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Era 1 Inquisitor Strategy


Philomath

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So I’m re-reading Era 1 right now and have a question about the Inquisitors. I know there aren’t many of them, but if they can pierce copperclouds, why aren’t they out and about more looking for Smoker’s hideouts? Really, they would just have to stroll through the city at random (maybe disguised) and burn bronze. They could find a bunch of skaa mistings that way. 

I also just read the scene of the first public executions post Yeden’s crazy stunt with the army. The crew is watching with Clubs burning copper while Spook and Kel use other metals and there are 8 Inquisitors present. How did they not notice that? If I were them that would definitely be a time to be seeking. Perhaps it is because the Lord Ruler was doing such a powerful Soothing and it messed with their sensing abilities. But I feel like they really weren’t utilized all that well for the skills they had. 

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It's actually pretty straightforward in my head. If inquisitors can pierce copper clouds, you need to make any "discovery" seem to have plausible reasons outside of that ability or it doesn't remain secret. 

If it doesn't remain secret you lose a pretty massive advantage because the underground will immediately change tactics out of necessity. 

Skaa go deeper into hiding, Allomancers are taught that their abilities must be used with extreme caution, and suddenly, the Canton of Inquisition is far far less effective. 

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6 minutes ago, Calderis said:

It's actually pretty straightforward in my head. If inquisitors can pierce copper clouds, you need to make any "discovery" seem to have plausible reasons outside of that ability or it doesn't remain secret. 

If it doesn't remain secret you lose a pretty massive advantage because the underground will immediately change tactics out of necessity. 

Skaa go deeper into hiding, Allomancers are taught that their abilities must be used with extreme caution, and suddenly, the Canton of Inquisition is far far less effective. 

That is a good point. But I don’t think it would have been that hard for them to have set something up to make it seem to have been discovered by other means. It’s not like the skaa underground generally is that trusting of each other. And piercing copperclouds was thought to be impossible. So I’m not sure the general populace would put that together. 

 

42 minutes ago, Invocation said:

It would be a waste to have them scouring for the occasional skaa Coppercloud. TLR liked to use them for more grandiose purposes.

The only times we ever see Inquisitors in Book 1 were when they were hanging out in Kredik Shaw, doing mass executions, or when an obligator brought one in to hunt down Vin. Sure they were scary by reputation, but they didn’t seem to be doing a lot with all the time that passes by. 

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I am willing to bet that their are less then a hundred inquisitors in the entire empire.  Do you realy think they would spend time looking through one area of a single city when they are also needed for(among other things) policing other cities, killing uncooperative nobility, and putting down rebellions.  Also as long as they mistling underground has hiedouts the smaller fry will reproduce and make more mistlings which the inquisitors need to reproduce.

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4 minutes ago, Philomath said:

The only times we ever see Inquisitors in Book 1 were when they were hanging out in Kredik Shaw, doing mass executions, or when an obligator brought one in to hunt down Vin. Sure they were scary by reputation, but they didn’t seem to be doing a lot with all the time that passes by. 

That we saw, yes. They had an entire Enclave they could be hanging out in doing important stuff for TLR.

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Just now, Karger said:

I am willing to bet that their are less then a hundred inquisitors in the entire empire.  Do you realy think they would spend time looking through one area of a single city when they are also needed for(among other things) policing other cities, killing uncooperative nobility, and putting down rebellions.  Also as long as they mistling underground has hiedouts the smaller fry will reproduce and make more mistlings which the inquisitors need to reproduce.

There were 16 original Inquisitors, according to Ministry doctrine (as quoted by Yomen, anyway), and there were probably only about as many later on as well. Marsh killed several outside the throne room by removing their linchpin spike while they were resting (and not suspecting one of their own), and later, Vin and Elend kill three between them before she takes down 13 of them while she Ascended (except for finishing off Marsh, the only one left). Perhaps there even can only be 16 of them, and Ruin created enough to make up the tally to fill the gap left by Marsh's little murder spree.

I think it's also as simple that even a hemalurgically doubled Seeker or Mistborn would still have to concentrate pretty hard to pierce copperclouds. Vin could do it (even without realizing about her earring), but she had to focus to do so, when she already had an idea that someone was using Allomancy in a given area and flared her bronze to Seek it out. A more general "sweeping" or passive type of Seeking probably wouldn't be enough.

