Nomic - A Forum Game

[MiToRo94]

1 minute ago, Dr. Dapper said:

Dapper Anti Rule 15Act:

Anyone who posts a photo in relation to rule 15 loses all their Coolness Levels and 6 pounds of Eggs.

I do not support this rule.

New Rule Proposal:

Discarded Proposal: If any proposal has been left unapproved after a total of 24 hours, and during that time a number of players equal to the number necessary for approving it with a majority vote have been active, that proposal will immediately be dismissed and have to be re-submitted without any votes.

 

Rule 15:

Spoiler

 

[MetaTerminal]

The French Law and the Paradox of Retroactive Rulings are now in effect.

Rule 15

Spoiler

Existing Rules (ie rules that are in effect):

Spoiler

1. The Main Idea: Players take turns suggesting rules, or amendments to or the removal of existing rules.
2. The Voting Clause: Upon a majority vote of more than three players, said amendments or removals are taken into effect. (Note: no rule is exempt from this rule, including this one, unless superseded by another rule.)
3. The Winning Rule: The winning player shall be the first player that wins. When one player wins, all other players lose.
4. The Points Rule: The winning player shall be the first player to reach one million points.

6. The Literal Rule: All things, including rules, can be interpreted literally or not as they were intended, so long as it makes sense.

7. The Unnamed Proposal: just for clarification, voting for amendments should be in red and removals should be in green.

8. The Trading Rule: each player starts with 0 points. Players can give points to other players, or - with the agreement of said other player - ‘trade’ something for points. Once both players agree on the terms, the transfer occurs automatically.

11. Meta’s Clause: That every post that passes judgement (ie votes for or against) a rule must also propose a new rule. Should a vote be made without also proposing a new rule, then said vote is considered void until an associated rule is proposed.

12. First Law of Dapper: Points are to be hereafter refered to as Eggs.

13. Second Law of Dapper: Every ten Eggs you get your Coolness Level goes up by one.

14. Third Law of Dapper: Each Coolness Level make you cooler.

15. The Act of Dog Inclusion: Every post from here on out must have an image of a dog in it, real or fake, picture or gif, wordless or meme, so long as it's not inappropriate. The Act of Dog Inclusion also allows depictions of cats to fulfill its requirements.

18. The Original Version of the Rule of Honor: That anyone with the ability to modify the posts of others (mods/admins) or make minute, unnoticeable changes to the laws when listing them (Meta or anyone else who does) NOT be allowed to do so - no cheating, people.

20. The Negative Rule: Any player can have negative points if they have lost more points than they currently have, but a player cannot have more negative points than the total amount of points needed to win.

21. MiToRo's Rule of Punishment: Any post that breaks a rule that has been in effect for longer than 15 minutes - to give time for those who have simply not refreshed their page - shall cause that poster to lose 10 points.

25. The UNO Rule. If at any time, a post violates the rules, someone must point it out by quoting the post and saying ‘UNO!’ in order to implement any Egg changes or changes in game state - ie cheating in and of itself does not trigger any rules, but instead someone has to point it out. There is no time limit on UNO.

31. The Beginnings of Democracy: We have a poll and whoever gets the most votes is the president, who gets the ability to give up to 50 points to anyone but themselves.

36. The French Law: at any time, a member of the ‘public’ (ie a non-presidential person) may declare a vote to overthrow the president. If a majority vote is attained, the person who started the poll becomes the new president in the place of the old one.

39. The Paradox of Retroactive Rulings: Rules will never retroactively apply to posts made prior to the rule being voted into effect - unless directly stated otherwise in the rule. This applies to Eggs given or taken for certain kinds of posts, as well as rule infractions that would lead to any sort of punishment.

