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"Remember what you're going to do, Needa," Mommy said. She looked over Needa one last time. "Your buttons don't line up."

Needa nodded as she rebuttoned her coat. Today Mommy wanted them to seem lower noble, so she had to look the part, coat, dress, and all. Nothing like those skaa rags yesterday, though not the fanciest she had ever worn. Once she finished, she took Mommy's hand and exited the door.

They walked through the streets of Luthadel, passing by a few people. Luthadel was quieter these days, with the threat of multiple armies circling around them and the possibility of siege on the horizon. At least, that was what Mommy said. Needa waved at the merchants and lower nobles she recognized, taking careful note of who smiled and waved back, and who just kept going. Even if these people weren't part of the mission yet, she still felt that Mommy would be proud if she practiced.

After going for a few blocks, they reached their location: Reap What You Sew. The door was closed, and one of the windows was broken.

"That's Lerdar's work alright. Never had a sense of subtlety, did he," Mommy muttered, so quiet Needa could barely hear her. More loudly, she said, "Needa, you know what to do."

Needa nodded and walked up to the door.

@Snipexe, anyone inside? :)

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It was a long walk to the shop to buy her scissors. It almost felt like it took days. Age was not kind to Era. Her bones felt more frail, her muscles feeble. At least her mind was sharp.

Something had obviously gone wrong at the shop before she'd arrived. Era shrugged off the strange feeling with a grumble. "None of my business what they do with their own business."

Era saw a small child near the entrance of the shop. She sighed. Children. Who knew what kind of mischief the child would get into? Parents these days. They didn't watch their kids, nor did they care if they caused problems.

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46 minutes ago, Arraenae said:

"Remember what you're going to do, Needa," Mommy said. She looked over Needa one last time. "Your buttons don't line up."

Needa nodded as she rebuttoned her coat. Today Mommy wanted them to seem lower noble, so she had to look the part, coat, dress, and all. Nothing like those skaa rags yesterday, though not the fanciest she had ever worn. Once she finished, she took Mommy's hand and exited the door.

They walked through the streets of Luthadel, passing by a few people. Luthadel was quieter these days, with the threat of multiple armies circling around them and the possibility of siege on the horizon. At least, that was what Mommy said. Needa waved at the merchants and lower nobles she recognized, taking careful note of who smiled and waved back, and who just kept going. Even if these people weren't part of the mission yet, she still felt that Mommy would be proud if she practiced.

After going for a few blocks, they reached their location: Reap What You Sew. The door was closed, and one of the windows was broken.

"That's Lerdar's work alright. Never had a sense of subtlety, did he," Mommy muttered, so quiet Needa could barely hear her. More loudly, she said, "Needa, you know what to do."

Needa nodded and walked up to the door.

@Snipexe, anyone inside? :)

One sec, I have to figure out some timeline stuff. I think @xinoehp512's Dedne will be in there, but he might be following us to the meeting. Assuming this is afterward, then Snip will for sure be there, but if not, then Dedne may be there instead.

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Alright, this will be fun.
This game definitely requires some time looking at the rules though.

First thoughts: (TL;DR: Read the part on Zane/Vin)

Spoiler

 

Basic Roles:

 

Spoiler

 

Lurcher 1 (Passive):
You are immune to all Night kills.

A good role. Prevent's kills.

Lurcher 2 (Active):
Each Night, you may defend another player against all Night kills.

Standard Lurcher role. Also very good.

Coinshot 1 (Active):
Each Night, you may kill a player. This role is held only by the Mistborn.

I will address this with the Mistborn

Tineye 1 (Passive):
While you are alive, PMs are open at Night only.

Obviously my favorite role. : P

Thug 2 (Passive):
You possess an extra life.

Another way to stop Night Kills, but also stops lynches.

Soother 1 (Active):
Each Day, you may remove a player’s vote.

Pretty standard vote manip.

Soother 2 (Active):
Each Night, you may roleblock one player. You may not target the same player two nights in a row.

Standard roleblock

Rioter 1 (Active):
Each Day, you may move a player’s vote.

Another standard vote mainp

Rioter 2 (Active):
At Night, you can redirect one player’s action.

