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Fused bond Radiant Spren


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Is it possible for one of the fused to bond a radiant spren and become radiant?

My main difficulty in answering this question for myself is a lack of underatanding of how the fused take over the body of the singer. When replacing the singer's soul does the fused accompany the gem heart? I originally thought this to be the case as the form of the fused is different, and singer forms are changed by spren in the gemheart.

If this is how it indeed works, would not a fused be able to bond a spren as a radiant might? Surely there are ample cracks in their soul for the spren to fill as the more they resurrect the more their soul deteriorates. So surely a spren who hates humanity and wants to help the opposing side could bond a fused. Or perhaps even a fused who changes sides to fight for the humans could bond a radiant spren.

Either way I'd like to hear what you all think regarding the possibility of such a bond. 

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I’m pretty sure the events are mutually exclusive, bonding an ancient singer and bonding a radiant spren that is, but that’s just a guess. Pretty sure the ancient singer and a radiant spren would be diametrically opposed to sharing a vessel/bondmate, but am not aware enough of the investiture mechanics behind bonding to give a positive answer either way as to the possibility.

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My understanding is that the Fused replace the Singer that they possess. I don't have the book in front of me, but the Fused that takes Venli's friend tells her that her friend is gone. I imagine that they would need to have one of Odium's spren in their gemheart in order to gain a from of power.

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1 hour ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

My understanding is that the Fused replace the Singer that they possess. I don't have the book in front of me, but the Fused that takes Venli's friend tells her that her friend is gone. I imagine that they would need to have one of Odium's spren in their gemheart in order to gain a from of power.

You are correct.  Once a fused is formed the original singer is dead. 

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Yes I'm aware that the former singer dies, but how does the cognitive shadow of the ancient singer inhabit the singer? And then depending on how they do this, would it not be possible for a fused who has changed sides (possible surely since sja anat is changing sides) to bond with a spren?

I'd be interested to see how their powers are affected. Perhaps they would require some form of corruption to allow the bond to work properly. 

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The heralds are cognitive shadows, similar to the fused, so they might also be able to form a spren bond. Or at least, the more coherent ones may be able to. The issue is one of connection, the fused are full of Odium's investiture, so I'm not sure if they'd be able to attract any spren. The releaser spren are the only ones I'd consider possible.

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13 hours ago, Wandering Investor said:

The heralds are cognitive shadows, similar to the fused, so they might also be able to form a spren bond. Or at least, the more coherent ones may be able to. The issue is one of connection, the fused are full of Odium's investiture, so I'm not sure if they'd be able to attract any spren. The releaser spren are the only ones I'd consider possible.

Yeah the Heralds are definitely able to bond spren, Nale has reached the fifth ideal of the skybreakers. 

Yeah I'd guess that the biggest issue would be conflicting investitures. That's why I mention sja anat, perhaps she could corupt either the spren with odious investiture (like Glys) or perhaps corrupt the fused with honorous/cultivative investiture, depending on what she can do once she switches sides. 

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To be perfectly honest, I see no issue mechanically with one of the Fused drawing a spren so long as they have a Physical Form. 

The problem is going to be not in the Investiture conflict (not that that isn't an issue, I just think it's one that a spren could choose to overcome) I just see it as exceedingly unlikely that one of the Fused is going to hold to the traits required to draw spren in the first place. 

There should be little difference, mechanically, between them and the Heralds. 

Edited by Calderis
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4 hours ago, Calderis said:

There should be little difference, mechanically, between them and the Heralds. 

The fused strike me as slightly more sprenish than the heralds, plus they don't don't seem to resurrect the same way. While they seem similar in that they're both cognitive shadows, I'm not sure they're mechanically in the same category.

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7 hours ago, Wandering Investor said:

The fused strike me as slightly more sprenish than the heralds, plus they don't don't seem to resurrect the same way. While they seem similar in that they're both cognitive shadows, I'm not sure they're mechanically in the same category.

The Heralds wouldn't be different if it weren't for the mechanism that gives them a body. The Fused are just using a different mechanism to achieve it. 

Warbreaker and Mistborn spoilers spoilers. 

Spoiler

Returned would be able to bond a spren as well, and even though the body is theirs they're still artificially stapled to it via the divine Breath in a way more similar to the Fused and their gemheart body theft than the heralds. I imagine it would be similar for Kelsier. 

