CosmereScholar

Ideas for Era 3 Technology

81 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

What ideas do you all have for Allomantic technology in the modern era? Here are some of my ideas.

 

A-Steel/Iron

Tractor Beam-As discussed in a previous thread of mine, Allomantic pushes (and likely pulls) produce some friction.

Here is the thread: Physics of the Metallic Arts

And here are relevant quotes as presented in the thread:

10 hours ago, Calderis said:

Questioner

So my quick question: Can you use Identity (I love the speed bubbles!) to anchor speed bubbles to yourself?

Brandon Sanderson

Uh, this is possible. That's less a matter of Identity. What’s gonna happen there, like, the more someone uses the powers, the more familiar and intermingled with their soul the powers become, and they are able to accomplish things that others can't. This would be like a Mistborn learning to hover a coin, right, which they can do, but most think you can't. That's the sort of level we're going with.

Necarion

So a savant could?

Brandon Sanderson

A savant could totally do that. The problem is, things moving in and out of a speed bubble, there's a transference of energy. This is how we keep speed bubbles from irradiating people when light moves through them, right, red shift. And so there's a transfer of energy directly from the Spiritual Realm, which means that moving with a speed bubble, you're gonna run into that, and it's gonna be, it's gonna cause all kinds of problems, but it would be possible.

Arcanum Unbounded San Francisco signing (Nov. 30, 2016)

 

Quote

Questioner

Do Allomantic Pushes and Pulls generate friction?

Brandon Sanderson

Do they generate friction. So... *sighs* I've had to ask myself this because if they didn't generate friction certain things that I do in the books wouldn't happen. I assume if you've seen the physics of it you've noticed. I have to go with yes. But the physics of it I'm a little wishy-washy on. I mean it's pretty obvious from the way I do things that they do.

Questioner

Yes! I have won the argument on the 17th Shard.

Brandon Sanderson

I mean, you've seen the science of it, right? You Push things up and they stay there. And so if they didn't generate friction, two people couldn't both Push on a coin to hold it in place, but it does get held in place.

Questioner

I just won a 17 page argument.

Brandon Sanderson

But I have to tell you... Peter is going to have to break his brain making the physics of that work. But I mean, it's canon. I put it in the books so it’s not like we can just ignore the fact.

Firefight Seattle Public Library signing (Jan. 7, 2015)

 

This is observed most readily when Vin and Kelsier pushed on a coin and suspended it between them in Mistborn, and when Allomancers balance on a push from a single anchor.

These principles could be used to create an Ettmetal tractor beam. It would work most readily on metal, but with sufficient power it could work on objects with only trace metal. It would both push and pull on objects strongly. By varying the relative strength of the pushes/pulls, you can manuver an object toward and away from the beam, and it could move an object in the other directions by swiveling the beam: the frictional force would hold it in the beam. This would be interesting to see in Era 4 on spaceships.

 

Hovercraft-By installing metal anchors underground on a massive scale, we could create flying cars and larger hovercraft with Ettmetal Pushing and Pulling beams. The beams would be integrated into the vehicle's carriage, enabling it to propel itself with only Ettmetal as fuel.

 

Generators- A turbine could be powered using Ettmetal, though this would depend on how scare a resource it is, by switching attrative/repulsive beams on and off at the correct frequency to maintain the spin of a metal turbine. Indeed, this could be done directly inside of a vehicle to provide a portable power source.

A-Cadmium/Bendalloy

Refrigerators-We could use Cadmium stasis fields to preserve foods, enabling fresh food to be stored at room temperature. Imagine an aluminum lined refrigerator with a cadmium Ettmetal device inside, which triggers once the door closes, so only seconds pass between openings in the door. Food and other unstable goods could also be transported in similar shipping creates.

Medical "Cryogenics"-EMTs would carry portable Cadmium field generators, and the interior of ambulances would be slowed using this effect, turning off only at the turns and times of acceleration. This would greatly aid in medical care.

Transportation-Two applications that I can see. Vehicles, like the ambulances above, could be equipped with Cadmium generators to decreadde apparent transporation time from the point of view of an observer. Or, superfast vehicles could be created with Bendalloy fields. Imagine a subway line, with Ettmetal generators running along the line whenever it is in use. A train would travel at immense speed from the point of view of an external observer. Indeed, the carriages could be lined with alluminum, so the fields don't penetrate the interior, so transport will be almost instant from the passengers point of view as well. One could create mobile vehicles with this technology, provided they sufficiently massive. One could create superfast jets, ships, trains, and submarines.

