Shard Wars

[Confused]

How do Shards fight each other? What are the “rules”? How do Shards enforce these rules? Are there other Vessel agreements? This post gives my answers to these questions.

Shard Rules

I think the “rules” that govern Shards flow more from their essential nature than from some pact among the Vessels. Brandon says Shards are a mix of cosmere “fundamental laws” (which he also calls “primal forces”) and personality. Shard names reflect a “charged term,” a “cultural component,” for that fundamental law: “Ruin” is entropy; “Preservation” is stasis; “Honor” is bonds. IMO, “Odium” represents some cosmere force that breaks Connections – a repulsive, “odious” force.

An earlier post goes into this idea in detail. Because each Shard’s fundamental law is unique to it, I believe for purposes of Shard Wars we need to focus on the fundamental law more than the Vessel personality that interprets the fundamental law.

Shard Pact

I do think the Vessels make some agreements before Shattering Adonalsium. Honor says the Shards must fight through a champion if their opponent so chooses. I suspect this is to avoid Vessel destruction (though that doesn’t seem to stop Odium).

Endowment’s letter to Hoid says the Vessels also agree not to interfere with one another. She says each Shard should reside alone on a separate planet, presumably to avoid mixed Investitures. She excuses Odium’s murder of Aona and Skai because their Shards shared their planet. By that logic, Tanavast also deserves his fate. Endowment dismisses Odium’s murder of Uli Da as ridding the other Shards of a future problem despite the murder’s violation of the non-interference pact.

Beyond these two agreements – a champion and non-interference – I’m unaware of other Vessel agreements. The multiple-Shard planets and the Shards’ non-reaction to Odium’s murders suggests no consequences for breaching the Shards’ agreements. The Odium Shard’s nature to break Connections makes Rayse’s breach of the Shard pact almost inevitable.

How Shards Fight

I believe Shards fight as a battle of fundamental laws/primal forces. Ruin’s Investiture decays/destroys. Preservation’s Investiture maintains the status quo. Honor makes Connections (bonds). Odium IMO breaks Connections. Even if Shards hold equal amounts of Investiture (which they no longer do), some fundamental forces may better suit Shard Wars than others.

Hoid thinks Rayse “holds the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards.” The power to break Connections allows Odium to sever the Vessel from its Shard, thus killing the Vessel. By contrast, Ati slowly “strangles” Leras (says Khriss) rather than kill him at once. Ati interpreted Ruin’s entropy law as decay (a slow death). Had Preservation equal power to Ruin, the two Shards would stalemate – Preservation instantly healing whatever decay Ruin throws at him.

I think some other Shard fundamental laws/primal forces are quantum physics (the physics of subatomic particles) - Endowment; fractals (the mathematics of complex patterns that are identical despite their size) - Autonomy; and transformation (mass-energy-Investiture conversion) - Cultivation. Even if you disagree with my premise, it might be fun to guess how such Shards would do in Shard Wars.

Hoid as Harmony's Champion?

What if Hoid is collecting the magic of multiple Shards because one will name him its champion? Harmony? Hoid knows the Shard pact terms and might be preparing to become a champion.

In fighting another Shard’s champion, Hoid would have more magic at his disposal. Maybe he can defeat all other Shard champions. The climactic fight features Odium's champion against Hoid - fitting. Will the cosmere end in Hate or Harmony?

Edited April 11, 2019 by Confused

[Calderis]

2 hours ago, Confused said:

I do think the Vessels make some agreements before Shattering Adonalsium. Honor says the Shards must fight through a champion if their opponent so chooses.

It is not if the opponent chooses. Odium had to agree. Which Odium did, and that agreement has limited him, leading to his acceptance of a deal with Taravangian. 

This all serves to imply that a shards given word is binding. 

2 hours ago, Confused said:

The multiple-Shard planets and the Shards’ non-reaction to Odium’s murders suggests no consequences for breaching the Shards’ agreements.

Possibly... But it's also possible that, as Leras' betrayal of Ruin, and his description of that betrayal as a loophole in the agreement, that shards are only bound to what they believe they were agreeing to. And With Honor at least, we know he does not believe settlement with Cultivation was a violation of what he agreed to. 

