Ideas for Era 3 Technology

[+Invocation]

2 minutes ago, CosmereScholar said:

Can Ettmetal replicate Feruchemical effects? I suspect it could, since Allomancy can do so, but I do not think we have seen it.

Odds are it can be done. Since ettmetal is Harmonium and Harmony is both Ruin and Preservation, with Feruchemy being the balanced system and Sazed himself having been a Feruchemist, it seems logical that they'd be able to replicate Feruchemy too.

[CosmereScholar]

Indeed. But, this situation is a little different. In compounding, we replicate the tapping effect. We have not seen an increase in the storage effect, and I do not think it would be possible, and this could be necessary for a Brass-cooler.

I hope it is possible though. It would open incredible new technologies.

[Calderis]

2 hours ago, CosmereScholar said:

Indeed. But, this situation is a little different. In compounding, we replicate the tapping effect. We have not seen an increase in the storage effect, and I do not think it would be possible, and this could be necessary for a Brass-cooler.

I hope it is possible though. It would open incredible new technologies.

I don't see why it wouldn't be. The strength of compounding is in the fact that while burning you get an excessive amount of a trait, and you can then store that before its used. 

You aren't limited to only spending. 

[CosmereScholar]

Regardless of whether this can be done: any ideas for allomantic technology.

[SwordNimiForPresident]

If Feruchemy is in play there are a lot of potential applications. AOE healing/food/heating/cooling/weight/breath... the list goes on. That being said I'm not sure how Ettmetal would interact with Feruchemy. If it just grants the stored aspect in a general area it would make an ideal life support system. You could deploy it on the surface of any terrestrial planet and have a bubble that normal people could live in regardless of atmosphere or gravity. You could probably even deploy it under water for similar effects. This would make medallions a bit redundant though, so I'm guessing that it doesn't work that way.

[Calderis]

Well, we know it can be used to store actually, it's used on the main ship at the ends of BoM to lighten it when the Set takes off. 

Quote

The man’s eyes lit up. “Yes, sir! The machinery is operational, sheltered as it was from the weather. Sir … it’s amazing. You can feel the energy pulsing off that metal. We did have to send men out to unclog the fans—a few of the Coinshots helped—and we have them moving now. Fed is down below, priming the weight-changing machinery with her Feruchemy, to lighten the ship. That should be the last step!”

So considering all of the things that Feruchemy can do, there would be a decent chunk of applications just in straight Feruchemy.

[CosmereScholar]

You're right! What Feruchemical Machinery ideas do you all have?

These are what I could come up with:

Feruchemical Iron-

Light Materials- Just as mentioned above, aircraft and other vehicles can be lightened, while maintaining their integrity. This actually has huge implications, given how much of modern materials science is creating less massive materials which are still strong. Also, depending on the potential range of such Feruchemical machinery, one could lighten loads before moving them.

Perpetual Motion -Changing mass will violate conservation of energy, even with conservation of momentum, as one can gain potential energy when the object is less massive by bringing it to a higher elevation, then dropping it. One could use this to create a generator, which would almost certainly create a net energy gain in the universe. Please, don't start protesting this breaks the laws of thermodynamics. Conservation of energy occurs in nature only because all the forces in our universe, that we have discovered, are conservative, (that is, they are the gradient of some scalar field which is the potential energy). A new interaction which changes mass, or creates a nonconservative force, could easily cause an energy gain even while conserving momentum. (Note that changing mass by itself creates/destroys energy by mass energy-equivalence, but this is another story).

A simplistic model (proof of concept, not a good design): A magnetic weight with an Ettmetal device increases its mass and is dropped down a tube with a coil around it. Some of its kinetic energy is converted to electrical in the fall, in the normal fashion of a generator. Just before it reaches the bottom, it decreases its mass and hits a spring, which launches it back to the top. Each cycle will increase the amount of energy in the universe (provided a design is efficient enough to produce more energy than the expended Ettmetal's investiture, which is not impossible).

Even if you say such machines are impossible, Wax could just do this himself, which would be amusing.

Feruchemical Steel-If this is not a temporal effect, it does not obey the laws of physics, so I have no idea what on Scadrial this could do. Superfast vehicles/machines? Perhaps some feature of this prohibits certain physical interactions from happening arbitrarily, to prevent the Steelrunner from destroying everything as he/she runs over. So...perhaps it could be used to create an inertial dampener, creating incredibly safe cars and smooth rides in space ships.

