first void Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 It was said that lift asked to stay the same, or remain unchanged while things around her changed, or some variation of that theme. In the released draft chapter, she is growing and complains about not getting what she wanted. I think that cultivation would never grant someone to never change, as she is a shard of growth, and the story overall would not stand for a static character. Furthermore, the saying of the oaths requires some form of growth as a person. To get around this, Cultivation might have stopped her changing physically. This could explain the conversion of food, so she can stay the same size and weight. (of course, for that, her weight at the time of asking must have been indicative of some form of malnutrition.). This i think would be the boon, or boon in addition to curse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 hour ago, first void said: It was said that lift asked to stay the same, or remain unchanged while things around her changed, or some variation of that theme. In the released draft chapter, she is growing and complains about not getting what she wanted. I think that cultivation would never grant someone to never change, as she is a shard of growth, and the story overall would not stand for a static character. Furthermore, the saying of the oaths requires some form of growth as a person. To get around this, Cultivation might have stopped her changing physically. This could explain the conversion of food, so she can stay the same size and weight. (of course, for that, her weight at the time of asking must have been indicative of some form of malnutrition.). This i think would be the boon, or boon in addition to curse. She is actually changing physically, though. She starts her period just before Edgedancer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first void Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, RShara said: She is actually changing physically, though. She starts her period just before Edgedancer. Where does it say that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 minute ago, first void said: Where does it say that? Quote “Is this about what happened to you?” Wyndle asked. “I don’t know a lot about humans, but I believe it was natural, disconcerting though it might appear. You aren’t wounded.” 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first void Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 She is implied to be having her period in the released Rhythm of War interlude (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/412-ltue-2020/#e13628), so i thought that this was a more recent development. When was you quote said? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 32 minutes ago, first void said: She is implied to be having her period in the released Rhythm of War interlude (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/412-ltue-2020/#e13628), so i thought that this was a more recent development. When was you quote said? The quote is from Edgedancer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first void Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 This still sounds like a recent development for her, and to get wyndle she would have had to say the first oath. This implies some form of personal development. This might have messed with the old magic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 4 hours ago, first void said: This still sounds like a recent development for her, and to get wyndle she would have had to say the first oath. This implies some form of personal development. This might have messed with the old magic. I am...not sure what you mean, sorry? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 5 hours ago, first void said: This still sounds like a recent development for her, and to get wyndle she would have had to say the first oath. This implies some form of personal development. This might have messed with the old magic. 13 is a pretty standard age for a girl to start menstruating. Given Lift's tendency to burn through Calories I'm surprised she'd have it at all. So I doubt the old magic wearing off is the culprit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first void Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 I mean her ability of regrowth. This ability ( as well as the baseline radiant healing) would encourage her to grow. The old magic would be trying to keep her from growing. I figure that the radiant ability would be able to make headway. So she might start growing as she develops as a radiant. On the other hand, the old magic might just have some effect im not accounting for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammac Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 On 6/12/2020 at 8:57 PM, first void said: It was said that lift asked to stay the same, or remain unchanged while things around her changed, or some variation of that theme. In the released draft chapter, she is growing and complains about not getting what she wanted. I think that cultivation would never grant someone to never change, as she is a shard of growth, and the story overall would not stand for a static character. Furthermore, the saying of the oaths requires some form of growth as a person. To get around this, Cultivation might have stopped her changing physically. This could explain the conversion of food, so she can stay the same size and weight. (of course, for that, her weight at the time of asking must have been indicative of some form of malnutrition.). This i think would be the boon, or boon in addition to curse. The wording was more like to stay herself when everything around her went wrong. I cant remember seeing lift be scared or panic when anything goes wrong, shes in danger or near death, just stays her usual starvin' self. The curse has to be the food to stormlight thing, for a knight radiant it would be a nightmare not to be able to just carry a big bag of infused gems, or breathe stormlight in from other peoples gemstones. In battle with the fused to have to stop for a sandwich could be problematic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, first void said: I mean her ability of regrowth. This ability ( as well as the baseline radiant healing) would encourage her to grow. The old magic would be trying to keep her from growing. I figure that the radiant ability would be able to make headway. So she might start growing as she develops as a radiant. On the other hand, the old magic might just have some effect im not accounting for. Why would Regrowth encourage her to grow? Regrowth is just healing. And she's not constantly using her surge on herself. It's not a constantly active superpower. It's important to remember that Cultivation is just as much about the pruning shears as she is the planting. A Bonzai Tree kept tiny for a purpose is well within and arguably central to what Cultivation is. If she wanted Lift to stay 10 forever she could have made that happen, regardless of her Surges, but she didn't. She gave Lift something different. And we need to stop referring to what happened to Dalinar, Lift, and Taravangian as The Old Magic. The Nightwatcher is the source of the Old Magic. Cultivation can do so much more and doesn't have to follow rules she doesn't want to, so long as they are in line with the purpose of cultivating. Grow or shrink. Prune or Plant. Edited June 14, 2020 by Aminar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Hel Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) So, the magic not knowing how to interpret that, is that just because Cultivation's Shard literally can't do it because its so counter