Quote

Mason Wheeler [PENDING REVIEW]

One of the Letters in Oathbringer suggests that the Shards had a pact to all go their separate ways. And some of them held to it and some of them didn't?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes.

Mason Wheeler [PENDING REVIEW]

Out of all of them, how is it possible that one of the ones that didn't is the one whose nature is to obsessively keep your word at all costs?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

He would argue that he kept his word.

Mason Wheeler [PENDING REVIEW]

Okay, so loophole.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

He wouldn't even call it a loophole.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

My only question, if this is the case, is what mental gymnastics does Rayse have to have done to act as he does? Because his use of their agreement as a justification is an excuse. 

Quote

Paladin Brewer [PENDING REVIEW]

Out of all the Shards, why does Odium go for Devotion and Dominion?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

He targets people with two kinds of ideas. Number one, he can argue they're breaking the rules they set out. And two, people he thinks are a good match for him, or a challenge, or a danger.

Oathbringer Houston signing (Nov. 18, 2017)

So either Rayse has some crazy Cognitive dissonance going on or there are no consequences as you suggest... But if so, why agree to Taravangian's deal after his assertion of "I need no one"? 

As to the rest of the post... I think you're aware of the places that I fundamentally disagree already, and I honestly have no idea how shard combat would, should, or could work. 

The only point that I have to question is... Hoid as a champion would require him dealing with his little Harm issue. 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Calderis

[Deathwielded]

This is an interesting Topic!

I like the idea of Shards "combat' each other using their intents. 

it could help to explain Cultivation's seemingly non-interference in the final desolation so far. It could be that instead of directly fighting she was "cultivating" Dalinar, Lift ect to be better champions or warriors to combat Odium's plans. 

One issue is that we see Vin take up Preservation in HoA and then uses it almost immediately to suicide with Ati. 

That seems highly out of character for Preservation's power, even if Vin wasn't a shard long enough to be fully influenced by the Intent.

 

there does seem to have been a pact and certain rules put in place by the 16 shards, but if they were so Binding I just dont see why a pact Hammer hasn't been dropped yet to punish an offender. However Endowment doesn't seem to view Odium's actions as breaking the pact made even though he is clearly interfering with other shards.

Maybe he can use the justification that he IS the pacts Hammer bringing Justice to the Shards that "broke" the pact? Devotion and Dominion AND Honer and Cultivation settled on the same planet. We just dont know enough about Ambition to assert she "broke" a part of the pact or anything she really did.  We know his final goal is to be the only Shard remaining.

 

We know Odium likes to Justify his actions and takes pains to make it seem like he cares about Sentient life. Calling himself Passion and saying he is the only one who understands, ect. I could see him making a case for why he splintered each shard he did to make it look like he is just being a good Shard while he schemes to divide and conquer the rest.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Deathwielded

[Lidolas]

20 hours ago, Calderis said:

The only point that I have to question is... Hoid as a champion would require him dealing with his little Harm issue. 

They just have to make sure the other champions are cognative shadows  

[Calderis]

18 minutes ago, Lidolas said:

They just have to make sure the other champions are cognative shadows  

Without physical bodies. 

His limit is on physical harm. 

[Karger]

23 hours ago, Confused said:

Odium IMO breaks Connections

I don't see Odium as a force for breaking connections I see him as a force of entertain or gravitational for emotions.  A black hole of of emotion hence a void.  The breaking of connections is a side effect.

5 hours ago, Deathwielded said:

One issue is that we see Vin take up Preservation in HoA and then uses it almost immediately to suicide with Ati. 

She saw herself as maintaining stasis by killing him the lesson that was at the core of her personality. 