A lerasium Mistborn like Elend could possibly passively pierce Clubs' or Vin's coppercloud, even without a spike, and almost certainly TLR himself could.

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In addition to the things already mentioned, SI were used to police the Obligators. A skaa rebellion is fairly simple to put down. TLR is an army unto himself. He could indeed break a riot on his own, either killing every single dissenter or soothing them into zombiedom. They just aren't that important. But Obligators run his empire, keep the Nobility from overreach, hide the movements of his Atium, and build the caverns that served as his last will and testament. If those dudes act a fool they could screw up a great many things even if their plot ultimately fails. Inquisitors are the fixers. Nobles police the skaa, Obligators regulate the Nobles, Inquisitors watch the Obligators and they answer only to god.

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11 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Not all Inquisitors could pierce copperclouds either. Only those who had been Mistborn or Seekers prior to their transition into Inquisitors.

Yes, and I suspect an Allomancer flaring copper would still block out a double-Seeker of ordinary generational strength (didn't spike a lerasium MB/Seeker). But how often would a Smoker even think to flare their metal, except to extend coverage by area rather than concentrating the defense in a smaller one?

We do see Kelsier flaring copper to improve the shielding against the Lord Ruler's massive Soothing, but that's a very special case. Yet another reason to keep the double Seeking nature of some Inquisitors on the down-low.

Edited by robardin
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2 minutes ago, robardin said:

Yes, and I suspect an Allomancer flaring copper would still block out a double-Seeker of ordinary generational strength (didn't spike a lerasium MB/Seeker). But how often would a Smoker even think to flare their metal, except to extend coverage by area rather than concentrating the defense in a smaller one?

It might not even need to be flared. Copper is probably easy to become a savant in, and that might enhance the strength of a Coppercloud.

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14 hours ago, Philomath said:

So I’m re-reading Era 1 right now and have a question about the Inquisitors. I know there aren’t many of them, but if they can pierce copperclouds, why aren’t they out and about more looking for Smoker’s hideouts? Really, they would just have to stroll through the city at random (maybe disguised) and burn bronze. They could find a bunch of skaa mistings that way.

How do you disguise a Steel Inquisitor? In a densely populated city full of Skaa?

14 hours ago, Philomath said:

I also just read the scene of the first public executions post Yeden’s crazy stunt with the army. The crew is watching with Clubs burning copper while Spook and Kel use other metals and there are 8 Inquisitors present. How did they not notice that? If I were them that would definitely be a time to be seeking. Perhaps it is because the Lord Ruler was doing such a powerful Soothing and it messed with their sensing abilities. But I feel like they really weren’t utilized all that well for the skills they had. 

There were a lot of nobility present. What would any sensible Smoker or Mistborn do to escape that painful emotional allomancy? Exactly, burn copper. Finding a copper cloud is useless by itself. You have to find illegitimate copperclouds. Add to that all the Tineyes who want to see where each drop of blood lands and the emotional allomancers who want to aid their family. Good luck sorting through that.

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27 minutes ago, Invocation said:

It might not even need to be flared. Copper is probably easy to become a savant in, and that might enhance the strength of a Coppercloud.

True, I suspect Copperclouds often become savants just like Seekers do; but I would think that day-to-day that means more of an efficiency thing than a strength thing. In other words, without being aware of the need to burn at a >1 multiplier when an Inquisitor was in the area (or might be), they would just be adept at either increasing the coverage of the cloud or making it last longer on the same amount of copper as the expression of their savantism. Most of the "flaring" of copper (which has to be consciously done, not as an unconscious reaction) would happen when they know or suspect an emotional Allomancer was working on them, to couteract the flaring of brass/zinc from the other guy.

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I haven't seen anyone mention that Inquisitors need to rest frequently. Something about the arrangement of their spikes causes them to become tired very quickly. I think we get a PoV from Kar that mentions this.

Edit: Just confirmed it, it's chapter 38 just before Vin busts through the glass and mercs TLR.