to the Shard's intent? So, if Preservation had been asked for this boon could he have granted it? I know compounding can sort of do it, but eventually age overpowers it, but could Preservation have granted the boon if he was asked by someone? Edited June 14, 2020 by Darth_Hel 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 14 minutes ago, Darth_Hel said: So, the magic not knowing how to interpret that, is that just because Cultivation's Shard literally can't do it because its so counter to the Shard's intent? So, if Preservation had been asked for this boon could he have granted it? I know compounding can sort of do it, but eventually age overpowers it, but could Preservation have granted the boon if he was asked by someone? In the beginning, probably but later on his Intent was far too overpowering 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Hel Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Just now, R J said: In the beginning, probably but later on his Intent was far too overpowering Wouldn't that actually increase the chances he could do it? Never changing seems in line with Preservation's intent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Just now, Darth_Hel said: Wouldn't that actually increase the chances he could do it? Never changing seems in line with Preservation's intent. In this specific case, with this specific Boon, yeah. I think that would probably mean a Cognitive Shadow 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 9 hours ago, Darth_Hel said: So, the magic not knowing how to interpret that, is that just because Cultivation's Shard literally can't do it because its so counter to the Shard's intent? So, if Preservation had been asked for this boon could he have granted it? I know compounding can sort of do it, but eventually age overpowers it, but could Preservation have granted the boon if he was asked by someone? Not really. Cultivation is changing something to make it fit a goal. Changing strawberries to be huge through crossbreeding. Keeping a Bonzai Small for aesthetic appeal. Trimming Lilacs to get as many flowers as possible. Moving Lift partially into the cognitive as a tool againat Odium. Pruning Dalinar's memories so he could grow into the Bondsmith. Cultivation's intent is pretty wild in that its very freeform, but has to be kind of, schemy and indirect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first void Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 So she could just be growing in the way cultivation wants. Secondly, I am still not sure the food thing is a curse. I figure it could be cultivation's way of having her stunt her own growth or something. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammac Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, first void said: So she could just be growing in the way cultivation wants. Secondly, I am still not sure the food thing is a curse. I figure it could be cultivation's way of having her stunt her own growth or something. I dont agree, if anything being malnourished would make her body age faster, she just wouldn't grown as fast. I think the night watchers boon and bane is based on Ashyn magic (possibly cultivations 1st magic system) where to gain something you have to lose something. In nature you cant grow from nothing, a plant needs nutrients usually in the form of something else dying to give them. Unless the food thing was the boon in the sense that she was an urchin and always hungry, now shes still always hungry as she burns the food for stormlight, so that part of her has never changed. This is also a curse. If you look at Dalinar and Teravangien, their gift and curses are one in the same. Dalinar wanted rid of the pain, this was done by removing the memory of his wife. T wanted to be smart and compassionate, he is, just not at the same time. It's how I imagine Ashyn magic. Want to start fire with your mind? Great, heres a raging fever to go with it. Want to see the future? Sure thing, here are your cataracts so you cant see the present. Edited June 14, 2020 by Cammac Typo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first void Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 7 hours ago, Cammac said: I dont agree, if anything being malnourished would make her body age faster, she just wouldn't grown as fast. I think the night watchers boon and bane is based on Ashyn magic (possibly cultivations 1st magic system) where to gain something you have to lose something. In nature you cant grow from nothing, a plant needs nutrients usually in the form of something else dying to give them. Unless the food thing was the boon in the sense that she was an urchin and always hungry, now shes still always hungry as she burns the food for stormlight, so that part of her has never changed. This is also a curse. If you look at Dalinar and Teravangien, their gift and curses are one in the same. Dalinar wanted rid of the pain, this was done by removing the memory of his wife. T wanted to be smart and compassionate, he is, just not at the same time. It's how I imagine Ashyn magic. Want to start fire with your mind? Great, heres a raging fever to go with it. Want to see the future? Sure thing, here are your cataracts so you cant see the present. I mean for her to stay the same appearance as when she wished. I figure the magic does have the ability to mess with age, but food consumed still goes somewhere. turning it into energy/investiture seems like a good solution. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first void Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 Similar thought: Did cultivation connect her personal growth with her physical growth? She would stay the same as much as she stays the same mentally. Would explain why she started growing up after a few ideals. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--- Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 It was implied that she is "staying the same" but not physically. Cultivation was like "yeah you're gonna be the same person of course" I assumed the cognitive realm dohickey was the "curse" part of it. Cultivation seems to kind of not give curses. She took away Dalinar's memory of Evi but that was also kind of part of a bigger plan. Lift being able to be partially in the cognitive realm hasn't every really been bad for her. Of course there's the thing with Taravangian- but I mean we haven't seen that play out totally. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackcatw81 Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 On 23/4/2019 at 5:33 PM, supersmith said: ...she seems very surprised to find that shes growing. Maybe these reasons are weaker then I thought they would be. But it also makes sense she would start growing around the same time Dalinar gets his memories back, because it was finally time to grow. Cultivation made "a pruning" to Lift in the same way she did to Dalinar: she can see part of the future and she's the God for growing so Lift is growing up now, because she needs to resolve her "demons" to help win the battle vs Odium. Don't remember the exact words of Wyndle when we were introduced to them, but he knows she's a child of Cultivation, so there's not only the boon/curse of the Nightwatcher (and I suspect Cultivation was more involved) but something extra Alas, I don't know all the WoB and I can't recite the books on memory.. so sorry if I'm mistaken. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first void Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 She is not staying the same person. All oaths require some development as a person to be accepted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.