The Night Watcher

Will the Heralds be of any use in future books?

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Dalinar and co. have been discussing the Heralds as a possible resource in fighting the Voidbringers. I think this idea is hella cool, and it would totally add sauce to the story, but...

Taln is mad. Ash is kinda mad, or at least horribly depressed and wants nothing to do with humanity. Nale is bordering sociopathic. Ishar is...somewhere in Emul, I think? Trying to conquer it in some crazy war, which seems the mark of a madman to me, despite what Ashyn says to the contrary. Moash killed Jezrien, and it seems like he intends to do more.

I don't know where the other Heralds are, but the Desolation is back and they're choosing to remain hidden, so...

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10 minutes ago, The Night Watcher said:

Ishar is...somewhere in Emul, I think? Trying to conquer it in some crazy war, which seems the mark of a madman to me, despite what Ashyn says to the contrary.

Yeah, Nale thinks Ishar is actually sane, but he's not. They're all crazy.

As to their use, Taln and Ash both get POV books in the back half, so we'll see.

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All of the Heralds are mad. 

Quote

CCQ

I just read Edgedancer. I was just wondering... Did Ishar deceive Nalan on purpose or was he just wrong-- he had wrong information?

Brandon Sanderson

All the Heralds are insane.

CCQ

Okay.

Brandon Sanderson

It manifests in different ways. Do not trust anything any Herald says. Ever.

CCQ

Okay.

Brandon Sanderson

Nale trusts Ishar too much.

CCQ

Okay, but so did he do it on purpose, or...?

Brandon Sanderson

Um... So "on purpose" is a difficult thing when you're referring to someone with the psychology that Ishar has.

CCQ

Did he know what it was-- that it was a lie?

Brandon Sanderson

*sighs* Alright, I'll RAFO that until I get to him, but the answer is kind of a yes and a no. Okay? So there is part of him that knows and there is part of him that doesn't want to believe it. And yet the things he's been doing lately in Roshar are done because he knows what's coming.

Arcanum Unbounded Hoboken signing (Dec. 3, 2016)

At least in the short term, I don't think they're going to be remarkably helpful.

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1 hour ago, The Night Watcher said:

Dalinar and co. have been discussing the Heralds as a possible resource in fighting the Voidbringers. I think this idea is hella cool, and it would totally add sauce to the story, but...

Taln is mad. Ash is kinda mad, or at least horribly depressed and wants nothing to do with humanity. Nale is bordering sociopathic. Ishar is...somewhere in Emul, I think? Trying to conquer it in some crazy war, which seems the mark of a madman to me, despite what Ashyn says to the contrary. Moash killed Jezrien, and it seems like he intends to do more.

I don't know where the other Heralds are, but the Desolation is back and they're choosing to remain hidden, so...

All the Heralds are mad, yeah, and we shouldn't trust them very much. But, getting their stories and information from them, then mining it for useful data and taking all of it with a reasoned eye should still yield helpful information. They could be used to fill in gaps in knowledge for instance.

I'm sure someone like Jasnah would be able to sort through information and judge its accuracy fairly well.

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Posted (edited)

I don't think he'll be of any help, but I really hope Talk finds some way to be of use. Mostly because, in the words of our great overlord, Taln is best human.

Edited by HSuperLee
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12 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

I don't think he'll be of any help, but I really hope Talk finds some way to be of use. Mostly because, in the words of our great overlord, Taln is best human.

I hope Taln is of use too, which I think he will be, honestly, because of his POV book. I also just want to see Stonewards and stuff in action.

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I'd say the Heralds would be of use, depending on who was doing the talking.  Regardless of their mental states, they undoubtedly know a lot about matters, past and present.  There is still some lucidity with them, as shown with Nale and Ash seeming to be somewhat intact mentally (but not necessarily behaviorally).  It really depends on what kind of cognitive breakdown they each have and how far it has progressed.

 

This is also assuming Odium, the Unmade, and/or other elements aren't doing anything to them to interfere, either.  We have no idea what Mraize stood to gain from his talk with Ash, for example.

