Lift's Curse?

[Karger]

We all know the standard Nightwatcher game.  You get a boon and a curse sometimes related sometimes not.  Lift sought out the Nightwatcher and asked not to change.  She claims that she did not get what she asked for but something happened to her that makes her more sprenlike perhaps immortal.  What is her curse?

[soulcastJam]

Possible SA3 spoilers

Spoiler

Do we know she actually met the Nightwatcher? I'm thinking she just met Cultivation.

Edited April 22, 2019 by soulcastJam

[+Invocation]

10 minutes ago, soulcastJam said:

Possible SA3 spoilers

  Reveal hidden contents

Do we know she actually met the Nightwatcher? I'm thinking she just met Cultivation.

There would probably still be a curse. 

[Weltall]

16 minutes ago, Karger said:

We all know the standard Nightwatcher game.  You get a boon and a curse sometimes related sometimes not.  Lift sought out the Nightwatcher and asked not to change.  She claims that she did not get what she asked for but something happened to her that makes her more sprenlike perhaps immortal.  What is her curse?

We can infer from her own thoughts that Lift asked to 'not change' in some way and whether it was the Nightwatcher or Cultivation that granted the request the magic didn't really know how to interpret that, hence the weirdness. We know she's not actually unchanging because she has her first period during the events of Edgedancer, which scared her because it meant she was changing. And her inability to use Stormlight normally and the consequences of needing to get it from food (depriving her of nutrition in the process) can be seen as both awesome in the non-Liftian sense and a curse. We really don't know which is which for her yet.

On that note we really shouldn't assume any given thing is a boon or a curse until we get a good amount of information on their wish and the consequences of it. Taravangian for example assumes that his intelligence was the boon and the fact that it changes daily (with an inverse relationship to his compassion) was the curse but it's entirely possible he misinterpreted that, and the compassion was the intended boon, or the fluctuation of the two was itself both the boon (you get to be smart enough and compassionate enough to do what needs to be done) and the curse (because you can't have both at once and you have to work out how to balance the impulses) to give the most prominent example.

And as Dalinar shows, even if the gift comes from Cultivation it's still a double-edged sword, the only difference is that you're playing into Cultivation's long-term plans with what you get rather than the whims of the Nightwatcher who's sort of making it up as she goes along

[ShardShaper]

So, we know that lift is partially in the cognitive realm right? My bet is that this is why she can touch spren, and metabolize food into stormlight. So step one in finding her curse is to figure out if that's her boon.

[not an Evil Librarian]

1 hour ago, soulcastJam said:

Possible SA3 spoilers

  Hide contents

Do we know she actually met the Nightwatcher? I'm thinking she just met Cultivation.

I thought I saw a WoB on this, but it might have just been this

Quote

 

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

When Lift says to Dalinar that he smells like her, does she mean Cultivation or Nightwatcher?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

[She] meant Nightwatcher, but Nightwatcher is kind of Cultivation, so, yeah.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

 

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by not an Evil Librarian

[Will Arbit]

The fact that we aren't sure what part of this was supposed to be a gift is just evidence of how strange the situation is.

[not an Evil Librarian]

I found a WoB that partially answers this question

Quote

 

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Why does Lift need Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Lift went to see the Nightwatcher, and got a Blessing and a Curse in that she can metabolize food to turn into Stormlight, but she can't use regular Stormlight. And there is something else, as well.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

So they have the same surges or different surges for Cultivation?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

She uses the same surges, but they are powered differently.

Idaho Falls signing (July 21, 2018)

 

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by not an Evil Librarian

[RShara]

I think that Cultivation got involved, and any time Cultivation takes a direct hand, the situation is much more complicated than a simple boon and curse.

[Karger]

5 hours ago, RShara said:

I think that Cultivation got involved, and any time Cultivation takes a direct hand, the situation is much more complicated than a simple boon and curse.

But as we see with Dalinar Cultivation actually does give a boon and curse.

[+Invocation]

25 minutes ago, Karger said:

But as we see with Dalinar Cultivation actually does give a boon and curse.

