Long Game 55: Disquiet

[Furamirionind]

@A Joe in the Bush @Fifth Scholar 

Wait, I thought Joe was playing this game... Was I wrong?

Edit: I don't see him in the player list.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Furamirionind

[+Ark1002]

I put the vote on as a poke vote, but I don't know who else to poke, so I'm leaving my vote until I can think of someone else

[Furamirionind]

5 minutes ago, Ark1002 said:

I put the vote on as a poke vote, but I don't know who else to poke, so I'm leaving my vote until I can think of someone else

Who are you responding to?

[Mailliw73]

@Furamirionind @Fifth Scholar I don’t know where you got the rules for Coinshot 2 that you cited, Fura, but the ones in the Signups say that the Coinshot can still be targeted by the Assassin and Seeker 1 instead of the “certain roles” phrasing you used. Is that right, Fifth? 

@Randuir Concerning PMs vs Thread: We only will ever have PMs at night, which reduces the time we could actually have discussions. Limiting our discussions of suspicions to PMs also allows for much more manipulation to occur. So I will be discussing my thoughts in the thread as well as in PMs. 

[Furamirionind]

12 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

@Furamirionind @Fifth Scholar I don’t know where you got the rules for Coinshot 2 that you cited, Fura, but the ones in the Signups say that the Coinshot can still be targeted by the Assassin and Seeker 1 instead of the “certain roles” phrasing you used. Is that right, Fifth? 

Interesting. I was quoting the rules doc. I just skipped over the rules in-thread...

[+Ark1002]

55 minutes ago, Furamirionind said:

Who are you responding to?

Me

[Stick.]

Xinoehp I guess.

26 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

r I don’t know where you got the rules for Coinshot 2 that you cited, Fura, but the ones in the Signups say that the Coinshot can still be targeted by the Assassin and Seeker 1 instead of the “certain roles” phrasing you used. Is that right, Fifth? 

I just checked, and the rules in the google doc say the stuff about ‘certain roles’ while the rules listed in the post itself say: “Coinshot 2 (Active): Each Night, you may jump around the city, making yourself untargetable to most actions. The assassin and Seeker 1 may still target you.” 

[Mailliw73]

27 minutes ago, Furamirionind said:

Interesting. I was quoting the rules doc. I just skipped over the rules in-thread...

 

8 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Xinoehp I guess.

I just checked, and the rules in the google doc say the stuff about ‘certain roles’ while the rules listed in the post itself say: “Coinshot 2 (Active): Each Night, you may jump around the city, making yourself untargetable to most actions. The assassin and Seeker 1 may still target you.” 

Interesting. I guess we’ll see what Fifth has to say. 

The ball had been an utter disappointment. If Laila was the Head of her own House, she’d have thrown her own ball just to show the Penrod idiots how it should be done. No skaa, first of all. More eligible bachelors, second (though none could hold a candle to the Lord Ruler, she needed some gentlemen in her life). And less somber music, third. 

Laila woke up to gossip about the fight in the city last night. Apparently there had been thieves and Coinshots and police and special scissors Ann getting tangled up in different combinations. The story was different every time she heard it though, so she couldn’t be bothered too much by the distress. At least this gossip was real, unlike that Koloss garbage Lord Venture was spreading. 

When she went out for the day, she saw crowds of people accusing each other of being traitors to the king. Oh Lord Ruler! Laila knew people knew of her disdain for Elend, so she’d have to be careful not to voice it. No matter how much of a fop he was, she didn’t want more war in her home. De’Tess (what kind of a name was that?) was encouraging people to hide their thoughts, sharing them only in private letters one to another. Laila thought that was a ridiculous idea. How much more traitorous can you get? She pointed her finger at De’Tess, along with another, as she explained and unraveled De’Tess’s plan. 

[Fifth Scholar]

Oops, changed one and not the other. Yeah, assassin and first Seeker can still target Coinshot 2s. I need to make these things more uniform. 

