MEB

Question: Couldn’t Wit be Cultivation?

17 posts in this topic

Wit’s main musings center around art, what makes one thing creative, brilliant, beautiful- another hated & banal. Wit spins tales, creates worlds thru music & words. Expresses he is sometimes at cross purpose w/ human affairs. Fears Odiums ire & intent for Wit. We are often told humans such as Dalinar have met Creationism . Why not Wit as this Creationism - who better represents a figure dedicated to what Creationism might represent? And a figure who’s skills and desires often might illuminate - for those articulate enough to have the heart, art, and courage to see? Wit, like Creationism appears fey, yet is deeper, both cutting and emotive, ephemeral, lasting, and powerfully, profoundly beautiful- if the witness has the eye to see.  

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Posted (edited)

What is "Creationism"? Do you mean Cultivation?

Edited by Okdes
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1 hour ago, MEB said:

Wit’s main musings center around art, what makes one thing creative, brilliant, beautiful- another hated & banal. Wit spins tales, creates worlds thru music & words. Expresses he is sometimes at cross purpose w/ human affairs. Fears Odiums ire & intent for Wit. We are often told humans such as Dalinar have met Creationism . Why not Wit as this Creationism - who better represents a figure dedicated to what Creationism might represent? And a figure who’s skills and desires often might illuminate - for those articulate enough to have the heart, art, and courage to see? Wit, like Creationism appears fey, yet is deeper, both cutting and emotive, ephemeral, lasting, and powerfully, profoundly beautiful- if the witness has the eye to see.  

Can you expand a little on Creationism in the Cosmere? Are you saying he is the embodiment of religious belief of divine creation in the Cosmere or another Shard we have yet to see named this?

Personally, I do not believe Hoid to be a Shardbearer. If he was, I feel he wouldn't need to go looking for other forms of Investiture. He would most likely use this Shard he holds to attempt to win others over. Brandon has said that he was present at the Shattering, was even offered a Shard yet refused to take it.

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35 minutes ago, Wander89 said:

Can you expand a little on Creationism in the Cosmere? Are you saying he is the embodiment of religious belief of divine creation in the Cosmere or another Shard we have yet to see named this?

Personally, I do not believe Hoid to be a Shardbearer. If he was, I feel he wouldn't need to go looking for other forms of Investiture. He would most likely use this Shard he holds to attempt to win others over. Brandon has said that he was present at the Shattering, was even offered a Shard yet refused to take it.

Hoid is confirmed NOT a shardbearer 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you mean Cultivation. I don't recall creationism being discussed, at least not with the term "creationism." I know Vorinism is creationist, because they talk about the Almighty, who is Honor, creating things. Presumably most of the other religions are as well, but I'm not sure. Cultivation, on the other hand, pretty much meets the description you've given. And she and Wit are most definitely two different people.

Incidentally, have you read any other books by Sanderson? Discussions about Cultivation and the other Shards like her are a lot easier, or at least different, if you're more Cosmere aware.

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7 hours ago, Okdes said:

Hoid is confirmed NOT a shardbearer 

I know, theres a quote that confirms he refused a shard. 

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I think Rosharan life evolved according to some kind of Metaphorical Selection

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No-one knows Wit's endgame yet, it could be taking up a Shard or finding those who will. I don't actually think his goal is to be a Shard holder but to guide those that are destined to hold those shards rightly.

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13 hours ago, Okdes said:

Hoid is confirmed NOT a shardbearer 

But he could still be a creationist. :P

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Just an interesting tidbit fresh off the presses:

 

Stormlightning [PENDING REVIEW]

Where is Hoid on the religious scale about the Beyond?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

That's a RAFO.

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Thank you all, fixed my question. I DID mean "Cultivation". Thanks for much smarter people here. Quotes such as follows and Wit's behaviors have me wondering:

1)"I will do what I can to help," Wit said, "and for that reason, I must go. I cannot risk too much, because if he finds me. ... I doubt there's anything in the Cosmere that Odium can't grab the Spiritual ..."

2) Shallon to Wit , says:" Stick to women your own age."  Wit cryptically replies: "Well, that might be a little harder. I think there's only one of those around these parts, and she and I never did get along."

3) We know Cultivation is a force Odium would like to see vanquished or gone. We learn this with Odium "chats" with Dalimar

4) Wit sometimes helps human forces but admits he is sometimes at cross purposes and also that he must take care for his own survival (apparently Odium would like him gone too)

5) We assume Wit is "male" but that is just how he chooses to be seen?

