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Posted (edited)

Ok, so I saw this Magic: the gathering card, and the flavor text sounds like it could be Kaladin’s next oath.

9E5F5577-9CA4-4914-B988-52DC0AA1BB6E.jpeg

Edited by Lord Mistborn Bondbreaker
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Hmm... Have any other oaths been found on "Magic: the gathering"? if so, then this is plausible. If not, I doubt the wording is similar, but the theme may be the same.

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Each order (excluding lightweavers) has four order-specific oaths. Each order also has two divine attributes. For the windrunners, these are protecting and leading. 

The first two seem to focus on protecting

Quote

I will protect those who cannot protect themselves

Quote

I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right

This leads me to believe that the second two oaths will focus on leadership. 

(Oathbringer spoilers)

Spoiler

Kaladin fails to swear the fourth oath while being attacked by fused in shadesmar. When he thinks of Tien, he stutters and collapses. 

I don't know if it has to do with his reluctance to lead, but it is still notable. 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, BookishOcelot said:

Each order (excluding lightweavers) has four order-specific oaths. Each order also has two divine attributes. For the windrunners, these are protecting and leading. 

The first two seem to focus on protecting

This leads me to believe that the second two oaths will focus on leadership. 

(Oathbringer spoilers)

  Reveal hidden contents

Kaladin fails to swear the fourth oath while being attacked by fused in shadesmar. When he thinks of Tien, he stutters and collapses. 

I don't know if it has to do with his reluctance to lead, but it is still notable. 

The reason I disagree with this line of thought that a that it doesn’t fit thematically. His arc right now is about how he has never grown calluses to death, and he doesn’t know who to protect. Having an Oath about leadership right now, is like having an Oath about being more Pious, while Dalinar was struggling with taking responsibility. 

First and foremost, Stormlight is a story. And as such the Oaths that fit best thematically, are the ones that will most likely take place.

Edited by Lord Mistborn Bondbreaker
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All the past oaths Kaladin has sworn so far happened in the middle of some big event where he learns this lesson and such.

I almost don’t want it to be one because that means someone close to Kaladin is going to die like Adolin almost did.

Whether or not it’s an oath, it’s definitely something Kaladin needs to accept.:lol:

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Posted (edited)

On 4/19/2019 at 8:00 PM, TheGirlWhoLookedUp said:

I almost don’t want it to be one because that means someone close to Kaladin is going to die like Adolin almost did.

If someone does die, I hope it is Moash.

However, it will most likely be a core member of Bridge Four. Probably Rock or Teft.

Edited by Lord Mistborn Bondbreaker
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3 hours ago, Lord Mistborn Bondbreaker said:

If someone does die, I hope it is Moash.

However, it will most likely be a core member of Bridge Four. Probably Rock or Teft.

I’m going with Lirin, for now

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It's probably going to be something about accepting that he can't protect everyone. One of his conflicts in OB was

Spoiler

wanting to protect the Parshendi, too. He sees their side. Perhaps he'll find out Dalinar did- that the humans were the first Voidbringers. This could lead him to side with the Parshendi even more, leading to a big inner conflict. Combined with his resentment toward the nobility, he could even start to side with Odium. When he realizes that he's wrong, it could provide an opportunity to swear his next oath.

This is just a prediction, and is quite possibly entirely false. However, I think it would be interesting to see, and is a natural progression of Kaladin's conflict (not that I think he needs MORE conflict in his life). It takes it in a slightly different direction, but I think that the above oath is definitely still valid.

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I disagree that it needs to involve death. 

It involves him struggling and doing something hard. For instance, if the Jasnah/Political Marriage happens, and he becomes King, he is NOT going to like it. He would probably prefer death, but it would be excellent growth for him. 

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On 4/21/2019 at 3:21 PM, Lord Mistborn Bondbreaker said:

If someone does die, I hope it is Moash.

However, it will most likely be a core member of Bridge Four. Probably Rock or Teft.

I feel like if any member of Bridge Four were to end up dying, it would most likely be Lopen. He is one that the readers wouldn't expect to die.

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Kaladin broke his oath by refusing to protect.  The gems in the tower indicate conflict in Windrunners about the fourth oath.  It has to be something about accepting that he cannot protect everyone.  Or that failure will happen.  Or that he must allow others the chance to protect themselves.

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4 hours ago, Stark said:

Kaladin broke his oath by refusing to protect.  The gems in the tower indicate conflict in Windrunners about the fourth oath.  It has to be something about accepting that he cannot protect everyone.  Or that failure will happen.  Or that he must allow others the chance to protect themselves.

Or that he might need to ask them to step into danger, if the next oaths involve Leadership. 

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On 4/21/2019 at 3:21 PM, Lord Mistborn Bondbreaker said:

If someone does die, I hope it is Moash.

However, it will most likely be a core member of Bridge Four. Probably Rock or Teft.