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Back 5 books they will be of some use. For now they know too many things that need to remain secret for dramatic purposes.

Ash and Taln are back 5 POV characters, they could die before their book but is Brandon really going to do that 3 times or more in this series?

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My personal theory is that all the surviving Heralds are going to return to Damnation at the end of book 5 and that's what is going to buy Roshar the 10-year-long breathing room between the 2 SA series. Only, this time the Fused won't hunt them to capture and to torture, but to kill them for good  in the same way that Jezrien was. And the hiatus will be over once the last of them is gone. OTOH, I also think it possible that they'd somehow figure out a loophole how to do so while leaving poor heroic Taln behind to recover and Ash to look after him.

I'd very much like female Heralds in particular to be of use, as so far they have been very much eclipsed by their male collegues, who seem to have done all the most important things in history of humanity on Roshar.

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Battar is in Kharbranth actively working with or for the Diagram.

15 minutes ago, Isilel said:

I'd very much like female Heralds in particular to be of use, as so far they have been very much eclipsed by their male collegues, who seem to have done all the most important things in history of humanity on Roshar.

What are you talking about? Vedeledev was the one who trained the surgeons in the desolations and she is probably the one who put down all the rules that Lirin follows.  I am pretty sure that Palah founded the Palanaeum (she is there right now).  Ash has had more screen time then any Herald except Nale they are all definitely doing important things.

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31 minutes ago, Isilel said:

My personal theory is that all the surviving Heralds are going to return to Damnation at the end of book 5 and that's what is going to buy Roshar the 10-year-long breathing room between the 2 SA series. Only, this time the Fused won't hunt them to capture and to torture, but to kill them for good  in the same way that Jezrien was.

As long as the Everstorm exists, the Heralds going back to Braize wouldn't help anything.  The whole point of the Oathpact was to prevent the Fused from returning after death.  But the Everstorm already gets around that restriction - we've seen Fused die during the current Desolation and be reborn during the Everstorm.  

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1 minute ago, Karger said:

Battar is in Kharbranth actively working with or for the Diagram.

What are you talking about? Vedeledev was the one who trained the surgeons in the desolations and she is probably the one who put down all the rules that Lirin follows.  I am pretty sure that Palah founded the Palanaeum (she is there right now).  Ash has had more screen time then any Herald except Nale they are all definitely doing important things.

True, but Ash is the only female Herald confirmed to have had any lines of dialogue so far.  Jezrien, Kalak, Nale and Taln have all appeared and spoken on screen in more than one scene. Ishar has spoken via spanreed and been ID'd by the Stormfather. 

I don't want to speak for @Isilel, but maybe what they are feeling is a result of the lack of focus on the female Heralds so far. I think Brandon is saving them for later and I'm cool with that. I love Herald spotting and wondering what they are up to. In the end it the focus will have evened out. 

The male Heralds do appear to have been primary drivers of the most important events we know of: Ishar founded the Oathpact and the Knights Radiant, Taln is the one who took the longest to break and the only one who didn't quit. Jezrien was the king who seems to have recruited people from his kingdom to be Heralds his daughter Ash, her bodyguard Taln, Kalak refers to Szeth carrying "my Lord's own blade" in the WoR prologue. 

Male Heralds founded the Oathpact, Knights Radiant, and maintained the Oathpact the longest. When we meet more of the female Heralds I'm sure they will have done significant things, but can't really equal the significance of these three things. 

 

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What about founding the traditions and knowledge bases that allow humanity to recover from the destinations by creating libraries and embedding collections of wisdom in the popular conscience?  Bathe regularly, wash hands before surgery, these are all influences of the Heralds.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

As long as the Everstorm exists, the Heralds going back to Braize wouldn't help anything.  The whole point of the Oathpact was to prevent the Fused from returning after death.  But the Everstorm already gets around that restriction - we've seen Fused die during the current Desolation and be reborn during the Everstorm.  

