Turin Turambar

I don't get the ending.

29 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

finally finished reading the whole series. Yay! Certain things bothered me about end of the series though.

1) How does Rand light his pipe at the very end.

2) How do Moridin and Rand switch bodies.

 

Edited by Turin Turambar
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- Good question. Nobody knows for sure. My theory is that Rand can manipulate the Pattern directly and caused the tabacco to combust.

- It was explained at some point, I don't remember it myself but my dad assures me it was.

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Funnily enough, what you're concerned about are 2 of 3 things Brandon is not allowed to answer about the end of the series, so it really is up to interpretation.

As for my explanation of Rand and Moridin doing the whole body switch thing: The 2 became linked after their Balefire streams cross in Shadar Logoth (End of Crown of Swords), allowing for a deep connection between the two, as showcased via the fact that Rand becomes able to tap the True Power in book 12 (whether or not Moridin intentionally let Rand access it to kill Semirhage, cementing his position as Nae'blis, is a whole other discussion) and the 2 are showcased being able to enter each other's Dream Shards (Personal Tel'Aran'Rhiod) which it is implied requires a great deal of connection. Not to mention, both are connected to Callandor, combining the One Power and the True Power to reseal the Bore, which if anything, only deepened their connection. As for how the exact way their psyches switch, I'm drawing a blank, but I bet it involves Tel'Aran'Rhiod.

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Shoot, I recently saw a WoB about your second question, but can't find it now.  From what I recall, Rand and Moridin's souls were linked since they crossed balefire streams.  At the end of the book, the soul that wanted to live, Rand's went to the body that would live, Moridin's, and the soul that wanted to die, Moridin's, went to the body that would die, Rand's. 

It also mentioned your first question about the pipe.  But he just said that Robert Jordan had already written that part, it's straight from him.  And RJ didn't leave any notes about how or why Rand was able to.  I agree with @Dr. Dapper's thoughts.

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58 minutes ago, Lidolas said:

Shoot, I recently saw a WoB about your second question, but can't find it now.  From what I recall, Rand and Moridin's souls were linked since they crossed balefire streams.  At the end of the book, the soul that wanted to live, Rand's went to the body that would live, Moridin's, and the soul that wanted to die, Moridin's, went to the body that would die, Rand's. 

It also mentioned your first question about the pipe.  But he just said that Robert Jordan had already written that part, it's straight from him.  And RJ didn't leave any notes about how or why Rand was able to.  I agree with @Dr. Dapper's thoughts.

I actually really like that explanation. 

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On 5/5/2019 at 6:49 PM, Dr. Dapper said:

- Good question. Nobody knows for sure. My theory is that Rand can manipulate the Pattern directly and caused the tabacco to combust.

- It was explained at some point, I don't remember it myself but my dad assures me it was.

Ahem it’s Tabac

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1 hour ago, I am a stick!!!!!!!!!!!!!! said:

Ahem it’s Tabac

Oh?

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16 hours ago, Dr. Dapper said:

Oh?

‘Tis

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On 5/5/2019 at 11:09 PM, Wyndlerunner said:

Funnily enough, what you're concerned about are 2 of 3 things Brandon is not allowed to answer about the end of the series, so it really is up to interpretation.

As for my explanation of Rand and Moridin doing the whole body switch thing: The 2 became linked after their Balefire streams cross in Shadar Logoth (End of Crown of Swords), allowing for a deep connection between the two, as showcased via the fact that Rand becomes able to tap the True Power in book 12 (whether or not Moridin intentionally let Rand access it to kill Semirhage, cementing his position as Nae'blis, is a whole other discussion) and the 2 are showcased being able to enter each other's Dream Shards (Personal Tel'Aran'Rhiod) which it is implied requires a great deal of connection. Not to mention, both are connected to Callandor, combining the One Power and the True Power to reseal the Bore, which if anything, only deepened their connection. As for how the exact way their psyches switch, I'm drawing a blank, but I bet it involves Tel'Aran'Rhiod.

What's the third thing?

Talk about death of the author - I know it's morbid, but so apt.

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11 minutes ago, Turin Turambar said:

What's the third thing?

Talk about death of the author - I know it's morbid, but so apt.

Third is who Nakomi is.

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ahh... I'm spoiled - I like when I can find the answer eventually, cause Brandon would just RAFO something, which means we'll find out eventually.

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In The Gathering Storm Rand said: “Cadsuane,” he said softly, “do you believe that I could kill you? Right here, right now, without using a sword or the Power? Do you believe that if I simply willed it, the Pattern would bend around me and stop your heart? By . . . coincidence?”. This might be a clue to the pipe thing. And when he met Tuon there was that bad vibe coming from him and then when he appeared in Towers of Midnight there was a new vibe. I think these might indicate that there was something special, really special, about Rand.