Proposed Rules:

Spoiler

5. The Equal Opportunity Act: any rule that discriminates based on the identities of players outside of the game (including screenname, rank, etc.) shall be considered invalid. (5)

9. Ene’s First Rule: one way for points to be given should be by awarding them to people based on rules of theirs that go into effect, three per rule. (5)

10. Ene’s Second Rule: I also propose the rule that players must keep track of how many points they have in their signatures, About Mes, titles, or in each of their posts on this thread. (3)

16. Voidus’ Law of Unfair Advantage: All those who support this rule shall gain two points for every point that is gained by someone who did not support this rule. (4)

17. Voidus' Rule of Potential Karmic Retribution: Should a player propose a rule to change the name of 'points', that player is to be referred to by the name they suggest changing points to, until such a time as the rule is adopted. (5)

19. The Rule for Meta’s Sanity: that Voidus be unable to edit posts in the thread for his own benefit, under threat of immediately losing the game; and that Rule 16 shall be considered irrevocably immoral and unimplementable, from now and in perpetuity, and that should it be passed Voidus will immediately lose the game. (5)

22. MiToRo's Rule of Forgiveness: Whenever a player has negative points, that player may post an apology - no shorter than 3 full sentences, and unique to each other player - to other players in order to regain 1 point per apology. (4)

23. Reputation Points Rule: For each reputation awarded to a post, that poster gains 10 points. (3)

24. Everyone Is A Winner Rule: Any time a proposal - new rule, amendment, removal, or any other rule adjustment - gains unanimous support, the proposer gains 10 points, while the first 2 supporters (after the original proposer) gain 5 points. Unanimous support here means that all players vote in favor of the rule until the rule goes into effect; once the rule would go into effect, future voters who vote against it will not affect the points given by this rule. (4)

26. The Self Punishment Act: If a player breaks a rule, they will be able to decide what their punishment is. (2)

27. The Fair Play Act: If a player cannot obey a rule for 'reasons' then they receive no punishment. (3)

28. The Act that Concerns the Frequency of Turns (or ACFT): as stated by the Main Idea, you may only create new rules or amendments on your turn. You may only take a turn if two other people have taken their turn between now and your most previous turn, or if you have not taken your turn in over 24 hours. You do not have to propose a rule on your turn (unless otherwise indicated, eg by Meta’s Clause). (5)

29. The Chessboard Rule: there exists a standard chessboard, originally starting as the starting piece positions for white and black. Each player may elect one piece on the board as theirs - during their turn, they may move their piece as per the standard rules of chess. Checking a piece (checks being defined as per standard chess rules) which is controlled by another player (the ‘recipient’) gains the moving player 100 points, and loses the recipient 100 points. Mutual checks provide no point increase or deduction for either side. (3)

30. The Rule that Says You’ve Lost the Game (or RSYLG): every player must lose the Game at least once every ten turns. Other players are morally obligated to remind players when this requirement due. To announce the fact that you have lost the Game, say in a post during which you have taken your turn, “I have lost the Game.” (4)

32. New Rule the First: New proposed rules must rhyme, this rule will last till the end of time. (3)

33. New Rule the Second: Every 10 eggs will be referred to as a "Basket". (4)

34. Participation Eggs: Once per 24 hour period, if a player makes a post and votes on all current proposals as well as submits at least one new proposal, that player gains 25 Eggs. (5)

35. Non-Participation Eggs: In any 24 hour period, if any player makes more than one post that does not include votes on all current proposals, that player loses 25 Eggs per post after their first without necessary votes. (5)

37. Fair Start: Any new player who starts the game after this point will begin with a number of Eggs equal to the player with the next lowest amount of Eggs - this could still be 0. (5)

38. Duel of Awww: Any player may challenge another player to a Duel of Awww, along with a bet amount. The challenger may bet any number of Eggs up to the current total Eggs held by the lesser of the two players; if one or both players has 0 Eggs, the bet is automatically set to 10 Eggs. The Duel of Awww begins once the challenged player accepts the duel in a new post. The public (all other players not participating in the duel) votes on which of the two duelers has the better animal picture - as per rule 15 - based on any arbitrary qualifications they would like. The animal pictures used for the duel will be the ones posted in the challenge post and the acceptance post, and must have both been a picture taken/drawn/created by the respective dueler. Once a majority vote has been reached, the winner gains the bet amount in Eggs and the loser loses the same amount, unless the loser has fewer Eggs - in the case of starting with 0 points - then the loser goes to 0 total Eggs while the winner gains 10 Eggs. (4)

40. The Taxation Rule: The US tax code applies in its entirety to all points gained in whatever manner. (2)

41. The Spikes Rule: Spiking newcomers in the Intro thread gives the spiker 100 points. This rule applies retroactively. (2)

42. The Rule of Exceptions: that rules that are multiples of 1, 2, 4, and 8 are exempt from rules that are multiples of 3. (1)