We do not know this for sure. The stormfather said it was weakened but we also have WoB that say it is not as broken as the heralds think. Jasnah believes there is a potential for it to still accomplish something. We do not know how the heralds accomplished sealing the fused away in the past to assume that just because the fused return in the everstorm means the heralds cannot seal them again. Also there is the point that Odium is trying to kill the heralds for good, so that implies they are a potential threat. Whether that is from them regaining their sanity and joining the fight, or being able to seal the fused away we do not know. So I am not saying the Everstorm can't be a loophole around the heralds, but at this time we do not know it is a loophole. We know very little about what the Everstorm exactly does.

Edited by Pathfinder
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1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

We do not know this for sure. The stormfather said it was weakened but we also have WoB that say it is not as broken as the heralds think. Jasnah believes there is a potential for it to still accomplish something. We do not know how the heralds accomplished sealing the fused away in the past to assume that just because the fused return in the everstorm means the heralds cannot seal them again. Also there is the point that Odium is trying to kill the heralds for good, so that implies they are a potential threat. Whether that is from them regaining their sanity and joining the fight, or being able to seal the fused away we do not know. So I am not saying the Everstorm can't be a loophole around the heralds, but at this time we do not know it is a loophole. We know very little about what the Everstorm exactly does.

There are certainly a lot of things we don't know about the Everstorm and the Oathpact.  However, we do know that it is currently circumventing one aspect of the Oathpact.  

We know that one aspect of the Oathpact was to prevent the Fused from reincarnating.  We know that the Everstorm now allows them to reincarnate.  Therefore, in that particular aspect, the Everstorm is a loophole.  

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Posted (edited)

21 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

There are certainly a lot of things we don't know about the Everstorm and the Oathpact.  However, we do know that it is currently circumventing one aspect of the Oathpact.  

We know that one aspect of the Oathpact was to prevent the Fused from reincarnating.  We know that the Everstorm now allows them to reincarnate.  Therefore, in that particular aspect, the Everstorm is a loophole.  

Ok, could you point to me to the page in the books, or a WoB that says in the original desolations that killing a fused was enough to lock it away before the heralds returned? Basically the implication I am getting from you is you are saying the process is this:

1. Fused return

2. Heralds return

3. fused is killed, it dies for good

4. when all fused are killed, heralds return

5 end of desolation

6. fused return (rinse repeat)

 

The fused have no problem returning, and seem fully confident they could repeatedly. I see no indicator that confirms unequivically that what you posit is true. As far as we know the process is:

1. fused return

2. heralds return

3. fused are killed but continue to return

4. function of herald when fighting back the fused ultimately seals them away

5. heralds return

 

Basically what I am saying is we do not know that during the prior desolations that the fused couldn't return after dying. As far as we know the heralds have to push them back to a point where they can accomplish something, sending them back. Basically we do not know how the oathpact functions, nor how the everstorm functions to know conclusively that the heralds going back, dying, or well anything would not accomplish anything. I also think the fact that Odium is making a point to kill the heralds for good says there is something to what Jasnah is reasoning. 

 

Edit: got a whole lot of WoB to post, and then will add my reading of those WoB. if you end up responding while I am typing this, I will refer @Scion of the Mists back to this. here we go! I tried posting this but when I pasted the WoB in, the formatting got a bit wonky. So I will write my interpretation here. The oathpact exists as long as the Heralds are alive and visa versa. The desolation ends when they return for torture. No mention of stopping the fused from returning by killing them. The herald has to return to stop it. Otherwise it continues. The oathpact is still in effect since the heralds are mostly still alive. So again, we do not know enough to say that the heralds could not stop the fused from returning by going back. it is reasonable to consider that that function could still be in place even despite the everstorm. 

 

Questioner (paraphrased)
Was Odium able to Splinter Honor because the Heralds abandoned the Oathpact?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
Good question. Um, their abandonment of the Oathpact is related... but mostly tangentially. If I was pinned down on that, I would say no.

