ShardShaper

Can we discuss the Elephant in the room? (Hoid)

37 posts in this topic

Hoid's relationship to power like that of a Shard seems to be similar to Gandalf's views on the one ring. Even his not taking a shard when offered originally seems to be in that vein.

Besides, Hoid spent a goodly amount if time after the Shattering just going around the Cosmere and trying to understand how all the different magic works and if he can get it. So I'm with Rsharra on this - he does want to talk to or want to bring back someone from the beyond. Potentially the vessel of Adonalsium itself (if there even was such a thing), or maybe the original Hoid.

Edited by TheFoxQR
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I think we need to distinguish between Hoid's overall goal and his goal on Roshar (the latter probably being thwarting Odium, from the Letters and comments to Dalinar, IMO).

The "obvious" thought is that the overall goal is reuniting Adonalsium, but that seems too obvious/simplistic IMO. Still, I think there is some purpose to collecting Investiture from lots of different worlds beyond just amassing personal power.

Wild guess - there's a WOB that all the Investiture in the Cosmere became associated to a Shard at the Shattering, even if that Shard's Vessel isn't consciously aware of or involved with stuff off their planet or whatever. Maybe Hoid wants to change that, combining small bits of Investiture from all the Shards to create "pre-Shattering-style" Investiture of Adonalsium, not "filtered" through any particular Shard Intent/Mandate. If so, that would allow  'pure, unbroken' powers of creation to exist in the world again without "killing" the Shards or messing up everybody using the existing post-Shattering manifestations of Investiture.

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Im kinda with @Karger on this one. I don’t think he is a full shard, but I would not be surprised he he holds the left over bits and pieces of Adonalsium.

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On 7/11/2019 at 2:42 PM, Weltall said:

Given that story was true, one wonders just what happened to cause a god to start worshipping him by accident, like he mentions to Shallan in Oathbringer. :D

Harmony, maybe?  Depending on how their other correspondence went.

Edited by Lidolas
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He might be trying to accumulate enough varied sources of investiture to mimic 'prime' investiture?

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On 7/18/2019 at 5:26 PM, Truthwatcher_17.5 said:

Im kinda with @Karger on this one. I don’t think he is a full shard, but I would not be surprised he he holds the left over bits and pieces of Adonalsium.

Hoid can't be a mini-Shard because all Investiture in the Cosmere is associated with a Shard.  

However, there is a theory (which I don't subscribe to, but it's out there) that Hoid has merged with the Cognitive Shadow of Adonalsium (similar to the Stormfather with Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow).  

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On 7/11/2019 at 5:42 PM, Weltall said:

But yeah, that's Hoid that Lift was remembering. Given that story was true, one wonders just what happened to cause a god to start worshipping him by accident, like he mentions to Shallan in Oathbringer.

He may be talking about Nathis with its court of gods.  He may be talking about some group of spren.  He may be talking about the shard of humility(totally want that to be a thing).

14 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Hoid can't be a mini-Shard because all Investiture in the Cosmere is associated with a Shard.  

Yes but what if he is trying to disassociate himself from a specific intent that he fears contaminated him.

Edited by Karger
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Just now, Scion of the Mists said:

Huh?  Why would Hoid have an intent?  He's not a Splinter.  

But interacting with too much of any investiture alters your perceptions.

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3 minutes ago, Karger said:

But interacting with too much of any investiture alters your perceptions.

So you think that Hoid's overall goal in the story is to rid himself of the effects of various magics?  That doesn't seem nearly grand enough for Hoid.  

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3 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

So you think that Hoid's overall goal in the story is to rid himself of the effects of various magics?  That doesn't seem nearly grand enough for Hoid.  

Not quite.  I think that he only had the original magic to try and do something else and was succeeding until the shattering happened.  Something he thought would accelerate the processes but instead left him with an intent he did not want.  He went around gaining more magics but some intent stayed with him.  Perhaps once he has all magics he will be able to work at his original goal more effectively.

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On 19.7.2019 at 0:42 AM, First Witness said:

He might be trying to accumulate enough varied sources of investiture to mimic 'prime' investiture?

I'm thinking along those lines too. He's already a sortof lightweaver and now also gained rosharan lightweaving. I think he's setting up a "cosmic con" on some level by combining illusion magics to make an appearance of some kind. It's so much his essence of character to be misdirecting and sneaky that I would expect a grand scheme. Maybe faking prime investiture at the right place/person/entity/shard(s) in order to make them do something he wants.

Not a very specific theory, but I feel this direction makes sense for Hoid. Besides Brandon loves to make heist-plotlines as in MB, so possible?

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