Yes, the boon and curse are there, that wasn't the point of contention. With the Nightwatcher, most of the boons and curses are more cut-and-dried than what Cultivation gives you. Cultivation gives you what you need, the Nightwatcher gives you what you want. The lines are significantly blurred. To use the example of Dalinar, the boon and curse were very nearly the same thing: the removal of Evi from his memory and cognition. This allowed him to forget and forgive himself in the short term, while assuming that was the curse, when instead the curse was that the memories would come back eventually. This alone, though, was not solely a curse, either, because it allowed him to resist Odium's offer to be champion. 

There is no black and white when you're someone like Cultivation, who can see the future to an extent and whose whole purpose is to make things grow. There are only shades of light and dark. 

[Calderis]

I thought her curse was pretty obvious personally. 

She can make stormlight through food, which is awesome. She can't inhale stormlight like literally everyone else. It's food only. 

Which is why she needed food in OB when you had gems filled with stormlight scattered everywhere. 

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Why does Lift need Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Lift went to see the Nightwatcher, and got a Blessing and a Curse in that she can metabolize food to turn into Stormlight, but she can't use regular Stormlight. And there is something else, as well.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

So they have the same surges or different surges for Cultivation?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

She uses the same surges, but they are powered differently.

Idaho Falls signing (July 21, 2018)

 

[+Invocation]

7 minutes ago, Calderis said:

She can make stormlight through food, which is awesome. She can't inhale stormlight like literally everyone else. It's food only. 

I don't consider that a complete curse, though. After all, there is a period of time in which no highstorm regularly passes over Roshar. Lift would be able to Surgebind during that period while everyone else would have to rely on the extremely limited (proportionally to what it was before, at least) Stormlight in the perfect gems. Granted, this becomes less of an issue later, but for now, with Odium likely aware of this limitation among the Radiants, it has potential to be a boon as well, should Odium choose to launch an attack during the Weeping.

It is fairly lopsided for now, though.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Invocation

[Karger]

6 minutes ago, Invocation said:

I don't consider that a complete curse, though. After all, there is a period of time in which no highstorm regularly passes over Roshar. Lift would be able to Surgebind during that period while everyone else would have to rely on the extremely limited (proportionally to what it was before, at least) Stormlight in the perfect gems. Granted, this becomes less of an issue later, but for now, with Odium likely aware of this limitation among the Radiants, it has potential to be a boon as well, should Odium choose to launch an attack during the Weeping.

From a logistics and moral standpoint marching an army in constant rain sounds fairly nasty that being said lack of Radinat power would be nice.  I imagine that the radiants had ways to deal with this besides gemstones though.  Remember bondsmiths can overcharge regardless of the weather and perfect gemstones do exist.

[+Invocation]

1 minute ago, Karger said:

From a logistics and moral standpoint marching an army in constant rain sounds fairly nasty that being said lack of Radinat power would be nice.  I imagine that the radiants had ways to deal with this besides gemstones though.  Remember bondsmiths can overcharge regardless of the weather and perfect gemstones do exist.

Previous Bondsmiths may not have been able to overcharge, and it may even be unique to Dalinar's section of the three Bondsmiths. We don't know yet.

Yes, perfect gemstones exist, but in this scenario and the likely eventuality that Odium launches an attack during the Weeping, he will likely have stolen most of the perfect gems like he attempted to do with Honor's Drop, causing even more issues.

[Calderis]

@Invocation I mean no offense here, but what you, or anyone else feels is a "curse" is irrelevant and that is even reflected in the text.

Quote

“What was his curse?” Baxil said.

“Saw the world upside down from then on.”

“Really?”

“Yeah,” Av said. “Twisted all about. Like people walk on the ceilings and the sky was underneath him. Said he got used to it pretty quickly, though, and didn’t really think it a curse by the time he died.”

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by Calderis

[not an Evil Librarian]

@Calderis that WoB only partially answers the question as Brandon says that there is "something else as well" while regarding the curse.

Edited April 23, 2019 by not an Evil Librarian

[Toaster Retribution]

8 hours ago, Invocation said:

I don't consider that a complete curse, though. After all, there is a period of time in which no highstorm regularly passes over Roshar. Lift would be able to Surgebind during that period while everyone else would have to rely on the extremely limited (proportionally to what it was before, at least) Stormlight in the perfect gems. Granted, this becomes less of an issue later, but for now, with Odium likely aware of this limitation among the Radiants, it has potential to be a boon as well, should Odium choose to launch an attack during the Weeping.