Feruchemical Brass-

Refrigeration/Heating-As discussed previously, these could store and release heat, which is actually very important in engineering. Note: depending on how much Ettmetal this would take, this could theoretically overcome the principles of thermodynamics, creating a heat pump better than the ideal efficiency in our universe. Indeed, one might be able to reduce entropy if it were possible to convert the investiture in the metal mind into some other form. Interesting from a theoretical point of view. And no, there is no reason investiture should not be able to violate thermodynamics. From what we have seen, investiture does not appear to have entropy, unless it turns into mater or conventional energy (though it can be "corrupted" but this is clearly not something that happens in every interaction), so usual entropy principles would not need to hold in the Cosmere.

[Calderis]

Cosmere thermodynamics makes my brain hurt. 

The Cosmere is supposed to adhere to thermodynamics... But the Spiritual isn't time dependent... 

Then there's a secret "4th law" 

Quote

yurisses

You once said that Investiture follows its own version of the laws of thermodynamics. The first one is that Investiture is neither created nor destroyed.

Is the second law of Investodynamics that the amount of corrupted Investiture in the Cosmere cannot decrease?

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, the idea is that there is a third item in the equations--matter, energy, and investiture. That's the basis of how they work.

Entropy is not corrupted Investiture. The second law stands as is. However, there is a fourth law that relates to Adonalsium, which I'm not going to talk about at the moment.

/r/books AMA 2015 (July 14, 2015)

But he fully admits that much of Feruchemy breaks thermodynamics... 

I give up. 

[Karger]

On 3/18/2019 at 10:46 PM, Calderis said:

But he fully admits that much of Feruchemy breaks thermodynamics... 

What? I thought it kept thermodynamics.

I found a way to get into space fairly easily.  Get some mechanical coinshot devices and have them push on each other in two directions one up and one down.  At the bottem have a large piece of metal and at the top have your ship which will gain height.  If it is placed correctly the can get above the atmosphere and push against the planet's rotation.  Then all of the coinshot devices begin pushing harder giving a constant acceleration upward and forward.  Once orbital velocity has been achieved switch to pulling and ta da space travel achieved.

[+Oltux72]

19 hours ago, Karger said:

What? I thought it kept thermodynamics.

As soon as you can manipulate mass, thermodynamics goes out of the window. Put yourself on a spring. Make yourself lighter and heavier again, Perpetual motion.
The same can be done with mass manipulation and pushing/pulling. Use a Lurcher with mass manipulation. While you pull on the coin below you, you make yourself heavy. While it is above you, make yourself lighter. Both you and the coin will rise.

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

As soon as you can manipulate mass, thermodynamics goes out of the window. Put yourself on a spring. Make yourself lighter and heavier again, Perpetual motion.

Changing mass is not 100% efficient.  Also we know from Kriss that conservation of momentum still applies when doing it.

[+Oltux72]

7 hours ago, Karger said:

Changing mass is not 100% efficient.

The problem is the way iron works in feruchemy. You store weight. Which means that if you take the metal minds off, you get your old weight back. They need not be 100% efficient. As soon as you can alter mass, you can create energy out of nothing.

7 hours ago, Karger said:

  Also we know from Kriss that conservation of momentum still applies when doing it.

That is the next problem. This will need study There is no sensible way you can get to work while you are not under acceleration. If you are just standing around what momentum do you have? None, as you are just standing around?  But the planet you are standing on is revolving. Do you feel coriolis force?

[Karger]

29 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

That is the next problem. This will need study There is no sensible way you can get to work while you are not under acceleration. If you are just standing around what momentum do you have? None, as you are just standing around?  But the planet you are standing on is revolving. Do you feel coriolis force?

Externally large masses do that kind of thing.  Speed bubbles keep going on trains for example.  Perhaps the work is done by the planet itself in the store mass case?

[coppercloud]

Coppermind/unkeyed metalmind computers , a unkeyed metalmind is already like human USB . i would call em Keeputers. as long as you can copy memory or just the investiture   Now add in internet and you could share a memory or thought  instantly ,from there it scales .  

[Philomath]

This might lean more towards Era 4 and may not even need to happen what with the way medallions and ettmetal work, but if they gained enough knowledge of genetics they could possibly start figuring out which genes produce allomancers or feruchemists. And then maybe try to “undilute” the strength of allomancers that society is starting to face through genetic modification. 

[DarthHoid]

I know it's not necessarily a tech, but what about getting blood transfusions? What would the effects on that be in terms of power transfer?

[Calyx]

I think computer technology based on identity-unlocked metalminds is going to be super interesting. The mind (and therefore presumably metalminds) is way better at storing/accessing information than even modern computers. Not sure how processing would work, but storage should be very advanced quite early.