Standard redirect

Seeker 1 (Active):
Each Night, you may target a player and learn which metals they burned.

The easier of the 2 Seeker roles to play, as you actually know who you are gaining info on. However this still requires a decent amount of effort.

Seeker 2 (Active):
Each Night, you may target a player and learn which metals targeted that player. You will not learn who targeted them with the abilities. The user self-targeting will show up to the scan, but any passive abilities will not.

This role starts off pretty pointless, and gets better the farther into the game you get I think. The seeker roles are possibly the hardest ones to play well this game, as they require you to try and gain as much info in PMs as possible, so you can use that info to analyse your scans.

Smoker 2 (Active):
Each Night, may protect a player of their choice from Seekers, Soothers and Rioters.

So basically this reads, "Each night, you may prevent all vote manip, roleblocks, redirects, and any metal detecting on this player".
I specify this, as on my first read through I thought this might be the worst role, but actually it does quite a lot.  This does have the same problem standard Smoking has where when used on someone, investigative roles can't do their job as well.  However, it should be easier to detect this, as if an active player is not burning any metals, they are either being smoked, or have a passive role.

 

 

Regular Roles that I personally consider special ones:

Spoiler

 

Coinshot 2 (Active):
Each Night, you may jump around the city, making yourself untargetable to most actions. Certain roles may still target you.

"Certain roles may still target you"? I have no idea how good/bad this role is as we don't know how much this actually blocks.

 

Tineye 2 (Passive):
Each Day, you learn the role of the player you voted on.

I have loved this style of role since LG53. The problem with it in this game, is it encourages players with this ability to vote on people who are not going to die to the lynch. This spreads the vote out, making it more possible for an elim hammer/win.

Due to this, as well as a couple other things, I already have a couple theories about this role, which I unfortunately cannot share on D1.

 

Thug 1 (Active):
Each Night, you may target a player to protect. If that player is attacked, you attack the killer, prevent the attack, and are injured, unable to perform further actions. You may not self-target.

Personally I think this is the best role in this game. Basically you can stop a kill once, but you also get to attack the killer, which will either be Zane or an elim. If three people are ever attacked in one night, this is probably the reason, and if 2 of the survived, there is a decent chance that the one that wasn't protected is Zane. The Thug should definitely claim if that happens.  This is the only role I see that the village can use to kill other than the lynch.

THIS ROLE SHOULD NEVER EVER ROLECLAIM!!! (Before they use their action successfully anyway)

 

Smoker 1 (Active):
Each Day, you may choose two players; their votes cannot be manipulated.

This role will be really good in the late game with Zane being able to Soothe votes. Especially if the elims have vote manip.

 

 

Special Roles:

 

Spoiler


Elend Venture:
A village safe role played by the GM. If Elend is lynched, Lekal’s Subordinates win immediately. Completely untargetable.

Umm, better make sure we don't have low vote counts. If an elim hammer is ever possible, they just win the game on the spot.

 

The Retired Hazekiller:
Now publicly exposed, this Hazekiller may teach up to three people the other half of their Allomantic abilities. If a player who holds multiple powers is targeted, the new power will be chosen at random from among the metals they have access to.

This is a cool role. I think the Hazekiller knew what role they granted the person in LG41. If that is true here, this role could be used as a way to catch a Mistborn in a lie. (At least, there is a 75% chance to catch a lie.)
This might also work as a psudo-rolescan.

Regardless, this role should really only be used on trusted players due to just how good it is.

 

The Librarian:
Has already survived one of these threats, you know? The Hazekiller has taught him both Seeker 1 and 2.

This is an amazing role. The most complicated this game I think. I love it so much!!!

 

Count Senn Conrad III:
Not truly dead in the first conflict in Luthadel, this count has deserted Cett for Lekal. Holds both Lurcher 1 and Lurcher 2.

That is a lot of protection power in one person...

 

The Assassin:
This Subordinate may, once per game, modify the faction kill to an unblockable, unredirectable, infinite-power kill.

I don't think there is anything really to say here. But no one is 100% safe. Chances are it will only be used the the elims think they need to though.