It is fairly lopsided for now, though.

The inability to use Stormlight can still be a liability. There is usually not food scattered around battlefields, but there is probably a lot of infused gemstones, given that they are the currency everyone use to buy stuff.

1 hour ago, not an Evil Librarian said:

@Calderis that WoB only partially answers the question as Brandon says that there is "something else as well" while regarding the curse.

Probably something related to the change as well. I have a hard time seeing how metabolizing food fits there. 

[+Invocation]

1 minute ago, Toaster Retribution said:

The inability to use Stormlight can still be a liability. There is usually not food scattered around battlefields, but there is probably a lot of infused gemstones, given that they are the currency everyone use to buy stuff.

1 hour ago, not an Evil Librarian said:

I'm not arguing that it's not a liability. That's 90% of my argument. It has its ups and down, no clearcut "This is the boon" or "This is the curse." There are situations where it would be useful, and there are situations that it would not be useful. As to food being scattered around battlefields, that's...iffy. Takes a lot to feed an army, and even when they have Soulcasters, people are still going to have some emergency food as a reserve for when there's a lack of Stormlight or they've got an unexpected boost in soldier population. Thaylen City, for example, had a soldier supply depot with food in it right near the walls, which is a very smart move, and I'd be honestly surprised if no other group on Roshar did that as well. Lift has some particular advantages being able to get to these caches as well, potentially helping the case.

Or she could just have a backpack of food.

[supersmith]

I've had a theory floating around for a little while, and it is that Lift is actually a lot older then she looks, and her curse is seeing her loved ones fade away. for a few reasons:

1. When she says shes 10, she says shes been 10 for more then one year. Granted this could just be Lift being Lift.

2. When she says her mother died, she says everyone dies in a way that seems almost uncaring, at first I thought she was murdered, but what if she died from old age? 

3. She had a lot of street knowledge, and seems to have been to a lot of the world. 

4. She seems very surprised to find that shes growing. 

Maybe these reasons are weaker then I thought they would be. But it also makes sense she would start growing around the same time Dalinar gets his memories back, because it was finally time to grow. 

[Calderis]

Seriously. I've said this a lot, but "clear cut" boons and curses seem to be the Nightwatcher thing... Not Cultivation. 

Look at Dalinar, T, and Lift... Boon and curse are all wrapped up in each other in each case in a way that makes determining anything difficult. Dalinar's memories going away, and the timing of them coming back were as much boon as curse. 

I think with any of these three assuming that it will ever be clear is just incorrect. 

[Weltall]

1 hour ago, supersmith said:

I've had a theory floating around for a little while, and it is that Lift is actually a lot older then she looks, and her curse is seeing her loved ones fade away. for a few reasons:

1. When she says shes 10, she says shes been 10 for more then one year. Granted this could just be Lift being Lift.

She says that because that's how old she was when she visited the Nightwatcher and it happened three years ago. Hence she considers herself to still be ten because up until Edgedancer she assumed that she'd gotten her wish and wasn't aging any more. Her freaking out over suddenly having a period doesn't make sense if she's older than we've been led to think. Also, the text and Brandon have both stated that she's really thirteen, so it's pretty well established how old she is in absolute terms.

[supersmith]

7 minutes ago, Weltall said:

She says that because that's how old she was when she visited the Nightwatcher and it happened three years ago. Hence she considers herself to still be ten because up until Edgedancer she assumed that she'd gotten her wish and wasn't aging any more. Her freaking out over suddenly having a period doesn't make sense if she's older than we've been led to think. Also, the text and Brandon have both stated that she's really thirteen, so it's pretty well established how old she is in absolute terms.

Well in that case, never mind. Thank you for pointing this out to me. 

[Karger]

13 hours ago, Invocation said:

Previous Bondsmiths may not have been able to overcharge, and it may even be unique to Dalinar's section of the three Bondsmiths. We don't know yet.

Overcharging is different then opening a perp

[Philomath]

@supersmith I had that theory for a while too. I was sad when a forgotten line in Edgedancer proved me wrong. (I don’t have ebooks so I can’t add the exact quote.) I thought it would have been cool if she was really several hundred years old. As for her boon and curse, I agree with Calderis that it is much more likely to be a Cultivation thing given how complicated Lift’s whole situation is.