[John Flamesinger]

On 4/22/2019 at 8:16 PM, coppercloud said:

Coppermind/unkeyed metalmind computers , a unkeyed metalmind is already like human USB . i would call em Keeputers. as long as you can copy memory or just the investiture   Now add in internet and you could share a memory or thought  instantly ,from there it scales .  

It's not e-mail... It's Inves-Mail! Seriously though, how would that work? Mabey A whole bunch of "Keeputers" in a line that stretches over the entire planet? I don't know. Can we have an expert come and try to validate this?

[coppercloud]

On 4/25/2019 at 6:41 PM, John Flamesinger said:

It's not e-mail... It's Inves-Mail! Seriously though, how would that work? Mabey A whole bunch of "Keeputers" in a line that stretches over the entire planet? I don't know. Can we have an expert come and try to validate this?

So I cant figure out how you would copy investiture , but it probably can be done or at least with memory . The coin wax gets the vision from ,im pretty sure is not the only one and there's a way to make a master metal mind  . if there is is a way to copy from or allow many people to access the same unkeyed metalmind at the same time ... unkeyed metalminds could act as servers  and relays . so network of feruchemical metal wires . SA:OB

Spoiler

on the ship in shadsmar , i think  Shallan remarks how the ships crew seem to communicate through the ships copper linings

 

[John Flamesinger]

Huh. I doubt that the spren in OB are feruchumests, but I'm sure it's the same concept.

[Karger]

Why not make one huge interconnected unkeyed metalmind via copper wires?  Provided the copper is pure enough, it is all one piece, and there is enough of it you can store any amount of memory on the one item and anyone in the city could access it.

 

I give you the coppernet.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Karger

[+Artemos]

2 hours ago, Karger said:

Why not make one huge interconnected unkeyed metalmind via copper wires?  Provided the copper is pure enough, it is all one piece, and there is enough of it you can store any amount of memory on the one item and anyone in the city could access it.

 

I give you the coppernet.

Oathbringer spoilers:

Spoiler

The lightspren on Ico's ship did something very similar to this to communicate. I would really like to see what you're describing in the future.

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Artemos

[Mushroom Catalog]

Using unkeyed metalminds, you could both solve world hunger AND obesity. You have a big bendalloy metalmind so that when people want to eat, they can fill the metalmind while eating, and people who are starving can pull out nutrition. Bendalloy is expensive, but still. 

6 hours ago, Karger said:

Why not make one huge interconnected unkeyed metalmind via copper wires?  Provided the copper is pure enough, it is all one piece, and there is enough of it you can store any amount of memory on the one item and anyone in the city could access it.

 

I give you the coppernet.

This would be great, but don't copperminds work weirdly? Sazed has a few scenes with them, where he has to pull all the memories out, select a few, then put the rest back. On the other hand, maybe you could use this. Get tons of people to fill an unkeyed metalmind while watching flashing lights or something and then get somebody to access it. Boom- info overload and they pass out or something. 

As for allomancy- A sword that extends when you push a button. It doesn't need a spring, and can compact really small until its end get pushed out and makes it full sword sized.

[Karger]

2 hours ago, Mushroom Catalog said:

This would be great, but don't copperminds work weirdly? Sazed has a few scenes with them, where he has to pull all the memories out, select a few, then put the rest back. On the other hand, maybe you could use this. Get tons of people to fill an unkeyed metalmind while watching flashing lights or something and then get somebody to access it. Boom- info overload and they pass out or something. 

You would have to download and then re memorize everything if you wanted copies both in your mind and in the net but that is worthwhile.

[Halyo_Alex]

4 hours ago, Mushroom Catalog said:

As for allomancy- A sword that extends when you push a button. It doesn't need a spring, and can compact really small until its end get pushed out and makes it full sword sized.

sounds like a Lightsaber... but without the Light. ...and not neccesarily Saber shaped...

But you know what i mean. Extending blade from a compact, non-lethal hilt. ...I really like where this could go with Allomancy actually, cause if someone had Iron and steel (using hemalurgy obvs) they would be able to mimic some of the Force-throwing shenanigans like the lightsaber boomerang thing. What other metallic arts stuff would blend well with that sort of thing...

Oh, making the sword a Metalmind by charging/investing it instead of using the iron/steel gimmick, so that it's immune/resists enemy steel/iron allomancy. Make Metal Swords Great Again
plus then it has a charge on hand for combat (most likely Steel for speed) and is big as heck, so it could store a TON of it.