Ideas for Era 3 Technology

[Karger]

I can up with a first doomsday weapon.  Yay now these guys can destroy the plannet.  Wax mentions that increasing his weight decreases his speed as per the law of conservation of momentum.  You get something into orbit via a method that involves decreasing the thing's weight.  Then when the vectors are right you increase the thing's weight causing it to slow to below orbital velocity.  It falls with a huge amount of force like a meteor.  Did I make any mistakes(other then creating a doomsday weapon)?

[Mushroom Catalog]

14 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Oh, making the sword a Metalmind by charging/investing it instead of using the iron/steel gimmick, so that it's immune/resists enemy steel/iron allomancy. Make Metal Swords Great Again
plus then it has a charge on hand for combat (most likely Steel for speed) and is big as heck, so it could store a TON of it.

This is actually genius. I am kind of surprised Wax hasn't ever done this with one of his guns. With weight, of course. Not steel.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Mushroom Catalog

[Halyo_Alex]

1 hour ago, Mushroom Catalog said:

This is actually genius. I am kind of surprised Wax hasn't ever done this with one of his guns. With weight, of course. Not steel.

Might be that they're just the wrong metal. I doubt he'd have guns made of pure iron through and through, and be able to charge every component. A sword however, could be a single piece of a single metal. 

[Mushroom Catalog]

On 3/18/2019 at 11:54 AM, Invocation said:

On 3/18/2019 at 11:51 AM, CosmereScholar said:

Can Ettmetal replicate Feruchemical effects? I suspect it could, since Allomancy can do so, but I do not think we have seen it.

Odds are it can be done. Since ettmetal is Harmonium and Harmony is both Ruin and Preservation, with Feruchemy being the balanced system and Sazed himself having been a Feruchemist, it seems logical that they'd be able to replicate Feruchemy too.

If ettmetal can replicate feruchemy, they could make a blackhole bomb! Just get ettmetal to store its weight in an ironmind, then pull it all out at once. I don't know the exact weight of ettmetal, so I am using the density of pure iron, even though that's probably super inaccurate. With a sphere having a radius of 0.5 meters, it would have a volume of 0.52 meters cubed. This means it has a weight of about 3937 kilograms. Using the density of iron as well, we can assume that the mass of the ettmetal is 30905450 kg/m^3. The Schwarzschild radius tells us that it would need, for a radius 0.5 meters, to weigh 3400000000000000000000 times its original weight. So if it stores its weight for 3400000000000000000000 seconds, or 1.0781329e+14 years. So maybe it isn't as realistic as I thought...

[Mushroom Catalog]

8 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Might be that they're just the wrong metal. I doubt he'd have guns made of pure iron through and through, and be able to charge every component. A sword however, could be a single piece of a single metal. 

That's true. He could get one from Ranette though. I guess we'll see once the lost metal finally comes out! Whenever that is...

Oops thats a double post... Sorry.  

Edited May 8, 2019 by Mushroom Catalog

[Halyo_Alex]

2 minutes ago, Mushroom Catalog said:

That's true. He could get one from Ranette though. I guess we'll see once the lost metal finally comes out! Whenever that is...

Oops thats a double post... Sorry.  

I still doubt we'll be seeing ironmind guns anytime soon... Then again, making a layer of iron around the outside of the components that could be charged with Feruchemy COULD work... It would act like a shield for the metal inside, right? 

[Mushroom Catalog]

Just now, Halyo_Alex said:

Then again, making a layer of iron around the outside of the components that could be charged with Feruchemy COULD work... It would act like a shield for the metal inside, right? 

This is the kind of thing that makes me wish (even more) that the cosmere was real. Because then I could do these kind of things.

[Calderis]

We know for a fact ettmetal can mimic Feruchemy. It's done in BoM. It's how the larger airships are able to fly. 

Quote

Suit took it and rolled up his sleeve to strap it to his upper arm. “Is this ship operational?”
The man’s eyes lit up. “Yes, sir! The machinery is operational, sheltered as it was from the weather. Sir … it’s amazing. You can feel the energy pulsing off that metal. We did have to send men out to unclog the fans—a few of the Coinshots helped—and we have them moving now. Fed is down below, priming the weight-changing machinery with her Feruchemy, to lighten the ship. That should be the last step!”
“Then lift us off,” Suit said, walking toward where he assumed the bridge would be found.

 

[Halyo_Alex]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

We know for a fact ettmetal can mimic Feruchemy. It's done in BoM. It's how the larger airships are able to fly. 

