Allomantic time shifting bubbles (burning bendalloy or cadmium)

[+robardin]

Is it ever specified (in the books or a WoB) where the "center" of a time bubble is?

I had pictured it as a kind of dome with Wayne or Marasi in the center, but I realized the other day that that would make the center of the bubble (assuming it's a sphere of effect) on a center axis at feet level. But other Allomantic effects that project from the Allomancer, like Steelpushing, radiate out from the Allomancer's center of gravity.

Since being only partially inside a bubble does weird things to things in motion, this would mean the minimum size for a time shifting bubble is different depending on the answer. If Wayne wanted to make a minimal speed bubble, around just himself and as little else as possible, the radius of a sphere centered on his COG would have to be approximately half his height, to avoid leaving some part of his body outside of it. But an Allomantic dome centered around his feet would have to have a radius of his entire height, so as not to leave his HEAD outside of the bubble!

Writing that, I guess I answered my own question, it's got to be centered on one's COG to make sense, right? (And to tie in with Allomantic iron/steel?)

Meanwhile, have we seen either Wayne or Marasi use their time bubble in an offensive way, rather than defensive (to cause bullets to change paths)? It seems like an excellent thing to use against someone in hand to hand fighting, to flare a speed bubble that partially intersects the other person, causing them to stumble or worse. In the case of a Steelrunner tapping speed, being partially caught in a flared cadmium bubble (that would cancel out their speed) might even cause limbs to dislocate, right? Or if you made a bubble that trisected a person, so they had their head and feet in motion outside the bubble, and the middle of their body inside the bubble?

Edited May 1, 2019 by robardin

[Karger]

10 minutes ago, robardin said:

Meanwhile, have we seen either Wayne or Marasi use their time bubble in an offensive way, rather than defensive (to cause bullets to change paths)? It seems like an excellent thing to use against someone in hand to hand fighting, to flare a speed bubble that partially intersects the other person, causing them to stumble or worse. In the case of a Steelrunner tapping speed, being partially caught in a flared cadmium bubble (that would cancel out their speed) might even cause limbs to dislocate, right? Or if you made a bubble that trisected a person, so they had their head and feet in motion outside the bubble, and the middle of their body inside the bubble?

That sounds dangerous I think getting out of the line of fire sounds smarter.  We see Marasi use her ability to trap people in slow time at least twice but that's about all I can think of.  

[Mushroom Catalog]

That sounds really interesting... In hand to hand fight, it could be useful. But in a gunfight, it is probably better to just move out of the way. 

I don't think it would chop off arms or anything like that. If you look at bullets flying in, they just get redirected. If they broke from being part in and part out, we would know. I think getting caught in a cadmium bubble would be like having a limb trapped suddenly- you might break bones, or worse. And they would be stuck inside of it. A bendalloy bubble would be interesting to be a bit caught in. A limb could still move at normal speed, relative to outside, and I think it would. But once a person gets fully out or in, they will be back to the normal time. If they get caught almost entirely in a bendalloy bubble, with a single limb out, I think it would be like a reverse situation with the cadmium bubbles. It could definitely be cool though!

As for the steelrunning, the arm does still have the effect of tapping steel. Brandon said somewhere that tapping steel has some sort of strengthening effect, so they don't just turn around and accidentally commit suicide by breaking their neck or moving their arm. The extra momentum from increased speed is somehow compensated for by the magic. I don't think that trapping a single steelrunner's limb in the bubble would have much more a dramatic effect than catching a normal person's limb in the bubble. That said, having an arm frozen in place while you are running is not going to be good in any sense of the word. It might still cause a dislocation or other injury. 

I do think is a really cool idea though!

Edited May 2, 2019 by Mushroom Catalog
Clarity

[Calderis]

It should still be based off of center of mass. There's a point before the first main firefight in AoL that Wayne positions his bubble to onky include wax and Marasi at their table by leaning back in his chair before he starts it. 

