Question about Shardblades and Nahel Bond

[Nick_TheGreek_Koro Spren]

Hello everyone (new to this forum).

 

So after reading the through the Stormlight archive, I started thinking about the following two (possibly ridiculous) things:

1. Can a person bond more than one shardblade?
2. Based on my understanding of how the nahel bond and the oaths work, seeing that the radiant's perspective plays an important role in stabilizing it, would a single person be able to swear two or more oaths, and bond more than one spren?

 

 

[John Flamesinger Idrian Monk]

Don't forget Nale, who in OB, showed Szeth that he is not only a Herald and therefor has an Honorblade, but is also a Skybreaker of the 5th ideal and has a shardblade. So in answer to your question: Kind of?

Edited April 7, 2019 by John Flamesinger
Typo

[RShara Unmade]

Yes, whether it's a "dead" Blade or a live spren Blade. However, with spren, you're going to have to do some fast talking to convince multiples to bond to you, plus holding true to two different sets of Oaths. So theoretically possible, but practically, very unlikely. You see Amaram with multiple dead Blades in OB.

[Dunkum King's Wit]

to add on a bit - it is defintiely possible to bond 2 dead shardblades, we've seen it happen.  as far as swearng oaths for multiple orders, it may be possible, but some combinations would probably be easier than others.  For instance the Edgedancer oaths we have seen so far relate to helping the downtrodden and forgotten members of society, while the skybreaker oaths are about keeping the law.  it is pretty easy to imagine these ideals clashing, for instance in the case of someone stealing to feed their family.  however these oaths seem pretty compatible with the protection based windrunner oaths we have seen, so it would probably be easier (but still pretty difficult) to become a windrunner/edgedancer than it would be to be a skybreaker/edgedancer.

[Weltall Voidbringer]

On 4/4/2019 at 7:25 PM, Dunkum said:

to add on a bit - it is defintiely possible to bond 2 dead shardblades, we've seen it happen.  as far as swearng oaths for multiple orders, it may be possible, but some combinations would probably be easier than others.

Let's not forget the Lightweavers either. They don't swear oaths beyond the First Ideal so they've got less pressure on them in that respect, as long as the truths they swear don't come into conflict with the oaths they swear to any other type of spren. of course as Shallan proves, things can get messy with those truths so it's certainly not an easy process, just potentially less restrictive.

A related factor would be having both types of spren get along. We know for example that Honorspren and Cryptics instinctively don't get along, even if there isn't any contradiction between the oaths someone would swear to the former and the truths sworn to the latter. Or as RShara elegantly put it, you'd have to do some fast-talking to make that work.

[Karger Unmade]

4 hours ago, Weltall said:

Or as RShara elegantly put it, you'd have to do some fast-talking to make that work.

Or be an extremely complicated person.  Perhaps if you had something like Shallahn's multiple personalities one of them could attract a different spren?

[robardin Bondsmith]

On 4/7/2019 at 1:36 AM, Karger said:

Or be an extremely complicated person.  Perhaps if you had something like Shallahn's multiple personalities one of them could attract a different spren?

The difficulty would not just be in "attracting" a different spren, or even a second spren of the same type (why not? - if hemalurgy can "stack" boost Allomantic power, you'd think the same would be true of boosting Surgebinding with stacked Nahel bonds for the same power). It'd be that a Nahel bond links a spren to "cracks" in a person's soul, where increasing the bond with advancing Ideals results in a tighter mesh (like an epoxy bonding level). If a spren bond has already formed, the person's "soul cracks" would already filled with spren-epoxy that can get tighter, but still fills the same gaps, right? So where is Spren #2 going to find purchase?

I would think that in order to bond two live spren, either the Surgebinder would have to bind both at the same time; or to get seriously spirit-cracked in a new way that the first spren hasn't filled in (and for the mechanics of the Nahel bond to be along the lines of "the bond fills in cracks at Stage 0 and then deepens the adhesion with each Ideal", where the first spren bond wouldn't "seep over" to cover the newer cracks).

In Shallan's case, I think (think?) her "split personalities" are manifestations of the same original spiritual cracks that Pattern is filling, the "intentionally lying to and about herself" cracks that kind of define a Lightweaver (or at least, defines her as a Lightweaver). I don't think "Veil" could become a Dustbringer separate from "Shallan" or "Radiant" the Lightweaver, because they are in fact still the same soul.