 

Oh, that's great! Then that solves magical central heating and whatnot; giant ettmetal network through the house, charged by a Firesoul ferring. Or just a mechanism that stores heat outside, and releases it inside, where air vents circulate it.

 

...wait, does that screw with thermodynamics? Probably not but that sounds kinda screwy.

[Pathfinder]

49 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Oh, that's great! Then that solves magical central heating and whatnot; giant ettmetal network through the house, charged by a Firesoul ferring. Or just a mechanism that stores heat outside, and releases it inside, where air vents circulate it.

 

...wait, does that screw with thermodynamics? Probably not but that sounds kinda screwy.

Theoretically I don't think you would need to pull air from outside at all. Just have the mechanism store heat in the summer cooling the room, then tap the heat in winter to keep the room warm. 

[Halyo_Alex]

1 minute ago, Pathfinder said:

Theoretically I don't think you would need to pull air from outside at all. Just have the mechanism store heat in the summer cooling the room, then tap the heat in winter to keep the room warm. 

Oh, that's true. Dual purpose A/C and central heating, then!

 

What other ettmetal applications of Feruchemy are there for mechanical uses... Hm. Well, what about an ettmetal/cadmium pneumatic system? I think that could work, if the Cadmium physically stores air, and can release it. If not, then no, this wouldn't work.

[Pathfinder]

Just now, Halyo_Alex said:

Oh, that's true. Dual purpose A/C and central heating, then!

 

What other ettmetal applications of Feruchemy are there for mechanical uses... Hm. Well, what about an ettmetal/cadmium pneumatic system? I think that could work, if the Cadmium physically stores air, and can release it. If not, then no, this wouldn't work.

It looks like what is stored is "investiture". At least that is how:

Spoiler

Lift works when she eats food and metabolizes it into investiture

So that is the assumption i am operating on. Whether or not that is 100 percent accurate I have no idea. I could see cadmium mechanisms providing air for space suits, space ships, or even simple scuba gear. I don't think you would need it for a pneumatic system when you could accomplish the same with a steel push/iron pull mechanism. Hmmm, will try and think of more. 

[Halyo_Alex]

3 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

It looks like what is stored is "investiture". At least that is how:

  Hide contents

Lift works when she eats food and metabolizes it into investiture

So that is the assumption i am operating on. Whether or not that is 100 percent accurate I have no idea. I could see cadmium mechanisms providing air for space suits, space ships, or even simple scuba gear. I don't think you would need it for a pneumatic system when you could accomplish the same with a steel push/iron pull mechanism. Hmmm, will try and think of more. 

Oh, that's true! Air supply for submarines, too, I would imagine. Given that this is for era 3 tech. 

Hmm... Well, gold medallions in hospitals for healing broken bones and chronic diseases would be life-saving. 

 

What about some applications of "ethical" Hemalurgy? Like spiking someone with allomantic pewter so they can survive long enough to tap a gold medallion to heal fatal injuries.

[Pathfinder]

2 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Oh, that's true! Air supply for submarines, too, I would imagine. Given that this is for era 3 tech. 

Hmm... Well, gold medallions in hospitals for healing broken bones and chronic diseases would be life-saving. 

 

What about some applications of "ethical" Hemalurgy? Like spiking someone with allomantic pewter so they can survive long enough to tap a gold medallion to heal fatal injuries.

I am of the personal opinion that there is no way for there to be "ethical" hemalurgy, based on WoB. Others feel differently and have very valid reasons to belief as such. As to spiking with allomantic pewter, to me if medallions are a thing and you want them to last before a gold medallion can arrive, why not have a pewter medallion? it would accomplish the same thing as a spike and be less invasive. 

[Halyo_Alex]

28 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

I am of the personal opinion that there is no way for there to be "ethical" hemalurgy, based on WoB. Others feel differently and have very valid reasons to belief as such. As to spiking with allomantic pewter, to me if medallions are a thing and you want them to last before a gold medallion can arrive, why not have a pewter medallion? it would accomplish the same thing as a spike and be less invasive. 

Well, my reasoning for the spike vs the medallion is that pewter allomancy is instinctive to the point where it can be burned unconsciously.

I don't think an unconscious, critical condition patient can tap a Nicrosilmind filled with allomantic pewter to then burn pewter unconsciously. I could be wrong, though.

 

As for "ethical" Hemalurgy, it's been stated that Gold Feruchemy can heal the spiritweb. So if you give someone a gold Feruchemy/allomancy medallion, and have them compound gold while you spike them, would that help them survive and heal the spiked bit of web?