 

Zane:
The main threat as Mistborn. With replenished vials of metal, holds the powers of Coinshot 1, Thug 2, Soother 1 and 2, Seeker 1, and Smoker 2. May use up to two abilities per cycle.

Night kill, extra life, Roleblock, Soother, Can see what metals we use, Can stop a player from being subject to vote manip, roleblocks, redirects, and Seekers.

That is a lot of abilities. Zane will be hard to find as they will likely be consistently Smoking themselves so that people don't see all the stuff they do, and they are more valuable than Vin due to the kill. Because of this, if they are scanned, they will basically be forced to claim a passive role. This would likely be the easiest way for them to get caught.

A village circle of Hazekiller, Librarian/Seeker roles would very possibly be able to catch out a Mistborn on pure mechanics. If we don't get that however, we will likely have to rely more on player analysis.

 

Vin:
While still confused, Vin has committed to Zane fully now, and tests powers he sees little use for. Every cycle, Vin will receive at random Tineye 1 or 2, Lurcher 1, Thug 1, Seeker 2 or Smoker 1.

Abilities for sure: Immune to night kills, Protect/Attack thug ability.
Possible Abilities: Open PMs / Role cop -- Denying vote manip / See metals targeting targeted player.

This is probably the most interesting role to me in this game as Vin's playstyle will likely dramatically change depending on what abilities they get.  Thug 1 would guarantee them an attack on an elim, as well as knowing that identity in case they don't die. However, once used up, Vin can't use her role cop, anti-vote-manip, or Seeker abilities.

 

 

 

 

Questions for @Fifth Scholar:

Spoiler

1. Does the write up differentiate between elim night kills and SK ones?

2. If a player survives a night kill, does the writeup specify how?
    2a. If it does specify how, does it just say something like "A lurcher was responsible" or "The role Lurcher 2 was responsible"?

3. Can a player that has multiple active abilities use more than one of them per turn? (For instance, if a player had both Seeker roles, could they use both of them?)
     3a. If no, if a player had both Smoker roles, could they use both of them in the same cycle?)

3. If I was a Lurcher 2 for instance, and I was targeted by a Smoker 2, and I targeted Mailliw, who was also targeted by a Seeker 2, would that Seeker see that Mailliw was being targeted by a Lurcher? (xD complicated scenario)

4a. For the Coinshot 2, are the roles that are able to target a Coinshot 2 told that in their GMPMs?
4b. Are the Coinshot's told what roles can target them?
4c. Is the clause "Certain roles may still target you" just put in there to allow roleblockers to be able to roleblock them?

5. Is the Hazekiller told what power they grant the player?

6. What would happen if a Hazekiller targeted someone who has both Allomantic abilities already?

7. Can a non-Zane/Vin player start the game with multiple Allomantic abilities?

8. Does Thug 1 attacking someone count as a "Night Kill"?

This is when I really need a preview button. I have no clue how this post will look once I post it... 

There are some more things I could say, but I have been working on this post for... about 2-3 hours now, and I am getting a bit tired of working on it. So I will just post it now, and if I have any further thoughts later, I will post those then.


Ah, people are doing poke votes now? let's see...
Lumgol! You were saying many things before the game about how you wanted to be Vin. I would have expected you to address that by now.

Lumgol

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Alright. I expect to be on before rollover most cycles, so I'll say now that I intend to move my vote to the leading candidate at the end of each cycle to prevent a lynch on Elend/Fifth - we don't want another LG15a. I recommend others do the same if it's convenient for them to be on at that time.

We haven't heard from CadCom yet - I was considering putting a joke vote on Steel, but I assume there will be enough paranoia around him this game that it would probably be unfair of me to add to it, even as a joke.

I mostly agree with Fura's analysis. I think this game is role madness, though I can't remember that being confirmed for certain, so I'm kind of curious about how this is balanced. With the sudden-death-by-lynch option this game, I can't see the Elims having much vote manip power. I think some kind of protect role, probably Senn Conrad, is in the Elims, to protect from Zane (Thug 2 is unlikely, though, since that can often delay the lynch and stall conversation). A Tineye 1 Elim would be entirely possible, depending how troll-ish Fifth was feeling. There's probably a scanner of some sort, and a Smoker is plausible, but possibly not, since there's not really a role that would be all that incriminating for the Elims to be holding.