Questioner (paraphrased)
Is there any of the Oathpact still functioning because of Taln's continued participation?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
Yes, indeed.


Questioner
With the Heralds we know that there's only one left... one Herald that's still bound to the Oathpact--

Brandon Sanderson
OK, only one Herald was about, was abandoned-- You'll find out the mechanics of that in the next book.

Questioner
So are we going to see more of Taln...

Brandon Sanderson
You will see more of-- the Oathpact is not completely broken, the others are still bound to the Oathpact.

Questioner
Even though they kind of sort of said they were abandoning it?

Brandon Sanderson
Yes, so there's still connection there, so you'll find out more about all of this and how it works.


luke.spence (paraphrased)
What caused a Desolation to end? Was it just the defeat of Odium's forces? Because the Desolations start when the Heralds break under torture.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
Because the Heralds can no longer be in existence. There is a certain period of time that they can be there, and after that, if they're there, they will start a new one. So the Heralds do need to leave for a Desolation to end

darkanimereal1 (paraphrased)
Oh. So they've got a time limit.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
They do. Otherwise the Desolation will start again. What they discovered is not all of them have to. As long as one remains, the Desolation will not start again.

luke.spence (paraphrased)
So, by the nine leaving, did that actually break the Oathpact for them? Did it change the cycle of Desolations?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
They have not completely broken the Oathpact, despite what they may think.


Questioner
So Odium is trapped on a planet near Roshar. Now that Talenelat is no longer being bound wherever he's at, does that mean that Odium's imminence is--

Brandon Sanderson
Taln still is keeping to the Oathpact.
So there is that. But [Odium's] being bound is greater than the Oathpact.

luke.spence (paraphrased)
How many parties were there to the original Oathpact?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
The Heralds and Honor. They thought that by walking away from their oaths, that it would break the Oathpact. They're going to find out that it's not quite as broken as they had previously thought (meaning the Heralds).


Questioner
Are all of the Heralds still alive?

Brandon Sanderson
The Oathpact has not been broken, so yes.


Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
Is it possible for a Returned with sufficient knowledge, to sacrifice themselves to mend the Oathpact?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
No, not without work. It just wouldn't work naturally that way. So no, I mean technically any Investiture... with that amount of Investiture, there's like, a chance they could do something like you want to do. But I'm going to say, kind of, would be no.

Edited by Pathfinder
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1 minute ago, Scion of the Mists said:

There are certainly a lot of things we don't know about the Everstorm and the Oathpact.  However, we do know that it is currently circumventing one aspect of the Oathpact.  

We know that one aspect of the Oathpact was to prevent the Fused from reincarnating.  We know that the Everstorm now allows them to reincarnate.  Therefore, in that particular aspect, the Everstorm is a loophole.  

The Everstorm has to be dealt with before the Oathpact will matter again. Fused used need to be sent back to Braize, now they aren't. 

"He will not remain bound by this. The enemy. He'll find a way around it.You know he will." Prelude to the Stormlight Archive. 

@Pathfinder

"HUMANS COULD NEVER WIN WHEN THE CREATURES THEY KILLED WERE REBORN EACH TIME THEY WERE SLAIN. AND SO, THE OATHPACT." ... "THEIR OATHPACT DELAYED THE FUSED FROM RETURNING IMMEDIATELY, BUT EACH TIME AFTER A DESOLATION THE HERALDS RETURNED TO DAMNATION TO SEAL THE ENEMY AGAIN."  OB Ch. 38 Broken People

If the Heralds lingered on Roshar too long after a desolation a new one starts:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/160/#e2893

The Oathpact was made specifically to address the problem of the Fused from coming right back after dying. The Heralds killed all the Fused who were then delayed on Braize for time, then the Heralds went to Braize to make the seal permanent. They thought that would be the end of it but the Fused tortured the Heralds into letting them out. 

2 hours ago, Karger said:

What about founding the traditions and knowledge bases that allow humanity to recover from the destinations by creating libraries and embedding collections of wisdom in the popular conscience?  Bathe regularly, wash hands before surgery, these are all influences of the Heralds.