[Pathfinder]

45 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Well, my reasoning for the spike vs the medallion is that pewter allomancy is instinctive to the point where it can be burned unconsciously.

I don't think an unconscious, critical condition patient can tap a Nicrosilmind filled with allomantic pewter to then burn pewter unconsciously. I could be wrong, though.

 

As for "ethical" Hemalurgy, it's been stated that Gold Feruchemy can heal the spiritweb. So if you give someone a gold Feruchemy/allomancy medallion, and have them compound gold while you spike them, would that help them survive and heal the spiked bit of web?

So slamming a spike through someone's chest who is in critical condition and then rushing to jam pewter in their mouth and make them swallow is better? lol. 

edit: also to add, once you realize something is a metalmind you can instinctively tap it (Marasi was a misting. never had a feruchemical ability in her life, yet knew how to tap and store in a medallion). This is an assumption, but if everyone knows what medallions are, then potentially even unconscious, a unkeyed metal mind would be treated as a metal mind and tapped.   

As per WoB spiking is horribly traumatic, and can have lasting effects, regardless if it is healed. 

edit 2: to save me the trouble of having to find this again later I am just going to post the whole host of them in a spoiler below

 

 

Spoiler

 

Tehdren

For instance, a person's spiritual component knows how old they are.

Wow. Has this been talked about before? This kind of seems like a big tidbit. Now we have some idea of how Hoid changes his age?

Brandon Sanderson

I haven't said if this is a method Hoid uses or not, but it's part of the reason the Lord Ruler turned to dust when he lost his metalminds. (His body tried to match the age his spirit said he was.)

Phantine

If they somehow killed the Lord Ruler in a conventional manner, would he still have turned to dust?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. The metalminds would have stopped being tapped, and the spirit of the matter would probably still have had this strange effect. Not it didn't happen to the bodies of the shard vessels who died.

Phantine

Would koloss spikes turn off when they die too, so dead ones shrivel up like raisins?

Brandon Sanderson

Hemalurgy changes the spirit. So not necessarily.

 

 

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

So I could be wrong, but a Hemalurgic spike, when you use it and become a savant it does damage to your Spiritweb, right?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes Hemalurgy always hurts you.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

So say you go to Roshar and you give somebody a Hemalurgic spike for some Allomantic power, don't care what, and you use it to become a savant. Does that qualify them as 'broken' enough to become a Radiant? As long as they are also following the Ideals to attract a spren.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

So becoming a Radiant is a spectrum of terminologies. It... probably, but you would have to find a Radiant who would, or a spren who would be willing to touch that, okay? It's going to drive them back.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

So would it also affect your probability of becoming an Elantrian?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yeah it would affect your ability to become anything else, yes.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

Okay, so would it be a positive effect, negative effect...? Because I was like, it gives you cracks in your Spiritweb.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It does give you cracks in your Spiritweb.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

So it's easier for Investiture to get in. Does it make it easier for other Investitures to get in?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It would make it... yes. It's going to drive spren away. So what it's really going to make easier for, there, is spren and Investiture that doesn't care.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

Okay, so Investiture doesn't care but spren do.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Investiture might care depending on if it's part of a Shard-- if it has intent and things like this.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

So it might let Stormlight in easier than a Breath, type thing.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

I'm saying it might let Odium in easier than Syl. Because Syl would care, and Odium would not care.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

Okay cool.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Alright, so it could be a really bad thing, is what I'm trying to say to you.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

Yeah that's cool. I just want to know more about gold too. Gold Allomancy too. Because Miles was doing some funky stuff.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Miles was doing some funky stuff.

 

 

Miss_Silver

Is there a maximum number of spikes a person can have? Would having more spikes eventually cause issues, be it mental or physical limitations?

Also do the benefits from spikes have some form of diminishing returns, or could some one have like, 200 bronze spikes and be able to sense a person burning metal through copper from 50 miles away?

Brandon Sanderson

1) Yes, it would cause big issues.

2) #1 interferes greatly with what you would like to do here, but there are other ways of magnifying the powers to the extent you postulate.

 

 

Steeldancer [PENDING REVIEW]

Given a situation where they have perfect knowledge of Hemalurgy--everything is known. Is it possible they could use a Shard-scalpel and spike to carefully...

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

To excise without killing somebody? The real damage is to the soul...

Steeldancer [PENDING REVIEW]

I'm imagining taking out toxic sort of things.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

You've seen Vasher do something similar, so it's not off books that that's possible.