[Vanillaice Skaa]

You could swear to to different ideals, but they would have to be more harmonius than the Windrunners and Skybreakers. I could see a Bondsmith becoming a Windrunner. But the Intent of the person in general would have to be able to fit the characteristics of both orders.

[sora_xo Skaa]

Bonding more than one spren could potentially be scary as hell. I mean, imagine if someone could bond both the Nightwatcher (assuming she is actually a spren) and the Stormfather, that would be insane.

[Dunkum King's Wit]

4 hours ago, sora_xo said:

Bonding more than one spren could potentially be scary as hell. I mean, imagine if someone could bond both the Nightwatcher (assuming she is actually a spren) and the Stormfather, that would be insane.

would it be?  they'd presumably both make you a bondsmith, and while Stormfather might grant some extra abilities, becuase Honor is gone, I doubt the Nightwatcher would do the same.  i don't think you would necessarily be any different than if you just bonded the Stormfather.

[Lightblood Arteth]

So it's obvious that you can bond two dead blades (amaram proves this), you can't bond a dead and a live one at the same time (dalinar loses his blade when he bonds to stormfather), an honor blade can be mixed and matched with a live one or a dead one since it works on different terms, but two live ones would be difficult for sure. However I just see everyone talking about two live ones from different orders. But what if you just had two spren from the same Order? It would it work? What would be the result, compounded power. Or kinda like what happens when you spike a coinshot with another coinshot? just slightly increases their power?

[Weltall Voidbringer]

1 hour ago, Lightblood said:

But what if you just had two spren from the same Order? It would it work? What would be the result, compounded power. Or kinda like what happens when you spike a coinshot with another coinshot? just slightly increases their power?

Brandon gave us some information here when he told us that a Windrunner with Jezrien's blade would get some enhancement but the power of Surgebinding is more a factor of how strong the bond with the spren is and how much Stormlight you're using. So assuming you had two proper spren bonds, it seems like you should get a bigger boost (the honorblade's a bond as well, so even if it's shallower it suggests two Nahel Bonds would also stack) but the real question there is whether you could get two spren of the same type to bond one person. Just imagine how that could end...

Syl: Kaladin, I though there was something special between us, but you've been seeing another honorspren behind my back. Jerk! <Kaladin wakes up the next morning to find himself stuck to his bed with Adhesion>

[sora_xo Skaa]

16 hours ago, Dunkum said:

would it be?  they'd presumably both make you a bondsmith, and while Stormfather might grant some extra abilities, becuase Honor is gone, I doubt the Nightwatcher would do the same.  i don't think you would necessarily be any different than if you just bonded the Stormfather.

I was kinda wondering if you could convince the Nightwatcher to grant you boons without the curses. I don't know if the Nightwatcher has that much control over her ability, but bonding with someone could make her more coherent, like it did with Syl (again, assuming she is a spren). Isn't the Stormfather only as coherent as he is because he has the Cognitive Shadow of Tanavast?

[Dunkum King's Wit]

9 hours ago, sora_xo said:

I was kinda wondering if you could convince the Nightwatcher to grant you boons without the curses. I don't know if the Nightwatcher has that much control over her ability, but bonding with someone could make her more coherent, like it did with Syl (again, assuming she is a spren). Isn't the Stormfather only as coherent as he is because he has the Cognitive Shadow of Tanavast?

hard to say.  You might be able to make nightwatcher more coherent, but a spren can't really go against its nature, and i think the boon/curse setup is part of her nature.  I doubt she even could grant a boon without a curse.

[Impact Prelan]

Oathbringer spoilinger

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure Amaram had 2 dead shardblades in OB

[Weltall Voidbringer]

5 hours ago, Impact said:

Oathbringer spoilinger

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm pretty sure Amaram had 2 dead shardblades in OB

Pssst!

On 4/4/2019 at 6:52 PM, RShara said:

You see Amaram with multiple dead Blades in OB.

 

[Impact Prelan]

11 hours ago, Weltall said:

Pssst!

 

My bad.  Must have missed that one. Thanks for the heads up