Now as to Shard v Shard fighting.  I think that Shards generally fight through proxy hence a contest of champions and why Odium is so dangerous.  Most shards have a "week point" something that can be held hostage against their behavior if I wanted to fight preservation I would mess up his permanent society and break it down.  He would have to expose himself to stop me.  If I want to anger Ruin I make a permanent society he would hate that and expose himself to stop me.  This makes fight through proxy ideal.  It settles disputes and allows shards to go one their way without dying.  Because they are immortal they can always try again latter.  Odium's intent is to keep doing what he thinks he is justified in doing so he has no "week points" this way.  The only other way for a shard to injure another that we have seen is in HoA where Vin slams herself into Ati.  This requires a shard's power and if Ati had been less shackled to scadrial(he was invested their) or less stupid(he had gone several eons believing that preservation could not fight) he might have been able to "doge."  This is most likely why Odium keeps his investiture free I see him currently assuming a defensive posture on Braize so that Cultivation can't just finish him off.

[Confused]

@Calderis:

We Don’t “Fundamentally Disagree” on this Issue

On 4/11/2019 at 5:03 PM, Calderis said:

As to the rest of the post... I think you're aware of the places that I fundamentally disagree already, and I honestly have no idea how shard combat would, should, or could work. 

No, Cal, I don’t know where we “fundamentally disagree” on this issue. Brandon SAYS Shards combine personality and fundamental law/primal force. You previously said you didn’t think we knew enough to identify each Shard’s fundamental law or to guess how such law affects the Shard. Those views don’t conflict with this post. You’re just unwilling yet to speculate about these subordinate issues. I OTOH am perfectly willing to do so – hardly a “fundamental disagreement” – and I have firm bases for my speculations.

Fact-Based Theory on the Difference Between Shards

The 2018 WoB gives three examples of fundamental laws: Ruin (entropy), Preservation (stasis), and Honor (bonds). This 2017 WoB SHOWS how fundamental laws work in practice (quoted in part, bold added):

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What’s going in Stormlight is that people are accessing fundamental forces of creation and laws of the universe. They’re accessing them through the filter of Cultivation and Honor. So, that’s not to say, on another world you couldn’t have someone influence gravity. Honor doesn’t belong to gravity. But bonds, and how to deal with bonds, and things like this, is an Honor thing. So the way Honor accesses gravity is, you make a bond between yourself and either a thing or a direction or things like that and you go.

Honor grants magic through bonds: The Nahel bond (to make one a Surgebinder) and each time the Surgebinder uses an Honor-centric ability. Brandon says Windrunners and Skybreakers forge a bond between themselves and their desired direction to access gravity.

The 2017 WoB amplifies two earlier WoBs I often reference:

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2008:

As a note here, the powers granted by all of the metals – even the two divine ones – are not themselves of either Shard. They are simply tools.

The means of getting powers – Ruin stealing, Preservation gifting – are related to the Shards, but not the powers themselves.

Source (quoted in part, bold added).

2011:

One of the 'basics' of the magic in all of the worlds is that the energy of Shards can fuel all kinds of interactions, not just interactions based on their personality/role. I did this because otherwise, the Magics would all be extremely limited.

The 'role' of the Shard has to do with the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do. So, in Preservation's case, the magic is a gift--allowing a person to preserve their own strength, and rely upon the strength granted by the magic. While Hemalurgy has a huge cost, ending in net entropy.

Source (quoted in part, bold added).

These three WoBs show Shards magically differ only in their unique filter to Spiritual Realm power – “the WAY the magic is obtained.”  The 2018 WoB says Shards combine personality and fundamental law/primal force. I think it’s SOUND THEORY to conclude each Shard’s unique filter IS their fundamental law/primal force. This theory explains a lot about Shard behavior including Shard Wars.

For example, IMO magic users perform Intended (capital “I”) acts of entropy, stasis, or bonding each time they summon Ruin’s, Preservation’s, or Honor’s Investiture:

Ruin – Spiking sDNA, destroying evil, and converting attributes into Investiture are all Intended acts of entropy.

Preservation – Feruchemists Intend to return to their prior condition (the status quo) when they re-convert Investiture into attributes. The fixed (static) supply of lerasium and the Feruchemical gene limits the number of magic users and the strength of their powers. “Burning” metal allows Allomancers to draw Investiture through that metal’s static molecular structure.