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10 minutes ago, Young Bard said:

I mostly agree with Fura's analysis. I think this game is role madness, though I can't remember that being confirmed for certain, so I'm kind of curious about how this is balanced. With the sudden-death-by-lynch option this game, I can't see the Elims having much vote manip power. I think some kind of protect role, probably Senn Conrad, is in the Elims, to protect from Zane (Thug 2 is unlikely, though, since that can often delay the lynch and stall conversation). A Tineye 1 Elim would be entirely possible, depending how troll-ish Fifth was feeling. There's probably a scanner of some sort, and a Smoker is plausible, but possibly not, since there's not really a role that would be all that incriminating for the Elims to be holding.

Emphasis mine. Is there something you don't agree with in my analysis? 

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1 minute ago, Furamirionind said:

Emphasis mine. Is there something you don't agree with in my analysis? 

Hmmm... I think that's just me not talking in definites, I think. :P You say that the Thug 1 shouldn't claim under almost any circumstances, something I basically agree with - I'd probably extend that to a couple other roles like Tineye 1 and Rioter 1, since the existence of vote manipulator can be a strong disincentive for the Elims to bandwagon on Elend at the end of the cycle even when they have the numbers. That said, I think I'm increasingly becoming a stingy roleclaimer compared with the meta at the moment.

I'm not sure why you say that Vin getting Thug 1 could guarantee an Elim death? You seem to assume they'll know the Elim target to target that player, which is a pretty big assumption. And assuming Zane will pretend to have a passive role is a pretty big IKYK (they could easily 'prove' one of the many active abilities they have if they wanted to, and after that statement it might garner less suspicion).

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12 minutes ago, Young Bard said:

I'm not sure why you say that Vin getting Thug 1 could guarantee an Elim death? You seem to assume they'll know the Elim target to target that player, which is a pretty big assumption.

Ah, what I meant was that as the Mistborn just want to kill elims, if they do hit someone with Thug 1, it will be an elim. Vs them killing people based on suspicions where it is definitely not a 100% chance of success.

12 minutes ago, Young Bard said:

And assuming Zane will pretend to have a passive role is a pretty big IKYK (they could easily 'prove' one of the many active abilities they have if they wanted to, and after that statement it might garner less suspicion).

Yes it is an IKYK, isn't it. : )

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2 hours ago, Furamirionind said:

This is a cool role. I think the Hazekiller knew what role they granted the person in LG41. If that is true here, this role could be used as a way to catch a Mistborn in a lie. (At least, there is a 75% chance to catch a lie.)

Yes it is an IKYK, isn't it. : )

The only way the Hazekiller catches Zane is if the power granted is Coinshot 2. A complete failure to grant a role(I'm assuming this is what happens if a player with both halves is targeted) suggests the target is a Mistborn, Sean Conrad, or the Librarian, which is a decent chance that the recipient is evil. All of the other Mistborn roles are something a villager could have.

If Zane gets targeted by a Seeker 1, it will be difficult for him to claim anything other than a passive role.

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3 hours ago, Furamirionind said:

1. Does the write up differentiate between elim night kills and SK ones?

2. If a player survives a night kill, does the writeup specify how?
    2a. If it does specify how, does it just say something like "A lurcher was responsible" or "The role Lurcher 2 was responsible"?

3. Can a player that has multiple active abilities use more than one of them per turn? (For instance, if a player had both Seeker roles, could they use both of them?)
     3a. If no, if a player had both Smoker roles, could they use both of them in the same cycle?)

3. If I was a Lurcher 2 for instance, and I was targeted by a Smoker 2, and I targeted Mailliw, who was also targeted by a Seeker 2, would that Seeker see that Mailliw was being targeted by a Lurcher? (xD complicated scenario)

4a. For the Coinshot 2, are the roles that are able to target a Coinshot 2 told that in their GMPMs?
4b. Are the Coinshot's told what roles can target them?
4c. Is the clause "Certain roles may still target you" just put in there to allow roleblockers to be able to roleblock them?