@Furamirionind, Joe is still in the game. Why wouldn’t he be? 

[Furamirionind]

7 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

@Furamirionind, Joe is still in the game. Why wouldn’t he be? 

Is his omission from the player list intentional?

[Stick.]

4 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

Oops, changed one and not the other. Yeah, assassin and first Seeker can still target Coinshot 2s. I need to make these things more uniform. 

@Furamirionind, Joe is still in the game. Why wouldn’t he be? 

Ah, okay. 

He's not listed in the player list

ninja'd

Edited May 17, 2019 by _Stick_
ninjad

[DeTess]

Okay, people seem to be misunderstanding the idea I presented, or at least seem to think I meant something more extreme than I did. I never said that we should not share anything in the thread, but there's definitely a middle ground between 'sharing top ten lists of people you think most suspicious' and 'just voting without saying anything'. I also never said I believed that idea was something that everyone needed to put into practice. I do admit I'd missed how restricted PM's would be this game, but the overall point stands. Its quite possible to have a meaningful lynch discussion without giving the mistborn all the tools they need to track down the remainder of the elims, but I don't know whether its worth the additional loss of information whenever someone dies, which is why I brought it forward as a point of discussion.

The fact that a bunch of people instead seem to be using it as a D1 lynch excuse without commenting on why it might be a good or bad idea is interesting, to put it mildly. In particular, I expected a lot better from Mailliw. Accusing people off 'treason' because they're trying to figure out how best to approach a non-standard game setup is very unproductive. Is definitely not going to help people speak their mind.

 

[Mailliw73]

De’Tess’s finger pointed right back at Laila. How silly he/she(Rand, what gender is De’Tess?) looked, pointing right back at her opposition. Laila realized she also was just beginning to look silly with her own hand in the air, so she brought it down and raised a smile instead. She Rioted De’Tess gently to bring about happier feelings. 

“Come now,” Laila said. “I wanted to make sure you saw the holes in your proposition. Of course we don’t have to kill you for it. You quickly saw reason and brought out the strongest points, as a loyal strategic mind would.” Laila didn’t think De’Tess was actually a rebel, but as she thought about it, she recognized her own paranoia growing. What if De’Tess was? No. She would not be paranoid. She would continue to be proper and stately. 

With a final smile and a small wink to the crowd, Laila left, feeling dirty from the amount of skaa she had been around. She returned to her manor to bathe and sent out a couple of servants to keep an ear on the proceedings and report back to her. A bath was always nice after mingling with skaa. She smiled, genuine this time. 

[Amanuensis]

Just posting to say that I didn't realize the game started already XD going to read through everything now and get back to you all hopefully shortly.

[Furamirionind]

7 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

“I wanted to make sure you saw the holes in your proposition. Of course we don’t have to kill you for it. You quickly saw reason and brought out the strongest points, as a loyal strategic mind would.”

Emphasis mine.
OK... I just hear DaBackpack and Mikey whispering in my head like a devil and angel while reading these posts...

You imply through your retraction of your vote and the bolded sentence, that your vote was comparable to a poke vote? The bolded sentence makes it sound like you never thought it was truly a good reason to vote on Rand in the first place.

58 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

De’Tess (what kind of a name was that?) was encouraging people to hide their thoughts, sharing them only in private letters one to another. Laila thought that was a ridiculous idea. How much more traitorous can you get? She pointed her finger at De’Tess, along with another, as she explained and unraveled De’Tess’s plan.

Forgive me, but this really doesn't sound like a poke vote. It also sounds like a pretty strange reason to poke someone. (poking someone who is promoting less free info, for the sake of making them rephrase their idea in a very NIA way)

The italicized sentence above isn't truly correct. Randuir really only rephrased what he said before and added he didn't realize PMs were night only. This is 100% NIA as a villager would do this, as would an elim/Mistborn who doesn't want to get lynched or who misread the rules.  Some creative liberties must be granted to your(Maill's) wording of course, but still...