Honor – The Nahel bond grants Surgebinding; yet the 2017 WoB quoted above says, “some of the [Surgebinding] magics lean more Honor and some [of] them lean more Cultivation.” Surgebinders exercise their Honor-centric abilities like Windrunning/Skybreaking through bonding.

Cultivation – Though the Nahel bond grants Surgebinding to all Knights Radiant, the 2017 WoB implies transformative magical abilities like Soulcasting and Progression come from Cultivation.

I’ve yet to see a cogent counter-argument from you or anyone else. You instead say you choose not to speculate on these issues. You apparently don’t find these WoBs as compelling as I do.

Theory-Making Approach

Cal, you’re imaginative, quick-on-your-feet, and my favorite debate partner. But I still don’t understand your analytic approach to theory-making. Our last exchange four months ago, on Allomancy’s thermodynamics and the meaning of “resonance,” ended with you claiming WoBs are as likely wrong as right (bold added):

On 1/1/2019 at 8:20 PM, Calderis said:

On 1/1/2019 at 8:02 PM, Confused said:

Cal, our analytical differences often come down to this: I’m more willing than you to take Brandon at his literal word. Whether it’s “resonance” or “unified cosmere rules” or the mists fueling Allomancy “like a metal” or “pathways to power” or “primal force,” I accept and try to reconcile Brandon’s statements and the concepts that underlie them. When in doubt, I think it’s the side to err on.

And I don't. Brandon has a team for a reason. He can't be an expert on everything. 

The vast majority of the time that he's at a signing he does not have his team with him. There's a reason we have conflicting WoBs, and ones where he states things that obviously conflict with the books. Brandon is amazing but he's not perfect. 

He makes mistakes in addition to not being perfect. 

Part of the issue, I agree, is that the rules have been refined as the story progresses. But taking the underlying mechanics to the literal definition of Brandon's word choices, when many things are done to serve the story first and foremost, is a good way to be disappointed in my opinion. 

These are valid points, but Brandon’s words are our only cosmere guide. Text foremost, but we shouldn’t belittle his commentary. The cosmere is Brandon’s invention. What he says goes unless there’s an obvious error. To do otherwise leads to an ad hoc approach inconsistent with Brandon’s self-description as an author-architect.

I think we should presume Brandon’s words are right and try to square his words with text and other WoBs. We should ignore his words only if we can’t place them in that broader tapestry. Context and subtext are vital.

I looked at more than fifty WoBs before concluding Brandon intends the technical meaning of “resonance” in his 2011 WoB that first describes Focus. Those WoBs show Brandon knows what a resonance is both technically and metaphorically. If you’re a puzzle-solver like me, you seek cosmere truth wherever you find it and don’t reflexively reject potential solutions.

Specific Responses

Now, to your specific comments.

On 4/11/2019 at 5:03 PM, Calderis said:

On 4/11/2019 at 2:12 PM, Confused said:

The multiple-Shard planets and the Shards’ non-reaction to Odium’s murders suggests no consequences for breaching the Shards’ agreements.

Possibly... But it's also possible that, as Leras' betrayal of Ruin, and his description of that betrayal as a loophole in the agreement, that shards are only bound to what they believe they were agreeing to. And With Honor at least, we know he does not believe settlement with Cultivation was a violation of what he agreed to. 

Endowment says the Vessels agreed not to interfere with one another. She interprets their pact to mean no multi-Shard planets. Ati, Leras, and Tanavast disagree.

But murder is “interference” beyond any interpretation. Endowment sniffs her nose while the other Shards do nothing. We can only conclude Shard interference bears no consequence.

On 4/11/2019 at 5:03 PM, Calderis said:

So either Rayse has some crazy Cognitive dissonance going on or there are no consequences as you suggest... But if so, why agree to Taravangian's deal after his assertion of "I need no one"? 

If we believe Taravangian, once Odium chooses to accept the challenger’s request for a champion, he is bound by his choice. Is there a cosmere Unbreakable Vow? But a deal with Odium is like a deal with the devil. Rayse will twist every circumstance and word to his advantage:

Quote

“Kharbranth,” Odium said. “The city itself, and any humans who have been born into it, along with their spouses. This is whom I will spare. Do you agree to this?”

“Should we write … a contract?”

