Could Vax be the Tranquiline Halls?

[Arteth Chris]

I finished Mistborn: A Secret History last night and read Ati's enigmatic last word, 'Vax'. I checked out the theories and it seems most revolve around what Ati is seeing. I wondered though whether his comment is based, not on where he is and what he sees, but based on where he expected to be. It got me thinking- where was he expecting to end up when he died? Good Vorins on Roshar expect to go to the Tranquiline Halls. What if they are a real place like Damnation is a real place (Braize)? What if Vax is the real Cosmere name of the Tranquiline Halls (whatever they are- a place, a planet)?

[+Invocation]

The Tranquiline Halls is Ashyn, another planet in the Rosharan system. Vax is something different.

Plus, Ati is not from Roshar, as there were no humans on Roshar until after the decimation of Ashyn (which gave rise to the myth of the Halls), by which time he was probably already trapped by Leras on Scadrial.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Invocation

[RShara]

I know he recognizes her, but that doesn't mean he was there before humans. Just that he was there at a time when they didn't have active hostilities.

[Karger]

That does not necessarily mean that Vax is not Ashyn.  We do know that Hoid visited Roshar and I believe that was before humans arrived there so it is possible that Ati visited the system before building Scadrial with Preservation.  Ati also had the vast abilities of a shard which would allow him to see Ashyn if he wanted to. That being said we have no evidence of any shard even visiting the system at any time before Cultivation and Honor arrived and I do not know of any similarity between Ashyn, Roshar and Scadrial's cognitive realm.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Karger

[RShara]

38 minutes ago, Karger said:

We do know that Hoid visited Roshar before humans arrived there

Hmmm where is this stated?

[Karger]

8 minutes ago, RShara said:

Hmmm where is this stated?

OB end when he is seeking past a fused guard and recognizes her from the days of the dawnsingers.  Perhaps humans are new arrivals but from what we know war started fairly quickly once they arrived.

[Calderis]

He mentions that he danced with her once... Which is also very similar to some of "Ahu's" ramblings. 

[Arteth Chris]

I'd totally missed that the Tranquiline Halls were already accounted for as Ashyn. Though I am still wondering whether Vax could be some sort domain of the dead, be it a planet or a place in the cognitive realm. Perhaps Ati hoped to appear there after died. So his statement 'Vax?' would mean something along the lines of 'Is this Heaven?' Only to be punched by Kelsier! If the heralds can be sent to Braize after physical death on Roshar, perhaps there are other places you can go on other worlds? Perhaps Vax is one of those places, named or so far un-named?

[Karger]

Heralds go to Braize because of the oathpact normal people go beyond(we don't actually know what this means) same as in real life.

[Karger]

10 hours ago, RShara said:

I know he recognizes her, but that doesn't mean he was there before humans. Just that he was there at a time when they didn't have active hostilities.

We know that this time was quite short.

10 hours ago, Calderis said:

He mentions that he danced with her once... Which is also very similar to some of "Ahu's" ramblings. 

Hoid is crazy but I do not think that he is that crazy.

[Arteth Chris]

59 minutes ago, Karger said:

Heralds go to Braize because of the oathpact normal people go beyond(we don't actually know what this means) same as in real life.

What I'm saying is that it opens the possibility of there being a sort of afterlife of sorts for some, apart from 'the beyond'. We know there are several groups that exist after death (the fused, heralds, shades, the returned) There's something about the Oathpact that makes heralds not go to 'the beyond' when they die. What if there were other versions of this elsewhere, that can bypass the beyond? Also Ati was not a 'normal' person, he was a vessel, perhaps he expects he should be somewhere other than briefly in the cognitive realm and then in the beyond. We already know there are different rules for former vessels with this as Kelsier tells Vin that she doesn't 'need' to go to the beyond like others do.

[+Invocation]

6 minutes ago, Arteth Chris said:

What I'm saying is that it opens the possibility of there being a sort of afterlife of sorts for some, apart from 'the beyond'. We know there are several groups that exist after death (the fused, heralds, shades, the returned) There's something about the Oathpact that makes heralds not go to 'the beyond' when they die. What if there were other versions of this elsewhere, that can bypass the beyond? Also Ati was not a 'normal' person, he was a vessel, perhaps he expects he should be somewhere other than briefly in the cognitive realm and then in the beyond. We already know there are different rules for former vessels with this as Kelsier tells Vin that she doesn't 'need' to go to the beyond like others do.

There are other things that affect how long it takes to go to the Beyond, and they're cosmere-wide: the amount of Investiture you have. If you get enough, you can just...not go to the Beyond, as you note (we can see this in SH, and with the Heralds, only the Heralds are bound to go directly to Braize due to their oaths, while normally you just muck about in the Cognitive Realm). 

As to where Vax is, I'd be willing to bet it's either a Cognitive Realm hideout or a base on an otherwise uninhabited and life-unsupporting planet/moon somewhere far out of the way.

[RShara]

3 hours ago, Karger said:

We know that this time was quite short.

...That doesn't change my point?

[Calderis]

2 hours ago, Invocation said:

only the Heralds are bound to go directly to Braize due to their oaths, while normally you just muck about in the Cognitive Realm

And the Heralds are still in the Cognitive Realm... Just in a different location. 

[+Invocation]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

And the Heralds are still in the Cognitive Realm... Just in a different location. 