43. The Brevity Act: that there be a maximum of 50 proposed rules at any one time. Players may also vote to strike proposals from consideration - once a majority is reached, the vote is struck from consideration, and must be reintroduced and reattain all votes in order to reach a majority. (3)

44. The rule of rules actually meaning something: Any post that violates a rule shall be considered void of all meaning for the purposes of this game, specifically no votes in said post shall be counted, no rules proposed shall be voted upon, no points can be gained, no other rules that would apply any benefit or punishment outside of this rule shall take effect until said post is in accordance with all rules. (2 - ENE and Kidpen need to approve the amendment for their votes to count.)

45. The Maybe A Rule So We Can Actually Start Earning Eggs? Rule: At any time, any group of players (at least 2) may compete in any game available to them (whether online or in person, as long as it can be verified). Examples include, but are not limited to, a game of chess, a pokemon battle, a footrace around the world, etc... Upon completion of the game, the winner gains a number of Eggs equal to 100 x the number of other players (i.e. the winner gains 100 Eggs if the game was only between two players), and the losers lose 100 Eggs each, unless a different amount was specified in a challenge post to initiate the game. In the case of a tie, the following occurs: if all players tie for the win, no Eggs are gained or lost; if some but not all participating players tie for the win, each winner gains a number of Eggs equal to 100 x the number of losers / the number of winners, and each loser still loses 100 Eggs. (2)

46. The law of inactivity: If a player does not comment supporting a rule, then their vote will count as a no. (1)

47. The Discord of Disputes: In order to prevent this thread from being over-cluttered with meta-discussion (i.e. discussion about the game in a meta sense, not about the player, MetaTerminal), we should have a Discord channel for all meta-discussion. This channel should be completely exempt from all rules in order to allow for unrestricted discussion and quick resolutions to any disputes. If the players would like separate channels for other discussion (e.g. off-topic, new rule ideas without actually submitting them, commenting on particularly dramatic happenings within the game without cluttering up this thread, etc...) that will be allowed. This Discord channel would also be an good place to have easy access to a pinned list of all currently active rules and proposals. (1)

48. The President of Discord: In the event that we have a Discord channel and we have an elected president as per rule 31, the President will be in charge of keeping the Discord up to date. (1)

49. Dapper Anti Rule 15Act: Anyone who posts a photo in relation to rule 15 loses all their Coolness Levels and 6 pounds of Eggs. (1)

50. Discarded Proposal: If any proposal has been left unapproved after a total of 24 hours, and during that time a number of players equal to the number necessary for approving it with a majority vote have been active, that proposal will immediately be dismissed and have to be re-submitted without any votes. (1)

Proposed Amendments or Removals:

Spoiler

* That the Winning Rule be ammended so that the authors of this and the next two posts directly after it be the winners. (2)

* In reference to the First Law of Dapper: 'Eggs' will be changed to a lowercase 'eggs'. (4)

* I would like to amend my own rule (16. Voidus’ Law of Unfair Advantage) to addend the following: No rule or ammendment may be passed or voted on if that rule would alter any part of Voidus’ Law of Unfair Advantage or punish those who have voted in favour of Voidus' Law of Unfair Advantage. And no person who has only conditionally voted in favour of Voidus’ Law of Unfair Advantage shall count as having voted for it, except for the purposes of passing the rule. (1)

* To change the name of the rule from The Act of Dog Inclusion to The Act of Animal Inclusion, and to allow depictions of any animal to fulfill its requirements, so long as the poster genuinely appreciates the animal being posted - whether that is in cuteness, silliness, or any other positive feeling. (5)

* amendment to 15: You must use a picture different from every picture you've used so far. The Internet is big, there are enough. (1)

Edited April 1, 2019 by MetaTerminal

[Voidus]

Spoiler

UNO!
Meta's above post is in violation of Rule 12. Eggs are called Eggs, not anything else.

[MetaTerminal]

5 minutes ago, Voidus said:

  Hide contents

UNO!
Meta's above post is in violation of Rule 12. Eggs are called Eggs, not anything else.

However - I have been abiding by the Original Rule of Honor - it is impossible for me to follow the First Law of Dapper and the Original Rule of Honor at the same time. With y’alls agreement, I shall be exempted from any violations caused by reposting the rules in their specificity and entirety. (Otherwise, I won’t post the rules, which means we will all get terribly confused.)