“Our word is the contract. I am not some spren of Honor, who seeks to obey only the strictest letter of a promise. If you have an agreement from me, I will keep it in spirit, not merely in word.”

(OB, Chapter 122, Kindle p. 1217.)

Rayse refuses to write his word down. He comes to Taravangian only on Mr. T’s befuddled days. This allows Rayse to fudge or outright lie about his unwritten word.

His word itself is ambiguous: “The city itself, and any humans who have been born into it, along with their spouses.” The words “have been born” mean those who were born in the city, those to be born before Odium kills all other humans, and MAYBE, but not necessarily, those born to Kharbranth-born after that:

Quote

Present perfect progressive tense describes an action that began in the past, continues in the present, and may continue into the future. This tense is formed by using has/have been and the present participle of the verb….

The CEO has been considering a transfer to the state of Texas where profits would be larger.

Source (italics added).

IMO, Odium will interpret his “word” to allow him to kill everyone not born into Kharbranth as of when he kills Roshar’s other humans. When that generation dies, so does the city. In exchange for that nanosecond of human life, Odium gets to avoid direct war with Dalinar. Why risk himself if Taravangian can neutralize the mortal Bondsmith for him?

On 4/11/2019 at 5:03 PM, Calderis said:

The only point that I have to question is... Hoid as a champion would require him dealing with his little Harm issue. 

Good point. Maybe Hoid doesn’t have to “harm” another champion to defeat them? He can, for example, neutralize his opponent without causing “harm” (whatever that means). Maybe Hoid will adopt Preservation’s tactic and separate Odium’s consciousness from his Physical Realm Investiture? Your point's well taken.

@Karger:

Odium Break Connections

On 4/12/2019 at 2:06 PM, Karger said:

I don't see Odium as a force for breaking connections I see him as a force of entertain or gravitational for emotions.  A black hole of of emotion hence a void.  The breaking of connections is a side effect.

I think broken “people” Connections cause the emotional Void, not the other way around. Hate divides people and breaks the Connections between them. Ultimately, a hateful person cuts themselves off from everyone and falls into an emotional void.

Magic systems reflect both their Shard and their planet. On Roshar Odium breaks “people” Connections, but IMO his fundamental law/primal force can break any Connection. Dalinar’s last WoK vision and the OB Venli-Dalinar vision both show this, land and city disintegrating into a physical void. Only around Dalinar does physical reality reknit itself, as Honor’s Investiture bonds things together.

There’s tons of text evidence that Odium breaks Connections. As imagery, he is the Broken One. He tells Taravangian, “I don’t need anyone,” highlighting his lack of people Connection. Moash and others say, “I’m not to blame,” as they seek to shed the guilt, shame, and pain their people Connections cause. When Dalinar nearly succumbs to Odium in Thaylen City, he says, “Alone…So alone,” because his memories of murder extinguish his people Connections. Other examples include SLA’s central theme – Unity vs. Division.

I think Voidbinders break Connections to access Odium’s magic. Flying Fused, for example, by degree break or reinstate their Connection to gravity (up to one-G). They move in wider arcs than Windrunners who veer with sharp lashings. Their main tactic is to fall upon a target using normal gravity to accelerate. I imagine the flying Fused as gliders compared to engine-flying Windrunners. That partly explains the fuel usage differential.

FWIW, as metaphor I also imagine Odium as Freud’s id, Roshar’s unrestrained primal urges. (Think of the Unmade.) My “Roshar’s Freudian Mind” post asserts Odium’s id conflicts with Honor’s superego, society’s binding rules. Cultivation as ego tries to reconcile (transform) their conflict.

Questions About Champions

1. Does a champion have access to the full power of its Shard?

2. What happens to the Vessel whose champion loses?

3. What happens to the Shard whose champion loses?

What do you think?

[Karger]

4 minutes ago, Confused said:

I think Voidbinders break Connections to access Odium’s magic. Flying Fused, for example, by degree break or reinstate their Connection to gravity (up to one-G). They move in wider arcs than Windrunners who veer with sharp lashings. Their main tactic is to fall upon a target using normal gravity to accelerate. I imagine the flying Fused as gliders compared to engine-flying Windrunners. That partly explains the fuel usage differential.