Overall I think a CS is a CS. The choice in who to bond comes down to the Spren themselves, so I stand by my original statement. 

Edited by Calderis
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@Calderis I think you're probably right. And whilst it is certainly unlikely that any fused would behave in a way to attract a spren, I don't see it as impossible. 

I always imagined the fused as a people who harboured thousands of years of hatred towards a people group who took from them their entire planet. I saw their insanity as a result of their repeated resurrection. But I never saw them as pure beings of evil. 

I think it still possible that a fused would be able to change their mind on the matter. Of course they probably couldn't really forgive the humans, but I'm sure they could see that odium may not have their best interest at heart and decide they should help to defeat him. 

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So originally I was going to say I do not think a fused could bond a spren because they are made of investiture and I am unsure how the spren could suffuse existing investiture with their own in order to make a bond, but as it has been said (excellent point btw), the Heralds clearly do it and they are cognitive shadows, so color me convinced. 

1 hour ago, galendo said:

To be fair, we have only the Fused's testimony for this.  And he had reason to lie.

Well the voidspren also confirmed it, and I do not see why the fused would need to lie. The voidspren felt that if Venli did so much as to annoy the fused, he would kill her. The fused stated even explaining as much was him doing Venli a massive favor that she should be dropping to her knees to thank him for. All of this says to me the fused in that case could care less what Venli thinks or how she feels and if she gets on his bad side, he would destroy her. So I do not feel he would need to lie. 

Edited by Pathfinder
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On 5/9/2019 at 9:06 AM, Pathfinder said:

Well the voidspren also confirmed it, and I do not see why the fused would need to lie. The voidspren felt that if Venli did so much as to annoy the fused, he would kill her. The fused stated even explaining as much was him doing Venli a massive favor that she should be dropping to her knees to thank him for. All of this says to me the fused in that case could care less what Venli thinks or how she feels and if she gets on his bad side, he would destroy her. So I do not feel he would need to lie. 

There's plenty of reasons the Fused might lie, if the process truly is reversible.  Here's just a few:

1) Makes the Fused seem special.  Someone in warform isn't fundamentally better than someone in mateform, just different.  If the Fused are just another type of spren, then why should they be the ones in charge, rather than something like the Council of Five?

2) Less resistance from their hosts.  You're assuming that the Fused was lying primarily to Venli.  Isn't it also possible that he was lying primarily to Davram (or whatever his name was) and the other nearby hosts?  'Why bother to resist, you can't change anything anyway' is similar enough to Odium's argument to Moash and Dalinar that I wouldn't be surprised to see it here, too.

3) Hurting Venli.  Telling her that her mate is irrevocably dead is a rather Odious thing to do.  It wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn that a being so infused with Odium's Investure would prioritize causing pain over telling the truth.

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On 5/11/2019 at 11:42 AM, galendo said:

There's plenty of reasons the Fused might lie, if the process truly is reversible.  Here's just a few:

1) Makes the Fused seem special.  Someone in warform isn't fundamentally better than someone in mateform, just different.  If the Fused are just another type of spren, then why should they be the ones in charge, rather than something like the Council of Five?

Except the fused form is fundamentally better than the standard forms. That's why the singers sided with Odium. So they could have powers to fight off the humans. In my opinion you don't really need anything further to make it look special. Just there is the downside of you being killed so they can take up residence.

On 5/11/2019 at 11:42 AM, galendo said:

2) Less resistance from their hosts.  You're assuming that the Fused was lying primarily to Venli.  Isn't it also possible that he was lying primarily to Davram (or whatever his name was) and the other nearby hosts?  'Why bother to resist, you can't change anything anyway' is similar enough to Odium's argument to Moash and Dalinar that I wouldn't be surprised to see it here, too.

I would think they would rather lie that the parshendi does not die, so they are more inclined to opening themselves up during the storm without realizing they are essentially committing suicide. Actually I think a big plot point of book 4 would be Venli convincing the existing parshendi not to bond the fused because it will kill them. 

On 5/11/2019 at 11:42 AM, galendo said:

3) Hurting Venli.  Telling her that her mate is irrevocably dead is a rather Odious thing to do.  It wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn that a being so infused with Odium's Investure would prioritize causing pain over telling the truth.

Eh, I disagree but there isn't really anything there information wise that would allow either of us to prove one way or the other. So I guess RAFO?

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