5. Is the Hazekiller told what power they grant the player?

6. What would happen if a Hazekiller targeted someone who has both Allomantic abilities already?

7. Can a non-Zane/Vin player start the game with multiple Allomantic abilities?

8. Does Thug 1 attacking someone count as a "Night Kill"?

1. PAFO. 

2. Nope! And who says I’m specifying who gets attacked in the writeup if they survive? :P 

2a. By extension, nope. :D 

3. *head spins* Umm...no, I think. :P 

4a-c. PAFO, PAFO, PAFO. 

5. Perhaps. 

6. PAFO.

7. PAFO. 

8. For the purposes of what? Lurchers? Yes. 

Hope that was helpful. :P 

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A single vote does not bother Makail. He has received criticism before, as any artist does. Don't ask about the critics.

Straw. The weakest and least architecturally minded pig made his house from straw. True, we have sticks too, but they are better than straw. Also, straw burns more easily than sticks. I believe I have made my case clear.

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@Araris Valerian, if you vote on ark wasn't a poke vote, what was it motivated by? Just the fact that you wanted to lynch somebody and didn't particularly care who?

I mostly agree with Fura's role analysis (and I'm thankful for that, as it saves me from having to do something similar while I don't really have the time for it). However, I would like to point out that certain roles, such as smoker 2, rioter 1 and soother 1 might decide to abstain from using their roles in the opening stages of the game to avoid fouling up investigative roles and keep the elims guessing at the amount of vote manip available respectively.

Now, I've got a bit of a point of discussion that I'd like to hear people's stances on. Normally I'm all for always being open with your analysis and sharing all your suspicions with the thread. However, because the village loses if all the elims get caught before the unstable mistborn are brought down, a case could be made for keeping suspicions outside of your voting decisions more under wraps, and playing the elim-hunting game more in PM's. I'm not sure which way I lean here, and I'm curious what the opinions of other people are.

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4 minutes ago, Straw said:

I believe that we have not heard from Stick yet.

Hey Straw. Do you have any thoughts on the game so far? Any comments on Fura's role analysis?

EDIT: So I got notified for Straw's post, but not Rand's, so I almost missed it. I'm leaning against Rand's idea - if it looks like Zane is knocking off all the primary candidates for being an Elim, then it's quite possible they'll expose themselves in the process, either by the Thug 1 role if there is one or by leaving themselves (and Vin) under suspicion as Zane knocks out the competition for the lynch. Holding our suspicions closer to our chest will make it that much harder to analyse for both the Eliminators and the Mistborn.

Edited by Young Bard
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Jumae II is not one for length. It is why he never uses the letter 'm', except for where he has to within his identifier. It also describes the length of this post, which should not be long. Or Average. He also switches up his PoV now and again, because why not?

I feel saddened by the loss of private day talking, but will endeavour to keep active in the next 48 (or so) hours. 

Also, I have just realised that I can no longer vote for anyone whose identifier contains the accursed letter. Oh well.

 

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Nice.

9 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

so, it appears I’m not a mistborn today :(stupid RNG. Be warned Zane and Vin, you have a reputation to live up to, and I know how you think. I’ll still RP as crazy Zane though. Guess I’ll get the poke votes started with hemalurgic headshot . You were evil last time, and as I remember it, I waited entirely too long to kill you. Clearly there are no logical fallacies in rectifying that fact in the rerun. 

Steel: *claims to not have the same evil role he did last time*

Also Steel: *votes on HH based on their evil role last time*

Steel: 

9 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

Clearly there are no logical fallacies in rectifying that fact in the rerun.

So does this apply to you too? :P 

 

6 hours ago, Furamirionind said:

"Certain roles may still target you"? I have no idea how good/bad this role is as we don't know how much this actually blocks.

Maybe it's talking about secret roles? Did the last game have any of those?

6 hours ago, Furamirionind said:

Umm, better make sure we don't have low vote counts. If an elim hammer is ever possible, they just win the game on the spot.