But we have seen fused full on fly haven't we?

[Calderis]

2 hours ago, Confused said:

No, Cal, I don’t know where we “fundamentally disagree” on this issue.

You believe that Odium inherently "Breaks Connections." with the way I understand things, I don't see how he would be able to act on anything at all if that were the case. 

You believe that what the Fused are doing is Voidbinding. I, adamantly, do not.

2 hours ago, Confused said:

These are valid points, but Brandon’s words are our only cosmere guide.

And I have no issue with inferences from WoBs. I make them frequently, and they are the basis for many of my theories. Where this misrepresents what I was saying is that I take issue when we start reaching beyond WoBs into areas of real world science that we have little by which to gauge Brandon's depth of understanding. 

Your assertion on "resonance" relies on an in depth knowledge of metallurgy and physics that goes well beyond the scope of anything in the books, and as much research as Brandon has done in metallurgy we still have inconsistencies between the way aluminum and it's alloys function in books and in real life. 

You frequently make assertions about EMR and other types of areas not noted in the books at all... And these are where I take issue. 

WoBs are our best resource despite the inconsistencies... And inferences within Brandon's systems are something I actively use for speculation... I just am not going to make assumptions on things that Brandon may or may not know that reach outside of his creations.

Edit: to be clear I mean no offense by this. I make my own assumptions about the way things function and both expect to be called out on them, and do not expect anyone to agree with me on them. 

We all have different methods, we're all going to reach a variety of conclusions, and we're all going to decide for ourselves how thing work right up until they are confirmed or debunked that fine.

There's nothing wrong with the way you do things, and that not what I'm trying to say. I'm just not comfortable doing the same, and I find it hard to credit things we have no way to verify without further WoBs or in book text for support. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Calderis

[Confused]

Cal, I don’t begrudge your hesitance to speculate, though IMO you apply it selectively – (cough) Avatars. But you’ve never addressed the substance of my FACT-BASED theory. Unlike some things we quibble about, I think THIS THEORY IS IMPORTANT to understanding Shard nature and behavior. Please review it on its merits. If I didn’t value your input, I wouldn’t ask.

Let me summarize the KNOWN FACTS again:

1. Shards combine personality and fundamental law/primal force.

2. Brandon TELLS us Ruin’s, Preservation’s, and Honor’s fundamental laws are entropy, stasis, and bonds, respectively.

3. Brandon SHOWS us how Honor grants his magic through bonds each time a Surgebinder uses his Honor-centric powers.

4. Brandon twice says the only difference between Shards is “the WAY they obtain their magic [capitalization in original],” confirmed a third time by the 2017 “Honor bonds” WoB.

5. These three Shards’ magic systems show us that a magic user’s Intended (capital “I”) performance of an act of entropy, stasis, or bonding summons that Shard’s Investiture.

From these facts, I THEORIZE Shards obtain their magic through their fundamental law/primal force. This fact-based theory explains the behavior of one-third of the known Shards. (I exclude Ambition who has no known magic system.)

I do speculate about the other six known Shards (but not Ambition) and always say so. (Look, for example, at this post.) I extrapolate the theory to these Shards based on text and WoBs about their magic systems. I associate Endowment with EMR, for example, because Awakening drains “color” – reflections of visible light, a form of EMR. Regardless, if my guesses about these Shards’ fundamental laws/primal forces turn out wrong, the theory would remain valid based solely on the known facts.

On 4/18/2019 at 0:27 PM, Calderis said:

You believe that Odium inherently "Breaks Connections." with the way I understand things, I don't see how he would be able to act on anything at all if that were the case. 

You believe that what the Fused are doing is Voidbinding. I, adamantly, do not.

I do believe Odium inherently breaks Connections. My previous post cites lots of text evidence for my belief. As I say in the earlier post, OB’s moral polarity, the novel’s conflict, is Unity (bonding) vs. Division (breaking). OB’s first chapter is entitled “Broken and Divided.” Breaking Connections is how Hate translates into cosmere force.