EDIT: In addition, the UNO Rule specifies that the offending post must be quoted in order for the UNO to apply.

Edited April 1, 2019 by MetaTerminal

[Voidus]

1 minute ago, MetaTerminal said:

However - I have been abiding by the Original Rule of Honor - it is impossible for me to follow the First Law of Dapper and the Original Rule of Honor at the same time. With y’alls agreement, I shall be exempted from any violations caused by reposting the rules in their specificity and entirety. (Otherwise, I won’t post the rules, which means we will all get terribly confused.)

Spoiler

The Original Rule of Honor specifies that changes must be unnoticeable, changes which can be noticed do not violate the Original Rule of Honor and calling UNO predicates that someone has noticed a rules violation, therefore no one can call UNO on a violation of the Original Rule of Honor

[MetaTerminal]

Just now, Voidus said:

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The Original Rule of Honor specifies that changes must be unnoticeable, changes which can be noticed do not violate the Original Rule of Honor and calling UNO predicates that someone has noticed a rules violation, therefore no one can call UNO on a violation of the Original Rule of Honor

I call attention to the Literal Rule - the Original Rule of Honor clearly implies that attempts to make unnoticeable changes (regardless of whether or not they are noticed) are a violation. The intended meaning (interpreted as such from Rule 6) thus means that UNO can be called on violations of the Original Rule of Honor, and as such a contradiction has been caused.

[MacThorstenson]

12 minutes ago, Voidus said:

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UNO!
Meta's above post is in violation of Rule 12. Eggs are called Eggs, not anything else.

 

5 minutes ago, Voidus said:

  Reveal hidden contents

The Original Rule of Honor specifies that changes must be unnoticeable, changes which can be noticed do not violate the Original Rule of Honor and calling UNO predicates that someone has noticed a rules violation, therefore no one can call UNO on a violation of the Original Rule of Honor

 

3 minutes ago, MetaTerminal said:

I call attention to the Literal Rule - the Original Rule of Honor clearly implies that attempts to make unnoticeable changes (regardless of whether or not they are noticed) are a violation. The intended meaning (interpreted as such from Rule 6) thus means that UNO can be called on violations of the Original Rule of Honor, and as such a contradiction has been caused.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe all of these are in violation of rule 15?

EDIT: The dog picture won't load, and I am just seeing voiduses cats so ignore the first two.

EDIT 2: Also need to call UNO!

Edited April 1, 2019 by MacThorstenson

[MetaTerminal]

Just now, MacThorstenson said:

 

 

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe all of these are in violation of rule 15?

 

 

No - images inside quote boxes count. Which is why your post is also not a violation of rule 15.

[MacThorstenson]

Just now, MetaTerminal said:

No - images inside quote boxes count. Which is why your post is also not a violation of rule 15.

See my edit

EDIT read that wrong ok

Edited April 1, 2019 by MacThorstenson

[Voidus]

Just now, MetaTerminal said:

I call attention to the Literal Rule - the Original Rule of Honor clearly implies that attempts to make unnoticeable changes (regardless of whether or not they are noticed) are a violation. The intended meaning (interpreted as such from Rule 6) thus means that UNO can be called on violations of the Original Rule of Honor, and as such a contradiction has been caused.

I call attention to the fact that my interpretation of the literal rule is that it could be interpreted as meaning that any rule can be interpreted either literally or not-as-intended (Deliberately interpreting the rule in a different way than intended) so long as the interpretation makes sense.
I acknowledge that this is likely not the intended interpretation of the literal rule but according to the literal rule I may interpret the literal rule in a way that is not intended, so long as it makes sense.

 

Spoiler

 

[MetaTerminal]

Just now, Voidus said:

I call attention to the fact that my interpretation of the literal rule is that it could be interpreted as meaning that any rule can be interpreted either literally or not-as-intended (Deliberately interpreting the rule in a different way than intended) so long as the interpretation makes sense.
I acknowledge that this is likely not the intended interpretation of the literal rule but according to the literal rule I may interpret the literal rule in a way that is not intended, so long as it makes sense.

 

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See my discussion with Kidpen - we determined how the Literal Rule should be parsed, which clearly states that your view here is incorrect.

