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How to stop the fused


Karger

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We all remember how to trap a spren you must "lure it in with something it loves."  At this point the fused are essentially spren whose only purpose is to kill humans.  When a fused reincarnates they need the body of a singer to inhabit that they identify by the gemheart.  What if team radiant harvested gemhearts from the singer dead and lured the fused into them perhaps by seeming to kill humans and attracting deathspren.  Would this work?

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I doubt that would work, since the Fused are under direct supervision by Odium, and most have some semblance of sanity left. The ones that are insane it might work on, but even then, I doubt it, because what they seem to "like" to be drawn in by is active singers who have bodies to co-opt (or stone, if it's the Thunderclasts).

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28 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Capture them, keep them alive but imprisoned as long as possible to break the resurrection cycle.  Prolong their lives by artificial means as long as possible.

Basically we need to build the Golden Throne from Warhammer 40k

Are you suggesting we make the Fused into god-kings and emperors of humanity? Because that seems like a really really bad idea.

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Trapping them would only be temporary (even if it's thousands of years) and seems cruel to do. They've been through enough.. Better to destroy them with Nightblood although that's a boring answer and would be tedious to do. 

In Oathbringer Odium mentioned he can withdraw what he gave them to make them cognitive shadows. "You will follow me, Turash, or I will reclaim that which gives you persistent life." - OB Ch. 118 

One of the Fused mentioned an agreement they made with Odium. I can't find it right now, it's not spelled out in detail but essentially these ancient singers were killed by humans who took their land and before their souls passed on to The Beyond Odium swooped in and made them an offer: join with me and I'll help you kill the humans and reclaim your land.

Maybe the not crazy Fused will decide they no longer want to wipe out all humans and willingly give up what keeps them around. Not sure if they can even do that, but I like the idea of the Fused seeing that Singers and Humans can live together. 

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3 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

Trapping them would only be temporary (even if it's thousands of years) and seems cruel to do. They've been through enough.. Better to destroy them with Nightblood although that's a boring answer and would be tedious to do.

As a side question: What happens to Odium's Investiture when a Fused is killed by Nightblood? Is it taken away from Odium? Does it lessen/weaken his bond to the Rosharan system (is he less Invested as when he would take back the power)?

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34 minutes ago, equinox said:

As a side question: What happens to Odium's Investiture when a Fused is killed by Nightblood? Is it taken away from Odium? Does it lessen/weaken his bond to the Rosharan system (is he less Invested as when he would take back the power)?

I think it gets mulched up and added to Nightblood's store of investiture, which leaks out as black smoke when drawn. I know there was a WoB in like November saying Nightblood is more invested than he was when he was created, meaning he's collected more through killing. 

If the black smoke is like his exhaust or waste then it probably eventually returns to the spiritual realm to be recycled. But, in the near term it is unavailable, but there is so much Investiture in the Cosmere it's a drop in an ocean. The loss of a willing, kinda immortal servant with thousands of years of combat experience is the bigger loss I think. 

Can't find the WoB I'm thinking of but this gets at it. He "feeds" on the investiture. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/21/#e4555 

Investiture can't be truly destroyed. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/171/#e8210

There is an older WoB where the existential question of "what happens to a soul if the person is killed by Nightblood". Brandon said in world some people think the soul still pass on to the Beyond, others think it is chewed up with the rest of the investiture and doesn't go Beyond.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/127/#e5074

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1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said:

Trapping them would only be temporary (even if it's thousands of years) and seems cruel to do. They've been through enough.. Better to destroy them with Nightblood although that's a boring answer and would be tedious to do. 

Bah, that's justice!  The fallen Watchers had to watch their half-human children be slain en masse, then were chained in the low valleys of the Earth for 70 generations until Judgement Day when they will be cast into the lake of fire. (Book of Enoch)

When you fight semi-divine beings, you go big or you go home.

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So killing Fused with Nightblood would decrease how much Odium is bound to the Rosharan system. Even if he loses some of his Investiture. 