Conclusion? Maill, this seems like some serious backpedaling to me.

[Mailliw73]

Okay, sorry, let me clarify. In a doc a few games ago, I set a goal to use mostly RP in a coming game and this is that one for me, so a lot of what I say will be filtered through that lens. I’ll do better to keep what I mean clear from now on though. The original post has Laila’s own thoughts about De’Tess(Rand). The second has what she’d say out loud to the crowd, not wanting to be killed herself and not wanting to provoke someone she has some suspicions towards, slight though they may be.

[Amanuensis]

6 hours ago, STINK said:

Jumae II is not one for length. It is why he never uses the letter 'm', except for where he has to within his identifier. It also describes the length of this post, which should not be long. Or Average. He also switches up his PoV now and again, because why not?

I feel saddened by the loss of private day talking, but will endeavour to keep active in the next 48 (or so) hours. 

Also, I have just realised that I can no longer vote for anyone whose identifier contains the accursed letter. Oh well.

I'm really regretting not changing back into Amanuensis right now.

4 hours ago, Cadmium Compounder said:

Oh Good, "Cadmium, CadCom, and Cadmium Compounder" All have M's  So That's one person who won't vote for me. Unless they just vote for Cad, or CadCo

Anyway, The main thought I have on the game right now is that of the voting mechanic where, if Elend is Lynched, the Elims win. It's already been discussed that a fair amount of voting activity is needed to prevent that. However, I also believe that an elim hammer would be a risky strategy, unless they can confirm that all of them will be able to be on at X:59, the minute before rollover, because when I'm able to be online at rollover time, I've noticed that there are usually also a few villagers, so pulling an elim hammer could potentially put them all at risk. 

This is also a call out to anyone who is available, please be online near the end of the cycle, to help prevent an elim hammer. Anyway, we're about 12 hours in, and We have an interesting vote count so far. 

HemHead(1) Steel
Ark (1) Araris
Randuir (1) Ark
Lumgol (1) Fura
CadCom (1) Bard
Straw (1) HemHead
Straw (1) Stick
Xinoehp (1) Stick 

Sidenote, Either I missed it, or it's not there, @Fifth Scholar, Could you confirm when rollover will occur?

I don't want to have 10 votes sperad across everyone, then have the elims march in and have a d1 hammer, so I think it's about time to start voting on people already on the list. If the list gets much bigger, it will be spread very thin across many people, instead of converging on just a few. I also don't have any suspicions about really anyone at this point. Randuir. Call it a gut feeling. 

The last paragraph in particular feels elim-y to me. To be more specific, the last sentence, "Call it a gut feeling." seems to be a retroactive explanation, as if he decided who to vote for before finding a reason. I think more often than not, a villager would lead into the vote with their reasoning. Thus I'm going to lay my vote on CadCom for now.

3 hours ago, Rathmaskal said:

OK, glad other people noticed the potential for a D1 hammer by the elim team...so I shouldn't need to yell at people to get a train going.  Given the timing, I should be around for most rollovers to help deter that.  First thoughts, I'm torn on Randuir's strategy.  While I understand the basics of the idea, making sure the entirety of the village is able to analyze your analysis and suspicions can't really be a bad thing.  With Rand already having 2 votes, I'm not sure if I want to really get the bandwagon going.  Seems kind of foolish to punish someone for spitballing a good deal.

For now, I think Adavantos hasn't checked in yet?

Hello Rath. How's it hanging?

[STINK]

21 minutes ago, Adavantos said:

I'm really regretting not changing back into Amanuensis right now.

I do not quite know who this person you refer to is, but I appreciate that you are Adavantos. It is a good identifier, for hopefully a good eco-system.

[CadCom]

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, STINK said:

eco-system.

Hmmmmmmmm...

[Stick.]

45 minutes ago, Adavantos said:

The last paragraph in particular feels elim-y to me. To be more specific, the last sentence, "Call it a gut feeling." seems to be a retroactive explanation, as if he decided who to vote for before finding a reason. I think more often than not, a villager would lead into the vote with their reasoning. Thus I'm going to lay my vote on CadCom for now.

