Part Singer Human Evidence

[Chromium Compounder]

While relistening to Oathbringer again, I was on the part from Rock’s POV, and I was remembering that I heard on shardcast that Brandon confirmed that there are part human singers.  I couldn’t find it in arcanum, but I thought they said that these include the Herdazians and the horn eaters.  They listed the herdazian fingernails as evidence of their singer heritage.

Anyway, so in Rock’s POV there’s a part where he is cooking and thinking of when he would cook with his mom and she would hum.  He felt like he could almost hear her humming sometimes.  I think he’s faintly hearing the rhythms.

Any other signs you guys have caught?

[+Invocation]

Yeah, there's that, Horneaters eating shells and stuff (*shudder* throat teeth), the ability to see most spren. There's a few.

[Bigmikey357]

Another indicator are Horneater teeth, suited to eat shells and of course their ability to see more into the CR than normal unpowered humans.

[Agent34]

But not all Horneaters can see as Rock do.

[Calderis]

9 minutes ago, Agent34 said:

But not all Horneaters can see as Rock do.

It's not. And it's also not limited to them. 

Quote

Mandi

Both Parshendi and Horneaters are able to see spren, ordinary humans can't. Is there a connection between these abilities, or do they come from completely different sources?

Brandon Sanderson

Horneaters are human/Parshendi hybrids. (There are several Roshar races that have Parshendi blood in them.)

Goodreads: Ask the Author Q&A (Aug. 13, 2014)

It stands to reason, since singers can all see spren, and anyone with singer has the chance... That the higher the percentage the more likely the ability. 

[ZenBossanova]

Now, what about the Parshmen? 

Are some of them  part-human? 

And just how will being mixed-heritage affect the kind of Nahel bond they make?

We have already seen Rock use a shardbow, when that shouldn't be possible. 

[Agent34]

4 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

Now, what about the Parshmen? 

Are some of them  part-human? 

And just how will being mixed-heritage affect the kind of Nahel bond they make?

We have already seen Rock use a shardbow, when that shouldn't be possible. 

The parshmen are pure singer, just lobotomised and enslaved. The listeners also don't have human ancestry.

We're not aware if being a mix affects the Nahel bond but both Lopen and Rock seem to have fairly normal situations (besides the grandbow moment). It'll be worth watching them and Venli to see if singer physiology or ancestry provides anything different.

[ZenBossanova]

9 hours ago, Agent34 said:

The parshmen are pure singer, just lobotomised and enslaved. The listeners also don't have human ancestry. 

And how would any of us know that? We don't know it. 

I expect these mixed race (of literal different races) people will form unique bonds, that will play a role. 

[Ahriman]

Isn't Shallan part Singer? I remember reading that red hair was a sign of Horneater blood. If so, I don't think her bond seems that unique, other than the deal with truths instead of oaths, but that's because of Pattern, not her.

[+Invocation]

2 hours ago, Ahriman said:

Isn't Shallan part Singer? I remember reading that red hair was a sign of Horneater blood. If so, I don't think her bond seems that unique, other than the deal with truths instead of oaths, but that's because of Pattern, not her.

It's very far away, but yes the red hair of the Vedens means shared ancestry with the Horneaters. Hence why Rock refers to Shallan as cousin. The Truths thing is just what Lightweavers do, though, yeah.

[Aminar]

On 3/30/2019 at 7:58 PM, Ahriman said:

Isn't Shallan part Singer? I remember reading that red hair was a sign of Horneater blood. If so, I don't think her bond seems that unique, other than the deal with truths instead of oaths, but that's because of Pattern, not her.

Maybe. Sort of. Depending how her genetics lined up. The Red Hair part could have nothing to do with being part Singer. I think we'd know if she had some of the more overt features. 

[ZenBossanova]

4 hours ago, Aminar said:

Maybe. Sort of. Depending how her genetics lined up. The Red Hair part could have nothing to do with being part Singer. I think we'd know if she had some of the more overt features. 

Red hair is indicative of Horneater ancestry. 

Both Horneater and Herdazians are verified to have Parshmen ancestry. For Shallan it is just a bit more dilute. 

[Angsos]

@ZenBossanovathe parshman and parshendi are the same, it's just that humans enslaved a large part of the Parsh while a fraction remained free.

[Chromium Compounder]

A new thought occurred to me.  Listeners only ever talk about mating when in mate form, but we know that parshmen (slave form) are capable of breeding.  I think of slave form as being like the default form.  I know there’s more to it than that.  They lost something more than just the ability to bond spren, but what I mean is that I don’t think there’s anything that they would be capable of in slave form that they wouldn’t be capable of in every other form.  Which means that while they may not be inclined to mate when not in mate form, that they should still be capable of it.  

So that brings up this question: What if the different races of humans with singer ancestry come from couplings with singers of different forms?  That could explain why their singer heritage manifests in different ways.  

I picture horneaters being from a warform, or perhaps a work form.  Not sure what the herdazians would be from.  Also I’m wondering if Thaylen eyebrows might be a sign of singer heritage.  They could be from nimble form maybe.

[Agent34]

That theory's come up before. As for breeding in different forms you're correct in that it can happen outside of mateform as the forms are specialisations, not the only form in which something can be done. 

Quote

RenegadeShroom

You said earlier that Parshendi are primarily asexual, does that extend to all Listeners -- parshmen, and those descended from Listeners, like Horneaters and Herdazians -- or is it just the Parshendi?

Brandon Sanderson

Most Listener forms are asexual, but several forms are different, including slaveform. Horneaters and Herdazians are not, as a rule, though there are higher instances of asexuality among them.

uchoo786

I was actually wondering about how Parshmen would reproduce if they are only in slaveform? I thought one had to be in mateform in order to reproduce?

Also, could Horneaters and Herdazians change forms as well?

Brandon Sanderson

For the first, mateform is not the only form capable of producing--any more than warform is the only one capable of swinging a sword. The forms are specializations.

For the second, RAFO.

/r/books AMA 2015 (May 19, 2015)

 

[Chromium Compounder]

Cool.  I hadn’t seen that before.  Doesn’t quite address what I was saying, but it does support the theory.

[Calderis]

While they are "specializations," I still think that some would be physically incapable. 

Particularly Warform. Carapace armor is probably not the most conducive thing for the act of mating... 

[ZenBossanova]

53 minutes ago, Calderis said:

While they are "specializations," I still think that some would be physically incapable. 

Particularly Warform. Carapace armor is probably not the most conducive thing for the act of mating... 

Women love a man in uniform. 

[Angsos]

That never occurred to me about parshmen but where does the next generation come from?

[Calderis]

35 minutes ago, Angsos said:

That never occurred to me about parshmen but where does the next generation come from?

They can breed normally, it's just rarely successful... Sah has a daughter and it's a major point in his reason for hating humans in that her mother was sold for a high value from having successfully produced a child.