Of course, he would also lose able fighters. But many of them are mad anyways. I always wonder, why he doesn't exchange these. He said he could easily take back what was given, but I am not sure this is true. Maybe this would break an oath he made with the Fused. Or maybe the sane Fused would not like to see that and then consider stopping fighting. Killing Fused - even with Nightblood - is not a solution. And I also don't think it is justice. Odium is the real enemy. He has to be dealt with, so that all living beings on Roshar can exist peacefully. 

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I like the idea of trapping the Fused souls in gems - it beats mass genocide. Even that has issues though, because some humans fought for Odium too. And then, Horneater and Herdazian are part parshendi, so are you going to kill them too, on a maybe? And what about everyone who may have some Horneater or Herdazian blood? 

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@Turin Turambar It's not necessary to get rid of all Singers or species that are related to them. The Fused as Cognitive Shadows are a different thing though. They are ancient, they are basically killing machines, some of them are batsh*t crazy and they even murder their own kind to get access to bodies (even if the prior owners of these bodies give them up willingly, they did not know what they are getting into as we see in the one Venli POV). Humans could make peace with Singers/Listeners, but Fused will never agree to that.

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They need new Herald(s) to lock them in Braize.  This will happen at the end of Book 5 and the gap between front 5 and back 5 books will be the gap between Desolations until the new Herald(s) break.

I think it will only be 1-2 people max though, causing the relatively brief desolation disruption.  Dalinar seems the most likely candidate.  My black horse bet is on Moash doing a 3rd act heel-face turn and using the powers he inherited from Jezrien to do the job as penance.

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The Oathpact is a flawed system, I doubt that happening so much. Also, Brandon has said Stormlight 5 will have a satisfying ending and Back Half will be "another story", so leaving it on a cliffhanger like that seems to contradict these statements. 

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On 4/16/2019 at 4:29 PM, Child of Hodor said:

 

In Oathbringer Odium mentioned he can withdraw what he gave them to make them cognitive shadows. "You will follow me, Turash, or I will reclaim that which gives you persistent life." - OB Ch. 118 

I wonder if this isn't the answer somehow to ending the Fused.  What if Dalinar, or someone else, is able to claim and remove whatever it is that runs the rebirth cycle.  

This might be how Jezrien was able to be killed?  Soul dagger claimed his....whatever.

Also interesting to note that the Fused are apparently incapable of defecting from Odium without sacrificing their semi-immortality.   I wonder if he can do this to them from anywhere, like with a wave of his hand.  Also wonder if it would kill them outright, or just make them mortal in the normal way.

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On 4/17/2019 at 1:23 AM, equinox said:

So killing Fused with Nightblood would decrease how much Odium is bound to the Rosharan system. Even if he loses some of his Investiture.

That's like saying that taking a handful of dirt into space makes the Earth smaller. It is technically true, but also completely meaningless.

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Side question: What if (after negotiations) Someone was able to persuade the fused to form Nahel bonds with the Singers, instead of possessing them?

If this does not work, I recommend stopping fused from leaving the gemhearts of dead parshendi, or calling 1-800-FusedBuster for a free, successful, fused removal.

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On 19.4.2019 at 1:25 AM, SwordNimiForPresident said:

That's like saying that taking a handful of dirt into space makes the Earth smaller. It is technically true, but also completely meaningless.

Yes. Of course. But why doesn't Odium just create more Fused? There must be a reason. The loss of Investiture doesn't hurt him much (like Earth isn't smaller if you throw a handful dirt into space). But somehow Odium wants to limit the amount of Investiture that is bound to Roshar. Thus, killing Fused with Nightblood doesn't hurt much, but may allow Odium to create new ones. Better to capture them somehow is what I mean...

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8 hours ago, equinox said:

Yes. Of course. But why doesn't Odium just create more Fused? There must be a reason. The loss of Investiture doesn't hurt him much (like Earth isn't smaller if you throw a handful dirt into space). But somehow Odium wants to limit the amount of Investiture that is bound to Roshar. Thus, killing Fused with Nightblood doesn't hurt much, but may allow Odium to create new ones. Better to capture them somehow is what I mean...

He's bound to Braize, not Roshar. He made the Fused before he was bound

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