I'm actually hoping that his next oath ends up revolving around Moash. He has already sworn one oath while protecting the king from Moash. It would be an interesting twist if his next oath happens while trying to save him or some such even after all the betrayal, and yes for some strange reason I'm hoping Moash can be redeemed.

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57 minutes ago, Hoidwillsaveus said:

I'm actually hoping that his next oath ends up revolving around Moash. He has already sworn one oath while protecting the king from Moash. It would be an interesting twist if his next oath happens while trying to save him or some such even after all the betrayal, and yes for some strange reason I'm hoping Moash can be redeemed.

I really appreciate this sentiment, and this concept of Kaladin having to learn to not protect Moash from the deserved consequences of his actions, is really cool. I want it to be explored. However, Kaladin is already most of the way to swearing his 4th ideal at the end of OB, and the question of how he should respond to Vyre hasn't even really been asked yet. The 4th Ideal has to be in some way relevant to Kaladin's experiences in Kholinar and Shadesmar and Moash wasn't there for either.

Kaladin's inability to move on from failures and focus on protecting "people" as a whole rather than tunnel-visioning on saving individual people near him is a much more immediate problem and the thematic question he grapples with in OB. I will be really surprised if the 4th ideal is about anything else.

If the Moash question is raised during the course of RoW, as I expect it to be. Then I would say that your idea is an excellent candidate for 5th Ideal.

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It sounds reasonable - but how would MTG know the next oath?

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3 hours ago, Turin Turambar said:

It sounds reasonable - but how would MTG know the next oath?

I was not saying that MTG knows the next Oath. What I was saying is that the idea behind it, (admitting to not being able to protect everyone) sounds like it “could” be an Oath.

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I still think the Windrunner's fourth oath is something along the lines of allowing those who can to protect themselves.  It is the logical extension of the first oath "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves."  The fourth oath would be about NOT protecting those who CAN protect themselves.  Dalinar NEEDED to do that fight himself.  He NEEDED Kaladin to NOT protect him.  Adolin NEEDED Kaladin to protect him at that moment, but Kaladin was so focused on protecting the man he WANTED to protect, he was refusing to protect the man he NEEDED to.  He could not accept that people sometimes need to protect themselves.  He feels everyone is his burden, which is actually rather arrogant.  Not everyone is the burden of a Windrunner.  Only those who cannot protect themselves are the burden of a Windrunner.  

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This quote actually reminds me of the moment when Kaladin and his Dad have to give up on Rillir and focus on healing Roshone. I could see Kaladin having to face a similar situation where he has to do a "triage assessment" of those he can protect. This being an oath could go with that. I also like the idea of it hving more to do with leadership. I can't wait to see which direction it goes. :)

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Posted (edited)

 

I thought Kaladin could not swear his 4th oath because of the conflict <<parshmen friends vs guard wall friends>> - he could not pick a side, so he could not swear the ideal.

So his 4th ideal would be something like "I will protect even if it means killing my friends"... - and I suspect he will swear this ideal just before fighting Moash.

EDIT:

more on this, a windrunner in the tower gem cache said:

Quote

"My spren claims that recording this will be good for me, so here I go. Everyone says I will swear the Fourth Ideal soon, and in so doing, earn my armor. I simply don't think that I can. Am I not supposed to want to help people?"

So the 4th ideal is something about <not helping> people (or <some> people).

 

Edited by marianmi
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I got a feeling it would be somwthing like "I will lead those who can protect others, even if they may die protecting", that's why he couldn't say it. He can't let Tien die again. He's to afraid of letting his friends (possibly squires) go into danger to protect others. That's also why he assigned himself to the most dangerous shifts guarding people in WoR.

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My money’s still on this for the next oath

Truthwatcher_17.5

Does the Fourth Ideal of Knights Radiant for Windrunners go something like "I will forgive myself for those I've failed to protect"?

Brandon Sanderson

I will put you on the record for having guessed that, but you won't find the answer until a Windrunner is capable of figuring it out. 

Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2018)
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2 hours ago, Truthwatcher_17.5 said:

My money’s still on this for the next oath

Truthwatcher_17.5

Does the Fourth Ideal of Knights Radiant for Windrunners go something like "I will forgive myself for those I've failed to protect"?

Brandon Sanderson

I will put you on the record for having guessed that, but you won't find the answer until a Windrunner is capable of figuring it out. 

I know a lot of people think this but other then Kaladin I don't see this applying to any windrunners that we know of.  Also we know that to at least one third ideal windrunner this oath means not helping people(per the gem archive).

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2 hours ago, Karger said:

I know a lot of people think this but other then Kaladin I don't see this applying to any windrunners that we know of.  Also we know that to at least one third ideal windrunner this oath means not helping people(per the gem archive).

What would you say to a general oath being “I will except I can’t protect everyone” and Kaladin’s specifically including self-forgiveness?

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On 4/21/2019 at 9:42 PM, ZenBossanova said:

For instance, if the Jasnah/Political Marriage happens, and he becomes King, he is NOT going to like it. He would probably prefer death, but it would be excellent growth for him. 

Wait, is that a thing?

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