Yeah, unfortunately. We'll need to make sure we have a solid lynch today. Would be great if we could all just agree on one inactive player by the end of the day - if there is one at all. Heh, can you imagine how rad it would be if the elims pull a last minute hammer D1 and win? xD

1 hour ago, Randuir said:

Normally I'm all for always being open with your analysis and sharing all your suspicions with the thread. However, because the village loses if all the elims get caught before the unstable mistborn are brought down, a case could be made for keeping suspicions outside of your voting decisions more under wraps, and playing the elim-hunting game more in PM's. I'm not sure which way I lean here, and I'm curious what the opinions of other people are.

I was thinking about that too...It's good idea, but discussing our suspicions in PMs rather than in-thread would make it harder to get enough votes on the sus player when needed due to the restricted number of people involved in the discussion, and may open a window for the elims to pull their hammer? It's not like the village has any kill roles to use, apart from Thug1.(Right? Or am I forgetting something?) In the end, we'll have to resort to the thread cuz the lynch is the only way we can get rid of the elims. Plus, you never know if you're trusting the right person when it comes to PMs. All things considered, I think it's still worth trying out - we don't wanna hand the mistborn their victory. I have a question though, (and I apologise if it's already been addressed to in the past): what are the restrictions on PMs apart from the requirement of Tineye1? Is there a maximum number of PMs we can create per cycle? Are we allowed to make group PMs? etc. 

1 hour ago, Straw said:

I believe that we have not heard from Stick yet.

Now you have :P

Now for a vote...hmmmmmm. 

Xinoehp *Pokes*:P

 

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8 hours ago, Snipexe said:

One sec, I have to figure out some timeline stuff. I think @xinoehp512's Dedne will be in there, but he might be following us to the meeting. Assuming this is afterward, then Snip will for sure be there, but if not, then Dedne may be there instead.

Someone darted out of the alley and poked Dedne, then scurried back the way they had come.

He stared in the direction they'd gone and debated following them for a second, then turned and started following his employer again.

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1 hour ago, STINK said:

Also, I have just realized that I can no longer vote for anyone whose identifier contains the accursed letter. Oh well.

Oh Good, "Cadmium, CadCom, and Cadmium Compounder" All have M's  So That's one person who won't vote for me. Unless they just vote for Cad, or CadCo

Anyway, The main thought I have on the game right now is that of the voting mechanic where, if Elend is Lynched, the Elims win. It's already been discussed that a fair amount of voting activity is needed to prevent that. However, I also believe that an elim hammer would be a risky strategy, unless they can confirm that all of them will be able to be on at X:59, the minute before rollover, because when I'm able to be online at rollover time, I've noticed that there are usually also a few villagers, so pulling an elim hammer could potentially put them all at risk. 

This is also a call out to anyone who is available, please be online near the end of the cycle, to help prevent an elim hammer. Anyway, we're about 12 hours in, and We have an interesting vote count so far. 

HemHead(1) Steel
Ark (1) Araris
Randuir (1) Ark
Lumgol (1) Fura
CadCom (1) Bard
Straw (1) HemHead
Straw (1) Stick
Xinoehp (1) Stick 

Sidenote, Either I missed it, or it's not there, @Fifth Scholar, Could you confirm when rollover will occur?

I don't want to have 10 votes sperad across everyone, then have the elims march in and have a d1 hammer, so I think it's about time to start voting on people already on the list. If the list gets much bigger, it will be spread very thin across many people, instead of converging on just a few. I also don't have any suspicions about really anyone at this point. Randuir. Call it a gut feeling. 

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1 hour ago, _Stick_ said:

Is there a maximum number of PMs we can create per cycle? Are we allowed to make group PMs? etc. 

No on both counts. Make as many one-on-one PMs as you like. 

Quote

Either I missed it, or it’s not there. Could you confirm when rollover will occur?

Oops, sorry about that. Should be fixed now.

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OK, glad other people noticed the potential for a D1 hammer by the elim team...so I shouldn't need to yell at people to get a train going.  Given the timing, I should be around for most rollovers to help deter that.  First thoughts, I'm torn on Randuir's strategy.  While I understand the basics of the idea, making sure the entirety of the village is able to analyze your analysis and suspicions can't really be a bad thing.  With Rand already having 2 votes, I'm not sure if I want to really get the bandwagon going.  Seems kind of foolish to punish someone for spitballing a good deal.

For now, I think Adavantos hasn't checked in yet?

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