Edited by SwordNimiForPresident
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  • 2 months later...
On 3/18/2019 at 10:05 PM, Philomath said:

The only times we ever see Inquisitors in Book 1 were when they were hanging out in Kredik Shaw, doing mass executions, or when an obligator brought one in to hunt down Vin. Sure they were scary by reputation, but they didn’t seem to be doing a lot with all the time that passes by. 

As SwordNimiForPresident points out, they need to rest a ton [HoA epigraphs talks about this being because their feruchemical storing of healing takes forever due to Hemalurgic decay]. Their available "on the job" time is probably quite limited.

I suspect their activity is also probably intentionally limited to keep their mystique. If people learn too much about them, they could become vulnerable. Even if the "pull their spikes out" bit wasn't discovered, once people knew that their powers are just those of a Mistborn + healing, no special "divine" abilities, they could be defeated with numbers, the right equipment, and good planning. Their physical strength isn't that exceptional - less than the average Thug's, given Hemalurgic decay - and so they can be captured/restrained, after which even healing won't save them.

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On 3/19/2019 at 6:30 PM, robardin said:

True, I suspect Copperclouds often become savants just like Seekers do; but I would think that day-to-day that means more of an efficiency thing than a strength thing.

You need control foremost. If an Inquisitor is close by, you will stop allomancing anyway and prepare to scatter and run. Incognito Seekers are a problem. And therefore you must prevent spillage. Otherwise the Steel Ministry can send a Seeker and another Misting and when the Seekers stops sensing their companion, you have located a coppercloud.

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3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

You need control foremost. If an Inquisitor is close by, you will stop allomancing anyway and prepare to scatter and run. Incognito Seekers are a problem. And therefore you must prevent spillage. Otherwise the Steel Ministry can send a Seeker and another Misting and when the Seekers stops sensing their companion, you have located a coppercloud.

Ooooh, nice. I was just going to object that skaa Coppercloud Mistings at least could be safe from the Ministry because by definition their Allomancy would be undetectable (piercing a coppercloud with extra-strong Seeking isn't going to detect the burning of copper itself, rather what was "behind" the coppercloud); but as you point out, a two-man strategy could still flush them out if they were creating too large of a cloud. So a location like Clubs' workshop could be verified as a "secret Misting safehouse" if the Ministry ever suspected it as such.

Edited by robardin
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1 hour ago, robardin said:

Ooooh, nice. I was just going to object that skaa Coppercloud Mistings at least could be safe from the Ministry because by definition their Allomancy would be undetectable (piercing a coppercloud with extra-strong Seeking isn't going to detect the burning of copper itself, rather what was "behind" the coppercloud); but as you point out, a two-man strategy could still flush them out if they were creating too large of a cloud. So a location like Clubs' workshop could be verified as a "secret Misting safehouse" if the Ministry ever suspected it as such.

Plenty of nobles might want to have a place like Club's workshop. 

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6 minutes ago, Karger said:

Plenty of nobles might want to have a place like Club's workshop. 

But they wouldn't actually operate it as a skaa carpenter's workshop in the middle of Luthadel, eh? A nobleman's Secret Allomantic Dead Zone would probably be like the one Kelsier visits when he discovers the Eleventh Metal.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/13/2019 at 7:48 AM, robardin said:

 (piercing a coppercloud with extra-strong Seeking isn't going to detect the burning of copper itself, rather what was "behind" the coppercloud);

Actually, it does; Vin can detect Clubs' copper Allomantic pulses when she's testing the Allomancer members of the crew to prove they're not kandra in Well of Ascension. (She comments that very few people have ever actually heard copper's pulse...)

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12 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Actually, it does; Vin can detect Clubs' copper Allomantic pulses when she's testing the Allomancer members of the crew to prove they're not kandra in Well of Ascension. (She comments that very few people have ever actually heard copper's pulse...)

Nice catch.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't think the Inquisitors want to fully wipe out Skaa mistings.  After all, skaa mistings are their source of replacement spikes to propagate their species or upgrade themselves.  As such I imagine they eliminate the dangerous ones or ones with particularly desirable powers to steal, but largely just keep tabs on the ones not flaunting their powers.

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