I thought they got manifested on the Physical side? Very possible I'm wrong.

[Inky]

They're probably in Braize's CR when a Desolation isn't happening 

[+Invocation]

2 minutes ago, Inky said:

They're probably in Braize's CR when a Desolation isn't happening 

Then how do they torture them? Cognitive Shadows don't feel pain unless they're recently dead, and you'd think the Heralds would have gotten over that long ago with how many times they've died.

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Invocation said:

Then how do they torture them? Cognitive Shadows don't feel pain unless they're recently dead, and you'd think the Heralds would have gotten over that long ago with how many times they've died.

Perhaps their souls are tortured?(Yikes!)

2 hours ago, RShara said:

...That doesn't change my point?

It does not it is just something to consider.

[RShara]

55 minutes ago, Karger said:

Perhaps their souls are tortured?(Yikes!)

It does not it is just something to consider.

Right, my point was that you said "we know" as a confirmed fact, when it's speculation.

[Karger]

34 minutes ago, RShara said:

Right, my point was that you said "we know" as a confirmed fact, when it's speculation.

Edit made.  My point is that it was altogether possible for Ati to have visited Roshar either as a shard or beforehand.

[Weltall]

9 hours ago, Invocation said:

Then how do they torture them? Cognitive Shadows don't feel pain unless they're recently dead, and you'd think the Heralds would have gotten over that long ago with how many times they've died.

Consider Secret History. It's possible for a Cognitive Shadow to feel pain if it thinks it should. During the Desolations the Heralds get Physical bodies that definitely do feel pain and they tend to get injured or die horribly, so they've got no shortage of mental associations between 'body' and 'pain' and we know that their minds were increasingly broken as time went on, making it even harder for them to try and convince themselves that their Cognitive 'bodies' aren't real and those knives, hooks, hot irons and other nasty things aren't really flaying and burning them day after day after day...

Edited March 25, 2019 by Weltall

[Lightblood]

Vax is a known planet in the cosmere. Nothing is known about it besides it is a shardworld and that it looks like Scadrials subastral (or cognitive realm). Their have been some vax questions asked but as of yet Brandon has always RAFO'd them as soon as the word vax enters the question.

[Scion of the Mists]

2 hours ago, Lightblood said:

Vax is a known planet in the cosmere. Nothing is known about it besides it is a shardworld and that it looks like Scadrials subastral (or cognitive realm). Their have been some vax questions asked but as of yet Brandon has always RAFO'd them as soon as the word vax enters the question.

Where is it confirmed that Vax is definitely a planet and not some other type of location?  I thought that it was ambiguous.  

[Lightblood]

27 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Where is it confirmed that Vax is definitely a planet and not some other type of location?  I thought that it was ambiguous.  

Coppermind my young Scion

There's also a WoB but I'm too lazy to go try to find it

Quote

Coppermind

Vax is a Shardworld in the Cosmere.^[1]

First sentence when you look up vax

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Vax

[Scion of the Mists]

1 minute ago, Lightblood said:

Coppermind my young Scion

There's also a WoB but I'm too lazy to go try to find it

First sentence when you look up vax

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Vax

I'm pretty sure that is wrong (or at least unconfirmed).  I don't have a digital version of Elantris, so I can't check right now, but I'm pretty sure the Ars Arcanum only refers to the method of Initiation on Vax, and says nothing about whether or not it's a planet.  

(I fully believe it is a planet, but I don't think it's been confirmed)

[Lightblood]

10 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I'm pretty sure that is wrong (or at least unconfirmed).  I don't have a digital version of Elantris, so I can't check right now, but I'm pretty sure the Ars Arcanum only refers to the method of Initiation on Vax, and says nothing about whether or not it's a planet.  

(I fully believe it is a planet, but I don't think it's been confirmed)

Okay I'll see what I can dig up in arcanum

Edit: Okay this is what I came up with

Quote

Argent

Is Vax a planet?  It’s clearly suggested that it is.

Brandon Sanderson

What’s that?

Argent

It’s heavily suggested that it is.

Brandon Sanderson

It is heavily suggested that it is a place.

Argent

It's a place. Okay, I'll take that.

*talking to other attendees* Vax is a place.

Brandon Sanderson

No no, heavily suggested that it's a place, is what I said!

Calamity Chicago signing (Feb. 22, 2016)

Quote

Herald (paraphrased)

Is Vax present (lurking) in any of the star systems explained in Arcanum Unbounded? Personally I think there will be more star systems that would be discovered in the future and Vax might be part of them. Comment?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

RAFO for Vax. Yes, there might be more stars. The picture on the cover is the sight observed from one particular place.

Herald (paraphrased)

Silverlight?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

RAFO. Let's just say that there are more planetary systems present in the existing star chart itself that you don't know yet.

Herald (paraphrased)

Is Yolen present in the dragon constellation?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

RAFO.

Arcanum Unbounded San Francisco signing (Nov. 30, 2016)

So pretty much he won't tell us anything at all, but its heavily suggested its a place. Whatever that means

It pretty much comes down to this:

Quote

Blightsong

Can you shed some [light] on why Ruin's last words were "Vax"?

Brandon Sanderson

No, I can't, I mean I can but I'm not going to.

OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016)

CURSE YOU BRANDON

Edited March 25, 2019 by Lightblood