Manufacturing-Once we reach the era of mass-production, I imagine most automated conveyor belts would have Bendalloy generators running along their length full time, as they would around chemical reactors.

Energy-Generators, such as common steam turbines or something more exotic, could be accelerated in their operation by Bendalloy fields, greatly increasing their power output from the point of view of an external observer. There might be some problems taking the energy out of the field, if wires count either as being in-field or out of field. But, a transformer might be set up with one coil on either side of a bubble. However, there might be a reduction in power output because of the boundary's modification of the momentum of photons as they pass through, to eliminate red-shift. I doubt it though, as transformers do not move energy with photon. Worst case senario, a generator charges batteries, which are physically carter out of the field.

Computing-Computers would have bendalloy fields in increase their speed of computation. This effect would not be as dramatic as it seems, as computers are growing in power very quickly. But I am sure this edge would be well utilized.

 

F-Chromium-Engineers who use this power would be more likely to discover optimal designs, scientists to happen upon a crucial experiment, mathematicians on a crutial realization. This should increase technological progress immensely.

Additionally, chemists using luck might be able to create thermodynamically unfavorable reactions. I doubt this could be done large scale, too improbable. But small quanities of nanoparticles could be created by chance, which would give a significant edge to nanoengineering on Scadrial. Even a small amount of an enzyme could be used as a catalyst to create large amounts of useful substances, which would create shortcuts in developments which might otherwise have taken decades to progress.

Edited by CosmereScholar
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Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, CosmereScholar said:

Generators- A turbine could be powered using Ettmetal, though this would depend on how scare a resource it is, by switching attrative/repulsive beams on and off at the correct frequency to maintain the spin of a metal turbine. Indeed, this could be done directly inside of a vehicle to provide a portable power source.

On a similar note to this (I made a thread on this a while back with this idea in it), A-Iron and A-Steel work with liquid metals as well as solid, so a generator could be used with a high enough metal-containing liquid (or just straight up liquid metal) being pushed up and down to turn a series of turbines that are lined up vertically. You could even utilize gravity to make it more efficient and less Allomantically-dependant.

That probably doesn't make much sense without the mental picture. I can draw it out if you want.

Edited by Invocation
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Indeed, this makes sense. So you would be creating something like a water turbine, but with currents created by Allomancy in liquid metal? This would certainly work, but from a thermodynamic point of view it would likely be more efficient to push on the turbine directly.

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, CosmereScholar said:

Indeed, this makes sense. So you would be creating something like a water turbine, but with currents created by Allomancy in liquid metal? This would certainly work, but from a thermodynamic point of view it would likely be more efficient to push on the turbine directly.

I don't think that would be more efficient based on the potential for using speed bubbles to generate a lot of energy without the turbines potentially being pushed out of alignment by something getting knocked around. A narrow channel of liquid metal would allow for the flow to the standardized and no accidents to happen with something becoming misaligned somewhere in the chain. Plus a closed system could be housed underground to make room for a bunch more stuff on the surface since it wouldn't need to be serviced as often as a more direct turbine Pushing system, eliminating the need for waste on lighting when not absolutely needed (and you can just use a flashlight for when it's absolutely necessary).

It could also work in both vertical and horizontal alignments depending on the needs of the area.

Edited by Invocation
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Perhaps you are right. There are many factors in engineering which make casual analysis of designs difficult.

 

However, I doubt this would be more effective. Most of the investiture expended would be lost in drag. Also, the chemicals used in a liquid metal generator would be toxic, risking spills.

 

You are correct my design would be error prone, but it would be a lot more friendly than something like a particle accelerator which require pinpoint timing. A computer with sensors could monitor the blades and time the pulses to ensure everything is in order, like in many modern generators.

As for lighting, it could work in the dark or underground, I wouldn’t mind. : )

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Posted (edited)

18 minutes ago, CosmereScholar said:

As for lighting, it could work in the dark or underground, I wouldn’t mind. : )

You wouldn't mind, but yours would need a lot more frequent "refueling" and those poor Allomancers would mind when they have to sit with a cube in the dark. Unless you take my strategy of boosting the Pushes with an aluminum box around an already fueled cube to prevent it from expending energy until you can sync the two cubes.