On Voidbinding: IMO the three referenced WoBs show Brandon classifies magic systems by how they give magic to mortals, not what magical abilities they grant. The 2017 “Honor bonds” WoB shows the Nahel bond defines Surgebinding. Surgebinding’s transformative magic comes from Cultivation, but the magic system is still Surgebinding. Reason: Only Surgebinders get their magic through Honor’s Nahel bond.

Glys may give Renarin future sight, nominally a Voidbinding ability, but Renarin is still Surgebinding. He too gets his magic through the Nahel bond. This is no different than Lift, Jasnah, and Shallan using Cultivation’s transformative abilities while Surgebinding.

Breaking Connections to access Odium’s Investiture should “be able to act on anything” (or mostly anything). Brandon describes how this works in the 2008 WoB:

Quote

As a note here, the powers granted by all of the metals—even the two divine ones—are not themselves of either Shard. They are simply tools. And so, it's possible that one COULD have found a way to reproduce an ability like atium's while using Preservation's power, but it wouldn't be as natural or as easy as using Preservation to fuel Allomancy.

Source.

Certain abilities are more naturally Voidbinding (like future sight), and other abilities are more naturally Surgebinding (like flying). But any Shard can theoretically grant any ability.

Breaking a Connection to use an ability IMO doesn’t permanently break the Connection. Windrunners make multiple lashings (bonds), but when they release their lashings, normal reality and physics kick in. I believe the same is true of Voidbinders. They can allow their Connection to gravity (for example) to reassert itself in whole or part (up to one-G).

Glys IMO allows Renarin to break his Connection to time. This allows Renarin to see the Spiritual Realm’s multiple future possibilities, some of which (Renarin now knows) can be wrong.

On 4/18/2019 at 0:27 PM, Calderis said:

WoBs are our best resource despite the inconsistencies... And inferences within Brandon's systems are something I actively use for speculation... I just am not going to make assumptions on things that Brandon may or may not know that reach outside of his creations.

Nor do I make such assumptions. I know you and others often tar my theories as unfounded, but it’s untrue. You cannot point to a single of my theories that isn’t based on substantial text and WoB evidence. Even my speculations (which I always identify as such) stem from Brandon’s words. If I look outside Brandon’s words – as I do with scientific principles like quantum physics or resonance – it is only to understand his use of those principles. As a reminder, I looked at more than fifty WoBs where Brandon uses the term resonance before concluding he meant the technical meaning in the one about Allomancy’s Focus. That’s not assumption; that’s hard analytical work.

On 4/18/2019 at 0:27 PM, Calderis said:

Edit: to be clear I mean no offense by this. I make my own assumptions about the way things function and both expect to be called out on them, and do not expect anyone to agree with me on them. 

We all have different methods, we're all going to reach a variety of conclusions, and we're all going to decide for ourselves how thing work right up until they are confirmed or debunked that fine.

There's nothing wrong with the way you do things, and that not what I'm trying to say. I'm just not comfortable doing the same, and I find it hard to credit things we have no way to verify without further WoBs or in book text for support. 

1. I take no offense and hope my words give you none.

2. You should NOT “expect to be called out on” your assumptions. You should state them, and we can assess their reasonableness. But there’s nothing wrong with pre-conceived notions per se. Whether an assumption proves valid partly depends on how well the resulting theory explains known facts.

3. Different conclusions are understandable; different methods to reach those conclusions are not, at least when seeking cosmere “truth.” Your stated methods seem the same as mine, you just don’t take them as far as I do. I ask a lot of “why” and “how” questions. They lead me to answers that logically flow from the known facts, and I’m unafraid to state those answers. A theory’s best proof is how well it integrates our knowledge to explain a wide array of phenomena. My theory, I believe, fully explains Shards and their magic systems, even if some details about particular Shards may be off.

4. The real pitfall, I think, is how willing we are to modify our views in the face of contrary information. I’ve refined my theories many times based on new (to me) information. Many here are locked into their paradigms and never waver. I can launch into social commentary about this, but… Reflexive disagreement seems endemic to life and the Forum.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Confused
To correct WoB date.