Spoiler

 

[AonEne]

2 hours ago, Voidus said:

I don't want to put the first one to a formal vote, I just thought it would be amusing

Basically I edited my post before you voted in favour of it so you quoted an old version which was lacking the following addition: Any action outside of a post which violates a rule shall be considered to have not happened for all purposes of this game.

Which basically just means that things other than posts are also considered void for the purposes of this game if they do not follow the rules. (Eg. Editing an existing post would not allow the edit to have any meaning in the game as per rule 18, so I couldn't edit your vote of not supporting something to be a vote of supporting something as that edit would not exist for the purposes of this game)

I continue to support this.

1 hour ago, MetaTerminal said:

The Beginnings of Democracy is now in effect - once we decide on what form we shall take the poll, we shall do so.

You can make a poll for the thread, and we can use that.

51 minutes ago, MiToRo94 said:

New Rule Proposal:

Maybe A Rule So We Can Actually Start Earning Eggs?: At any time, any group of players (at least 2) may compete in any game available to them (whether online or in person, as long as it can be verified). Examples include, but are not limited to, a game of chess, a pokemon battle, a footrace around the world, etc... Upon completion of the game, the winner gains a number of Eggs equal to 100 x the number of other players (i.e. the winner gains 100 Eggs if the game was only between two players), and the losers lose 100 Eggs each, unless a different amount was specified in a challenge post to initiate the game. In the case of a tie, the following occurs: if all players tie for the win, no Eggs are gained or lost; if some but not all participating players tie for the win, each winner gains a number of Eggs equal to 100 x the number of losers / the number of winners, and each loser still loses 100 Eggs.

I support this.

50 minutes ago, Dr. Dapper said:

The law of inactivity. 

If a player does not comment supporting a rule, then their vote will count as a no.

Isn't that what we're already doing?

25 minutes ago, MiToRo94 said:

The Discord of Disputes: In order to prevent this thread from being over-cluttered with meta-discussion (i.e. discussion about the game in a meta sense, not about the player, MetaTerminal), we should have a Discord channel for all meta-discussion. This channel should be completely exempt from all rules in order to allow for unrestricted discussion and quick resolutions to any disputes. If the players would like separate channels for other discussion (e.g. off-topic, new rule ideas without actually submitting them, commenting on particularly dramatic happenings within the game without cluttering up this thread, etc...) that will be allowed. This Discord channel would also be an good place to have easy access to a pinned list of all currently active rules and proposals.

The President of Discord: In the event that we have a Discord channel and we have an elected president as per rule 31, the President will be in charge of keeping the Discord up to date.

I can't use Discord, and I know I'm not the only one, so I don't support this. I suggest this instead:

The PM of Productivity: Same thing, but with a PM. I'm fine there being a President of the PM also.

16 minutes ago, MiToRo94 said:

Discarded Proposal: If any proposal has been left unapproved after a total of 24 hours, and during that time a number of players equal to the number necessary for approving it with a majority vote have been active, that proposal will immediately be dismissed and have to be re-submitted without any votes.

I do not support this.

[Voidus]

10 minutes ago, MetaTerminal said:

See my discussion with Kidpen - we determined how the Literal Rule should be parsed, which clearly states that your view here is incorrect.

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But that discussion would only be relevant if we already interpreted the literal rule in the manner that you interpret it.

Edit: To clarify; the existence of the literal rule itself implies that prior to its implementation that rules could be taken in any logical interpretation of the rule, regardless of the intention of the author. The literal rule's own interpretation must then not be exempt from this.

[MetaTerminal]

5 minutes ago, Voidus said:

But that discussion would only be relevant if we already interpreted the literal rule in the manner that you interpret it.

Which we do, since that’s what we determined beforehand - the Literal Rule has already been interpreted as contradictory to what you are claiming, and thus your attempts to reinterpret it are incorrect, due to the Literal Rule.

16 minutes ago, Voidus said:

I call attention to the fact that my interpretation of the literal rule is that it could be interpreted as meaning that any rule can be interpreted either literally or not-as-intended (Deliberately interpreting the rule in a different way than intended) so long as the interpretation makes sense.
I acknowledge that this is likely not the intended interpretation of the literal rule but according to the literal rule I may interpret the literal rule in a way that is not intended, so long as it makes sense.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

You have violated the Literal Rule. UNO! You lose ten Eggs.