18 minutes ago, CosmereScholar said:

However, I doubt this would be more effective. Most of the investiture expended would be lost in drag. Also, the chemicals used in a liquid metal generator would be toxic, risking spills.

It doesn't need to be a channel large enough for drag to take effect. It wouldn't need to be any more than a solid six inches wide. Also it doesn't need to be full-on liquid metal. Could be just a high metal content within a gel or a liquid.. Could be ball bearings in gel. Could be a lot of steel shavings, even (though that would be the worst for long-lasting turbines and probably efficiency too, as you'd need to replace the turbine blades pretty much every three days at best, stopping the entire generation during that time. Harmony help you if your mechanic is sick.). Having said that, it could be liquid metal, and I was working off of that because I like the way liquid metal looks. Provided you're not using a radioactive metal, one of the really heavy ones (read: lead), or one of the naturally toxic stuff like arsenic, you should be fine in event of a leak, as it would probably seal itself once the pressure was breached due to the temperature/pressure relationship of keeping metal liquid without having to have it be absurdly heated all the way through (and if you do have it heated, that's a way to stave off some of the inefficiency present in any generator as you send the energy lost as heat back to keep the metal liquid).

18 minutes ago, CosmereScholar said:

You are correct my design would be error prone, but it would be a lot more friendly than something like a particle accelerator which require pinpoint timing. A computer with sensors could monitor the blades and time the pulses to ensure everything is in order, like in many modern generators.

First, Scadrial has to get to the level where their computers can do that on such a pinpoint thing (and the people trust them to do so), which, judging from the progression here on Earth, probably wouldn't happen until the end of Era 3 at the earliest, and probably not even then, considering we have people still mistrusting computers to do anything correctly.

Edited by Invocation
forgot a comma
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11 minutes ago, Invocation said:

You wouldn't mind, but yours would need a lot more frequent "refueling" and those poor Allomancers would mind when they have to sit with a cube in the dark.

Hey, I’m not trying to insult you. Unless I am sorely mistaken, Ettmetal technology can be used without refueling, except maybe very rarely, as the crew in bands of morning manages to sail across the ocean using their airship, without any allomancers.

 

15 minutes ago, Invocation said:

First, Scadrial has to get to the level where their computers can do that on such a pinpoint thing (and the people trust them to do so), which, judging from the progression here on Earth, probably wouldn't happen until the end of Era 3 at the earliest, and probably not even then, considering we have people still mistrusting computers to do anything correctly.

If this is a serious issue, one can create a mechanical mechanism to make sure they are synchronized. Let’s say when the turbine is in the proper position, it lets a small electric current through, triggering the allomantic effect.

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Just now, CosmereScholar said:

Hey, I’m not trying to insult you. Unless I am sorely mistaken, Ettmetal technology can be used without refueling, except maybe very rarely, as the crew in bands of morning manages to sail across the ocean using their airship, without any allomancers.

I wasn't taking it as an insult, many apologies if it came across that way on my end.

They only need refueling when they need more ettmetal, as it is consumed the more it is used. Remember, Allik said "Wilg won't last on the stone I've got" during the flying ship thing, referring to getting him back home. I have no idea what the consuming rate is, though, or even if it's been created on the BSandy end (probably has, but probably won't come into play as much with Era 2 as it will in Era 3, so we'll probably find out then).

5 minutes ago, CosmereScholar said:

If this is a serious issue, one can create a mechanical mechanism to make sure they are synchronized. Let’s say when the turbine is in the proper position, it lets a small electric current through, triggering the allomantic effect.

That would definitely work a lot better than trying 1980-level computers controlling something that delicate (I know it wasn't that long ago, but the tech difference is valid). Probably work a lot smoother, too.

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Perhaps you are right the technology requires refueling. I hadn’t considered it, but maybe they had medallions granting allomamcy, and were periodically recharging things.

3 minutes ago, Invocation said:

Remember, Allik said "Wilg won't last on the stone I've got" during the flying ship thing, referring to getting him back home.

You are right, the Ettmetal is definitely being used up. But I can easily imagine an automated mechanism replacing Ettmetal batteries as needed. Though of course, any generator will need some maintenance.

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Just now, CosmereScholar said:

You are right, the Ettmetal is definitely being used up. But I can easily imagine an automated mechanism replacing Ettmetal batteries as needed. Though of course, any generator will need some maintenance.