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Perhaps - Perrin said that he thought that the three of them were no longer Ta'veren.

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Posted (edited)

On 5/13/2019 at 1:10 PM, Turin Turambar said:

ahh... I'm spoiled - I like when I can find the answer eventually, cause Brandon would just RAFO something, which means we'll find out eventually.

Not necessarily, Brandon actually adopted RAFO from Robert Jordan. Robert Jordan always explained RAFO with the caveat that sometimes you simply will not get all the answers.

Edited by The Sovereign
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Shoot. I don't suppose that it was possible to leave my innocent bliss? :) 

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On 20/05/2019 at 2:46 AM, Turin Turambar said:

Perhaps - Perrin said that he thought that the three of them were no longer Ta'veren.

But even so. There's got to be some sort of reward. And Rand can no longer channel, there's got to be some compensation. He still has a channeler's lifespan, though

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6 hours ago, rmmateus said:

But even so. There's got to be some sort of reward. And Rand can no longer channel, there's got to be some compensation. He still has a channeler's lifespan, though

On that topic - how is it even possible to "burn out" from being a ta'veren? That wasn't set up at all - so how did that happen?

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As far as I understand it:

1. He learned how to manipulate the Pattern during his metaphysical battle with the DO. Therefore, he can now warp reality at will.

2. Basically what Lidolas said, crossing balefire streams linked their souls.

3. Nakomi is likely to be an avatar of the Creator.

4. The boys' status as ta'veren is no longer needed by the Pattern, the Last Battle is won, therefore they have no reason to continue as such and risk (as the Pattern sees it) more complications down the line.

 

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20 hours ago, Lord Anomander Rake said:

As far as I understand it:

1. He learned how to manipulate the Pattern during his metaphysical battle with the DO. Therefore, he can now warp reality at will.

2. Basically what Lidolas said, crossing balefire streams linked their souls.

3. Nakomi is likely to be an avatar of the Creator.

4. The boys' status as ta'veren is no longer needed by the Pattern, the Last Battle is won, therefore they have no reason to continue as such and risk (as the Pattern sees it) more complications down the line.

 

That's precisely how I viewed it!

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On 23/05/2019 at 2:38 AM, Turin Turambar said:

On that topic - how is it even possible to "burn out" from being a ta'veren? That wasn't set up at all - so how did that happen?

Rand's purpose as ta'veren was fulfilled and the Pattern doesn't need him anymore. I guess it's natural that the three were no longer ta'veren. And it's the Pattern that chooses what to weave and what to leave out, so, without need for uniting threads, Rand, Mat and Perrin just became normal threads. That's what I think

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they bend the pattern around them - so what you're trying to say is that the pattern wove itself to their "whims" until it wove them back to the pattern's whims?

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38 minutes ago, Turin Turambar said:

they bend the pattern around them - so what you're trying to say is that the pattern wove itself to their "whims" until it wove them back to the pattern's whims?

Pretty much. The Pattern is itself the reason they were Ta'Veren in the first point. To quote Loial, "And sometimes the Wheel bends a life-thread, or several threads, in such a way that all the surrounding threads are forced to swirl around it, and those force other threads, and those still others, and on and on. That first bending to make the Web, that is ta'veren, and there is nothing you can do to change it, not until the Pattern itself changes. The Web - ta'maral'ailen, it's called - can last for weeks, or for years. It can take in a town, or even the whole Pattern. Artur Hawkwing was ta'veren. So was Lews Therin Kinslayer, for that matter, I suppose" (Loial to Rand, The Eye of the World, Chapter 36). [Sourced from library.tarvalon.net]. Robert Jordan also stated that people are not born Ta'Veren [Robert Jordan's Blog, Friday, January 20th, 2006]. So if the Pattern is the force making people Ta'Veren, as a method of 'course correction', then it also makes sense that they would no longer be Ta'Veren when that course is corrected.

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Thanks - that answer that issue. I didn't know that.

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Mat is still a ta veren, however. There was a moment that indicated to me that his luck was still active. He was also feeling a tugging to go to Tuon, as well. So, he is still needed by the Pattern, which is funnily ironic. Also suits Mat to a tee.

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Posted (edited)

Rand and Moridin were linked ... kinda like Harry Potter and Voldemort were linked?;)

I know, I know - it's different. But still, it's odd that there is any similarity at all.

Are there other fantasy books/movies where this happens? Is it a "thing"?

Edited by Lump-wing
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