write-a-thon (Jan. 17, 2014)

Questioner

Is Odium planning to move against Harmony?

Brandon Sanderson

He is making plans.

Waygate Foundation Write-a-thon (Jan. 17, 2014)

Questioner

Is Odium aware of Harmony right now?

Brandon Sanderson

He definitely is.

Waygate Foundation Write-a-thon (Jan. 17, 2014)

Also, I feel like there is a perpedicularity in the Seran Ranges on Scadrial. If you read one of the broadsheet entries in either Shadows of Self or Bands of Mourning, the contributor mentions coming across a lake described very much like the one in Elantris. This is the same broadsheet entry that depicts the red and black masks of the Mawlish (which to me seem very much like stylized representations of the Parshendi). We know that Odium is having the voidspren patrolling the perpedicularities on Roshar. So here's part of what I've come up with: Odium may not be directly on Scadrial, but his Voidbringers are, and the Mawlish at some point in their history have encountered them, or other Parshendi, and it has influenced their masks. Or the broadsheet contributor saw a Voidbringer. On Roshar, the representations of the Shards in the Physical are the spren; on Scadrial, they are mists that condense into metals. So if you have Voidbringers (and their voidspren) that have worldhopped onto Scadrial through a perpendicularity that Odium controls, you could make a Hemalurgic spike from the voidspren once on Scadrial. And then you spike a kandra, and boom, Void-kandra that Odium has a direct link to on Scadrial. So there's the glowing-eyed being that kills Edwarn, which he even remarks upon as Trell's kandras.

But I also feel like the humans that fled to Roshar came from Scadrial, since the last trilogy of Mistborn is supposed to be space-agey, and Odium wants to destroy Harmony. Is there anywhere where Brandon has said where Mistborn and Stormlight are occurring at the same time? So perhaps Odium hasn't been tied down in the Rosharan system yet, and the Desolations haven't even started. Maybe the Parshendi are just living peacefully with Honor and Cultivation, Odium is floating through the cosmere and decides to destroy Harmony, attaches to the humans that then flee Scadrial, end up in Roshar, and then the Desolations start. I don't know how this timeline fits with anything Brandon has said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...