An automated system to replace metal would work pretty well depending on how complex the inside of the cubes are (I honestly don't have a clue about that), and you are definitely correct that anything is going to require some maintenance on some level.

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11 minutes ago, Invocation said:

(I honestly don't have a clue about that)

Me neither : )

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I really like the Cadmium Stasis box idea. Many practical uses. 

How are the medallions charged with feruchemical abilities? Because I like the idea of researchers coming in to work, strapping on their zincmind and let the ideas cook for hours at a time. Of course it may prove unfeasible if you need an adjacent group to be brain dead idiots for days at a time.

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Posted (edited)

The medallions are granted abilities by metal born, and those that need traits, like heat, were filled by Firemothers and Firefathers.

 

So yes, someone would have to fill it. Unless you have a zinc compounder who can manipulate identity. But I am worried tapping mental speed could decrease lifespan, so there is no net benefit to using them. (In Bands of Morning, I believe it mentions tapping zinc makes you hungry, so it seems to increase the metabolism.)

 

Additional application: it would allow propulsion free orbital manuvering. Inside a time bubble, gravity appears to be normal, but from the outside bendalloy would appear to increase gravity, and cadmium to decrease it. So satellites which activate bubbles would change the shape of their orbits, and by flaring cadmium could escape a gravity well (imagine orbiting the earth at a normal pace, then suddenly have it appear to rush away from you.)

Edited by CosmereScholar
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Cadmium refrigerator, Bendalloy oven and washer/dryer.

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Hemalurgically powered transport systems, like steel rails or something.

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7 minutes ago, Inky said:

Hemalurgically powered transport systems, like steel rails or something.

How would Hemalurgy power technology? And how would you make this without sacrifices?

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You wouldn't make it without sacrifices ;)

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10 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said:

How are the medallions charged with feruchemical abilities? Because I like the idea of researchers coming in to work, strapping on their zincmind and let the ideas cook for hours at a time. Of course it may prove unfeasible if you need an adjacent group to be brain dead idiots for days at a time.

Perhaps they could store while they are preforming a menial task or while traveling to work.

I was thinking of having everyone get a prosthetic ring so you could insert or remove spikes as necessary without injuring yourself.

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2 minutes ago, Karger said:

I was thinking of having everyone get a prosthetic ring so you could insert or remove spikes as necessary without injuring yourself.

Sadly, it would still hurt. The Physical damage of the spike isn't the biggest issue with Hemalurgy, it's the Spiritual damage. Any time you insert or remove a spike, you are forcibly shoving a chunk of soul onto your own or removing a chunk of soul, respectively. Not good for your continued health.

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5 minutes ago, Invocation said:

Sadly, it would still hurt. The Physical damage of the spike isn't the biggest issue with Hemalurgy, it's the Spiritual damage. Any time you insert or remove a spike, you are forcibly shoving a chunk of soul onto your own or removing a chunk of soul, respectively. Not good for your continued health.

Perhaps over time your soul would heal in such a way to allow you to remove and add spikes normally without pain.

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Maybe... although I feel like such a use of (probably) F-Gold would be rare and expensive 

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7 minutes ago, Karger said:

Perhaps over time your soul would heal in such a way to allow you to remove and add spikes normally without pain.

Doubt it. Missing chunks of souls are issues, unless you're a gold compounder. Then, maybe. Otherwise, probably not.

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Regardless of whether Hemalurgic Technology exists/ is possible:

 

3 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Bendalloy oven and washer/dryer.

I really like this suggestion. It did not occur to me that appliances could be accelerated in their operation. A bendalloy power plant would be able to power them no problem; indeed if the whole wire power grid would count as in the field it could be linked directly to an accelerated generator, at least as directly as it is done usually, to power it.

It occurs to me these appliances, especially an oven, would generate large amounts of heat, and would need a refrigeration unit to be safe.

Indeed, air conditioning and heaters could be made far more powerful with bendalloy fields.

Any other ideas on appliances?

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11 minutes ago, CosmereScholar said:

It occurs to me these appliances, especially an oven, would generate large amounts of heat, and would need a refrigeration unit to be safe.

The heat can be taken care of with a receptor for F-Brass instead of a clunky icebox.

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Can Ettmetal replicate Feruchemical effects? I suspect it could, since Allomancy can do so, but I do not think we have seen it.

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