[Karger]

On 5/2/2019 at 5:59 PM, Calderis said:

It should still be based off of center of mass. There's a point before the first main firefight in AoL that Wayne positions his bubble to onky include wax and Marasi at their table by leaning back in his chair before he starts it. 

If that is true then it is theoretically possible to create a bubble outside yourself as per the fosbury flop method.

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

If that is true then it is theoretically possible to create a bubble outside yourself as per the fosbury flop method.

Once the bubble is place, it is anchored and static and the Allomancer can move within it. If the Allomancer leaves the bubble it collapses. 

[Karger]

53 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Once the bubble is place, it is anchored and static and the Allomancer can move within it. If the Allomancer leaves the bubble it collapses. 

Once their center of mass leaves it no?

[Bookish Ocelot]

When their body leaves it. 

Quote

However, if the Pulser who created a time bubble is on a small, moving object (or the person merely walks to the edge of the bubble), the Pulser will be transported through the bubble, "popping" it.

Otherwise, you'd have the nasty issue of processes working faster on one side of the bubble. Depending on how fast/slow you're moving in the bubble, it would hurt you pretty bad. The general consensus among medical doctors is that two hours is the cutoff for no permanent damage. After that, six hours is the amount of time before muscles decay completely.

Making guesses based on what I remember from the books, a bendalloy bubble could give you about 2 minutes before the distortion becomes perceptible. It seems to be a dilation of about 120. So if you apply the same to cadmium, things get weird. You stick your arm outside the bubble. This assumes the arm does not pop the bubble. One hour is 60 minutes. Six hours is 360 minutes. You spend a few minutes in your bubble with your arm outside and the arm is dead. Probably why Mistings don't do this.

But what if you stick your arm outside a Bendalloy bubble? Time is going slower inside than outside. In theory, you could use this to cut someone else's arm off. Bullets don't break the bubble. Why should an arm? They'd age faster inside than outside. 

 

 

[Calderis]

56 minutes ago, BookishOcelot said:

Making guesses based on what I remember from the books, a bendalloy bubble could give you about 2 minutes before the distortion becomes perceptible. It seems to be a dilation of about 120. So if you apply the same to cadmium, things get weird. You stick your arm outside the bubble. This assumes the arm does not pop the bubble. One hour is 60 minutes. Six hours is 360 minutes. You spend a few minutes in your bubble with your arm outside and the arm is dead. Probably why Mistings don't do this.

Bubbles don't work this way either you are completely effected, or your not effected. In or out. There's no partial use. 

Quote

Klokkan

Hello Mr. Sanderson, I have a question about bendalloy bubbles—what happens to a human that is partially in and partially out of the bubble when it's placed? Does the difference in the flow of time kill him?

And, if yes, is the boundary of active bendalloy bubble effectively impassable for living organisms? I get that bullets shot out of the bubble randomly change directions, but what happens to, let's say, a person trying to jump out of the bubble (or, given enough time, a person trying to get inside)?

Brandon Sanderson

Any living thing touching the bubble is affected by the bubble.

Footnote: Original question has been deleted from Reddit in the interim
/r/fantasy AMA 2013 (April 15, 2013)

 

[SwordNimiForPresident]

45 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Bubbles don't work this way either you are completely effected, or your not effected. In or out. There's no partial use. 

 

That makes sense. Things in the Cosmere are reflected cognitively as a whole, rather than in pieces. It would stand to reason that something is either inside or outside of a speed bubble depending on how it is perceived. It seems the cognitive center for a human is in the chest given that speed bubbles center on the Allomancer and steel/iron lines point to the chest.

[+robardin]

On 5/14/2019 at 8:22 PM, Calderis said:

Bubbles don't work this way either you are completely effected, or your not effected. In or out. There's no partial use. 

 

Nice WoB addressing my exact point. We saw the train and the stagecoach lurch when Marasi used a time bubble while in traveling inside of it, so I figured a person in motion on their own power would present a simlar effect.

Still... "Living thing", eh? What about Lifeless? Or a spren in the Physical Realm? I guess it's not likely ever to be explored in a Mistborn story, but hey, we can theorize.