 

 

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

I got my ears pierced recently and it got me thinking about Vin's earring. It's a Hemalurgic spike, right?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Mmhmm.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

And the Inquisitors don't have to worry about infection or anything with their eye spikes. So when Vin got her ear pierced as a baby, she also didn't have to worry about infection?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Probably.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

That is an awesome gig!

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

...It comes with some terrible side effects, but it is a pretty nice gig.

 

 

Questioner

Are Hemalurgic spikes fabrials? Is a body that has been spiked a fabrial? Are koloss and kandra also something similar?

Brandon Sanderson

No, actually.

Fabrial means specifically a bit of Investiture that has been trapped by a gemstone and then modified to do something else. Hemalurgy is its own thing--though there is a slight similarity. In most Hemalurgy, Investiture keyed to the Identity of someone (a bit of a soul) is ripped off, and then magically grafted onto someone else's soul. Not the same, though I can see the confusion.

Koloss and kandra are similar, though in this case, the soul is mostly just being distorted by using an Invested spike. In the cosmere, the body will attempt to match the soul, and so a twisted soul (Spiritual aspect of a person) can have profound effects on both mind and body.

 

 

Questioner (on behalf of Yata)

When someone is spiked, and dies, does that affect the time they spend in the Cognitive?

Brandon Sanderson

If they are spiked, yes because if you are extra Invested, which spiking technically does, if you have a spike stapling a bit of someone else's soul to yours--

Questioner

The other way. Someone spikes through you and you die--

Brandon Sanderson

Ohhhhh, oh okay, no, that might make you go faster.

Questioner

Is that why Harmony doesn’t know who's spiking people? Or--

Brandon Sanderson

Hmm. Yeah. Okay. I had not considered that. But yeah, sure. *laughter* Suuureee. You added to the canon. I mean, the actual answer was, when you're spiking somebody, you're ripping of the soul, so kind of, there's not enough left to talk. I mean, you're ripping off enough of the soul, so it's a bad thing. It's a very bad thing. So you go "Who killed you?" and it's just somebody who is essentially-- But yes, they would go faster too

 

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Pathfinder

[+Oltux72]

On 5/8/2019 at 3:29 PM, Karger said:

I can up with a first doomsday weapon.  Yay now these guys can destroy the plannet.  Wax mentions that increasing his weight decreases his speed as per the law of conservation of momentum.  You get something into orbit via a method that involves decreasing the thing's weight.  Then when the vectors are right you increase the thing's weight causing it to slow to below orbital velocity.  It falls with a huge amount of force like a meteor.  Did I make any mistakes(other then creating a doomsday weapon)?

Congratulations for killing General Relativity. You increased your weight also relative to your local star, the center of the galaxy and so on.

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Congratulations for killing General Relativity. You increased your weight also relative to your local star, the center of the galaxy and so on.

Sooo?

[+Oltux72]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Sooo?

By that logic you would also be drawn towards the sun and the center of the galaxy.
And of course somebody sharing your orbit would see you as being at rest.

[Calderis]

4 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

By that logic you would also be drawn towards the sun and the center of the galaxy.
And of course somebody sharing your orbit would see you as being at rest.

Or you'd still be close enough to the planets gravitational well to not have any of those be an issue? 

He said an object in orbit, that you increase mass enough to reduce momentum and decay that orbit. That doesn't require anything in the scale you're proposing. 

[+Oltux72]

You are moving around the sun at 30 km/s

The orbital speed around the Earth is about 8 km/s

The speed in the orbit around the core of the galaxy is 230 km/s

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

You are moving around the sun at 30 km/s

The orbital speed around the Earth is about 8 km/s

The speed in the orbit around the core of the galaxy is 230 km/s

There is a shift in the order of magnitude each time and anyway.  We have seen with speed bubbles that when large enough masses are present and close you don't have to worry about that stuff.  Otherwise Wax increasing his weight to much should cause him to fall over in the reverse of the direction he is already traveling in a circle around the earth.

[+Oltux72]

On 5/10/2019 at 1:00 AM, Karger said:

There is a shift in the order of magnitude each time and anyway.  We have seen with speed bubbles that when large enough masses are present and close you don't have to worry about that stuff.  Otherwise Wax increasing his weight to much should cause him to fall over in the reverse of the direction he is already traveling in a circle around the earth.

Yes, but there is a much easier explanation: It matters only with respect to acceleration and gravity.

[Karger]

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Yes, but there is a much easier explanation: It matters only with respect to acceleration and gravity.

I do not understand

[+Oltux72]

3 hours ago, Karger said:

I do not understand

Meaning that changing your mass has no effect unless you accelerate or slow down.