6) Wit's role seems to be one of keeping stories alive, art alive, or is that his only medium for providing instruction or influence? Does Wit risk himself by generally aligning with mortal forces? It does seem his gifts of music, art, imagery are woven from compassion, deep history, warnings, and foretellings. Are there any geasa on him for doing so? (Sorry, Irish--you know the word "Geas"?--meaning Does Wit risk prohibition, or danger for revealing as he does? He acts this way. With Odium's claim to wish Cultivation trapped--this made me wonder about Wit's concern for how much information he could give away.

7) he is often on the "other side" He tells Jasneh "You've been making quite a disturbance on the other side," Wit said.  "It's been a long time since the spren had to deal with someone alive, particularly someone so demanding as yourself."

8) Even the very smart Jasnah finds Wit to be of great information she asks him "Tell me what you know, Wit." when we first find her back in the regular living human world. 

9) Again with Jasnah, not a dull stick) she learns from WIT the secret of the Recreance,

10: It seems Wit made the drawings (Isn't Cultivation Creative?) Ash and Tain also of the heralds/ and Oathpact.

11. This doesn't help me but perhaps you. Brandon S is quoted as saying "Hoid is the second oldest being in the Cosmere after Frost" That makes Wit older than Shards. Who is the oldest then would help? isn't there a triumvirate of Odium, Cultivation and ?? Honor???? Wrong here I think. This though is why I make Wit=Hoid+Cultivation. It is fun when one is both a fool and ignorant Life is easier than!

12. Wit could be male or female.

13. Thanks for putting up with my blarney and complete daft ignorance!

14 Last Wit question: In Old English, I thought Hoid can mean "hound"? As in Hound of heaven? (closer really would be:  hound of sun)"  Would Sanderson be a word purist? Likely another Irish misstep. In keeping with tradition then. Thanks!

) I did not read these books with the skill and other's profound awesome attention. I also am a writer, frankly mess up my own symbolism-- so it is possible Mr. Sanderson could be leaving a few things hanging still. Very unlikely for someone of his credentials. Please, no rotten fruit my way. I am only expressing how deeply I appreciate everyone here; your far better grasp of these tales. I have read Mistborn and now this series but, in truth, I did occasionally (gulp) skim small parts of this trilogy to decrease pain. I didn't want to read every jump back into Dalimar's sorrow and time beyond fully grasping Evi's loss and the complexity of such grief, the way--for every human--we either become trapped in our losses, our patterns, our crimes- or growe to shoulder them and keep climbing. Thank you for allowing a poor reader then to ask humble questions none the less!  Amazing, inciteful people here and it enriches the tales to read your thoughts. With gratitude then, MB L

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, MEB said:

14 Last Wit question: In Old English, I thought Hoid can mean "hound"? As in Hound of heaven? (closer really would be:  hound of sun)"  Would Sanderson be a word purist? Likely another Irish misstep. In keeping with tradition then. Thanks!

Hoid was not his original name, so that's a little bit of a dead end with the meanings. 

2 hours ago, MEB said:

5) We assume Wit is "male" but that is just how he chooses to be seen?

He defies human stuff, because he's not technically human anymore. He was at one point, but no longer, per Sanderson's own words.

2 hours ago, MEB said:

Please, no rotten fruit my way.

You don't have to worry about rotten fruit. Hoid is an object of endless speculation and we've run everything about him into the ground, but new perspectives are always refreshing and we're always open to them. Or we try to be at least.

Plus, as to #6, yes, he is locked into not harming anyone, even himself. That's why he did what he did for his disguise in Oathbringer instead of just doing it himself.

Edited by Invocation
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On 27/04/2019 at 0:06 AM, MEB said:

2) Shallon to Wit , says:" Stick to women your own age."  Wit cryptically replies: "Well, that might be a little harder. I think there's only one of those around these parts, and she and I never did get along."

I'm reasonably sure he's referring to Cultivation there.

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5 hours ago, Dahak said:

I'm reasonably sure he's referring to Cultivation there.

All indications point in that direction.

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8 hours ago, Dahak said:

I'm reasonably sure he's referring to Cultivation there.

I always thought that he was referring to Khriss, but she wasn't present at the Shattering? So that eliminates that theory. But, there are some unknown Shards that Hoid could be referring to. Also, @MEB, did you know that Wit and Hoid are the same person? (if you didn't, then surprise, they are the same person).

 

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31 minutes ago, Keeper Exile said:

I always thought that he was referring to Khriss, but she wasn't present at the Shattering? So that eliminates that theory. But, there are some unknown Shards that Hoid could be referring to. Also, @MEB, did you know that Wit and Hoid are the same person? (if you didn't, then surprise, they are the same person).

 

We know Cultivation is female and on the same planet "these parts" and was since she appears to be original at the Shattering.

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