[Voidus]

1 minute ago, MetaTerminal said:

Which we do, since that’s what we determined beforehand - the Literal Rule has already been interpreted as contradictory to what you are claiming, and thus your attempts to reinterpret it are incorrect, due to the Literal Rule.

By what rule did you determine this? So far as I have seen this was simply one person asserting their own interpretation of it, and again the existence of the literal rule itself implies that simply drafting a rule gives you no special rights to interpret it barring the existence of a rule explicitly stating that.

Also, just a note that the literal rule states that ALL things must be interpreted in the manner consistent with the literal rule, so if we were to accept your interpretation of it then I could simply state that since my intention for my post was not to violate the literal rule that I have therefore not violated the literal rule and your interpretation of something else is, in itself, a violation of the literal rule unless you intended otherwise.

[AonEne]

Quote

31. The Beginnings of Democracy: We have a poll and whoever gets the most votes is the president, who gets the ability to give up to 50 points to anyone but themselves.

I would like to nominate myself.

...I'd chime in with your discussion, but I'm having a slight bit of trouble wrapping my head around it.

[Voidus]

Just now, AonEne said:

I would like to nominate myself.

...I'd chime in with your discussion, but I'm having a slight bit of trouble wrapping my head around it.

I'm rules lawyering.

[AonEne]

1 minute ago, Voidus said:

I'm rules lawyering.

Okay. When the poll for president happens, can anyone vote or only players? The rule doesn't specify. I'd say anyone, if it were up to me...

[Kidpen]

3 minutes ago, Voidus said:

I'm rules lawyering.

I considered doing the same, but then I gave up.

Clarification, why does it take 6 votes to make a rule happen?

Edited April 2, 2019 by Kidpen

[MetaTerminal]

2 minutes ago, Voidus said:

By what rule did you determine this? So far as I have seen this was simply one person asserting their own interpretation of it, and again the existence of the literal rule itself implies that simply drafting a rule gives you no special rights to interpret it barring the existence of a rule explicitly stating that.

Also, just a note that the literal rule states that ALL things must be interpreted in the manner consistent with the literal rule, so if we were to accept your interpretation of it then I could simply state that since my intention for my post was not to violate the literal rule that I have therefore not violated the literal rule and your interpretation of something else is, in itself, a violation of the literal rule unless you intended otherwise.

I propose a new rule.

The Internal Consistency Plea: that the Literal Rule be rephrased as “All things, including rules, can be interpreted literally or metaphorically - as they were assumed to be intended - so long as it makes sense; and that any associated implications of the rule not explicitly stated should also be interpreted as true - this includes taking the spirit of a rule, even if the actual letter of the rule differs slightly due to a small technicality. This plea applies retroactively.”

I support this rule, and invite everyone else to also support it so the game can actually continue without completely deteriorating.

[Kidpen]

1 minute ago, MetaTerminal said:

I propose a new rule.

The Internal Consistency Plea: that the Literal Rule be rephrased as “All things, including rules, can be interpreted literally or metaphorically - as they were assumed to be intended - so long as it makes sense; and that any associated implications of the rule not explicitly stated should also be interpreted as true - this includes taking the spirit of a rule, even if the actual letter of the rule differs slightly due to a small technicality. This plea applies retroactively.”

I support this rule, and invite everyone else to also support it so the game can actually continue without completely deteriorating.

I do not support this.

[MiToRo94]

3 minutes ago, AonEne said:

I would like to nominate myself.

You will have my vote (once a poll goes up)!

 

Spoiler

 

[Kidpen]

I would like to nominate this guy named Tristan who is in my house right now to be president.

[MacThorstenson]

I don't support meta's rule and instead offer this rule:

The not internally consistent rule:

No rules have to be consistent with anything. Even themselves.

[Voidus]

I do not support this rule.
One person have complete authority over the interpretation of a rule spoils a lot of fun, more thorough drafting of rules should be encouraged to avoid loopholes such as the ones I am currently exploiting and because as mentioned applying this rule to everything essentially gives people freedom to ignore rules as long as their intention was to follow rules.


Proposed rule:
Voidus law of mayhem:
People should be able to interpret anything in any logically consistent manner.