I get where you’re coming from, but he did say he doesn’t have any suspicions at this point and is choosing from players with a vote against them. So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

49 minutes ago, Adavantos said:

I'm really regretting not changing back into Amanuensis right now.

5 hours ago, Cadmium Compounder said:

I didn’t realise this was you. *faceplam*

Oo, ninjad by CadCom. Nothing to say in response to the vote @Cadmium Compounder?

[Rathmaskal]

I WILL get a vote back on this evening when I get home.  Since there are no other votes on Adavantos, I don't see any need to leave my vote sitting there now that we've received a check in.  Also, wow, for some reason I thought we were already in the second 24 hours.  But nope, we have another full day.  (not sure why I would have thought that since it's still mostly been everyone just checking in)

54 minutes ago, Adavantos said:

Hello Rath. How's it hanging?

Life is wonderful.

[Lumgol]

Aname stared back at the forming line, with seemingly half of Luthadel pining for her scissors. Although her mood had been lightened by the fact that she now possessed a beautiful, cutting-edge (get it?) weapon, her head was now returning to a dull thump. This couldn't be. The scissors were meant to be hers. Her scissors. Not everyone's scissors. Otherwise, how could Aname ever be special? 

She stormed away in a huff, almost forgetting to check for her owl. She cautiously peeked into the back room of the shop, dismayed at the fact that Heer Kilyal had flown away somewhere. ( @Coop772 poke poke)

- - -

Rand. Although I see your logic here, and you've stated in your defense that you forgot about the fact that PM's are night only, it's just not sitting very well with me right now. This could be because in previous games (notably QF37), you seemed very concerned about PM safety and revealing relatively little information in them, and now you're advocating for us to rely heavily on PM's to share our trusts and suspicions?

Personally, I think that although it is important to not let the Unstable Mistborn kill the elims too fast, one way in which we can try to avert this by focusing more on trying to eliminate the Unstable Mistborn. As important as finding and killing the elims is, killing the Mistborn won't end the game for the village like killing the elims but letting the Mistborn survive will. Am I saying we should ignore our suspicions for the elims? Absolutely not. If there's any players who are clearly suspected, we should definitely say so and keep an eye on them, and lynch them unless there's only 1 or 2 elims left and the Mistborn are still alive. 

I would like to reiterate and agree with the fact that we should definitely try to accumulate more votes on at least one player than the supposed number of elims. My best guess would be either 3 or 4 elims, probably 4 (including Senn Conrad and the Assassin). 4 elims follows the 50% rule most closely, but the number of elims might have been lowered to 3 because of the 2 Mistborn and any secret roles that might exist. My gut says 4 is more likely, and we have a bit over 20 players so 4 elims + 2 neutral serial-killer type people out of... 22? players seems reasonable.

[Araris Valerian]

@Lumgol How do you propose we specifically search for Mistborn as opposed to the eliminators? I think right now all we can really do is see who isn't village. Lumgol.

[STINK]

26 minutes ago, Cadmium Compounder said:

Hmmmmmmmm...

One does not accidentally write that which they swore not to write, Sir Pounder.

[Lumgol]

12 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

@Lumgol How do you propose we specifically search for Mistborn as opposed to the eliminators? I think right now all we can really do is see who isn't village. Lumgol.

I'm not sure. Role scanning or other role based methods might work, but other than that, I haven't played many games with this kind of faction so I'm unfamiliar with how those players might think or act. Regardless, I was merely proposing an alternate method to Randuir's suggestion of keeping our trusts and suspicions mostly in PM's, and acting on the assumption that avoiding a Mistborn win by not letting them quickly kill the elims to end the game is a priority. I still think that killing anyone who isn't village, especially early on in the game, needs to be prioritized over killing the elims too quickly - which was another part of why Rand's post felt off to me.