I agree the female heralds did significant things that we'll learn more about as the series goes on. I'm saying a couple male heralds did hugely important things that it would be very hard to equal as far as historical impact. I'm not saying Male heralds are better, just that I see where @Isilel is coming from in saying in feeling that they've been given short shrift in the books, so far

The Oathpact is a big deal. It's the whole reason for the Heralds to exist in the first place. The knights radiant are a huge deal. the whole series is based around them. One male herald is the founder of both. Being the only Herald not to quit and take the longest to break is huge.  

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Posted (edited)

24 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

The Everstorm has to be dealt with before the Oathpact will matter again. Fused used need to be sent back to Braize, now they aren't. 

"He will not remain bound by this. The enemy. He'll find a way around it.You know he will." Prelude to the Stormlight Archive. 

@Pathfinder

"HUMANS COULD NEVER WIN WHEN THE CREATURES THEY KILLED WERE REBORN EACH TIME THEY WERE SLAIN. AND SO, THE OATHPACT." ... "THEIR OATHPACT DELAYED THE FUSED FROM RETURNING IMMEDIATELY, BUT EACH TIME AFTER A DESOLATION THE HERALDS RETURNED TO DAMNATION TO SEAL THE ENEMY AGAIN."  OB Ch. 38 Broken People

If the Heralds lingered on Roshar too long after a desolation a new one starts:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/160/#e2893

The Oathpact was made specifically to address the problem of the Fused from coming right back after dying. The Heralds killed all the Fused who were then delayed on Braize for time, then the Heralds went to Braize to make the seal permanent. They thought that would be the end of it but the Fused tortured the Heralds into letting them out. 

I agree the female heralds did significant things that we'll learn more about as the series goes on. I'm saying a couple male heralds did hugely important things that it would be very hard to equal as far as historical impact. I'm not saying Male heralds are better, just that I see where @Isilel is coming from in saying in feeling that they've been given short shrift in the books, so far

The Oathpact is a big deal. It's the whole reason for the Heralds to exist in the first place. The knights radiant are a huge deal. the whole series is based around them. One male herald is the founder of both. Being the only Herald not to quit and take the longest to break is huge.  

ok let me try again. The only thing we know for sure regarding the oathpact is in order for the desolation to end the heralds have to return to torture whether through death or voluntary right? So you and @Scion of the Mists are saying because the fused are returning via the everstorm, that shows the oathpact isn't working. Except the heralds are on roshar. They haven't returned yet to seal them away. If the heralds returned for torture to seal the fused away, but despite that the fused kept returning via the everstorm, then I would totally agree with you. Thing is, they haven't. They are all on Roshar right now. Taln returned remember? Taln showed up before the everstorm was a thing. So we do not have any evidence that shows conclusively that the everstorm jumped the oathpact yet. What the stormfather said is not conclusive because Jasnah says right after that the stormfather said it was weakened not destroyed. We have WoB confirming it was not destroyed. So I still do not see anything yet that conclusively proves the everstorm makes the oathpact useless. 

Edited by Pathfinder
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@Pathfinder  I think the Herald's return before the Fused.  We know Taln showed up at the end of WoK when he broke for 4k plus years of torture.  As far as we know, there weren't any Fused around until after the Everstorm.  Also, when Taln comes back he talks about preparing people, about the different skills the other Heralds would teach them to get ready for the war.  I was always under the impression that the humans got at least a little head start before the Desolation actually began.  

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10 minutes ago, Lidolas said:

@Pathfinder  I think the Herald's return before the Fused.  We know Taln showed up at the end of WoK when he broke for 4k plus years of torture.  As far as we know, there weren't any Fused around until after the Everstorm.  Also, when Taln comes back he talks about preparing people, about the different skills the other Heralds would teach them to get ready for the war.  I was always under the impression that the humans got at least a little head start before the Desolation actually began.  

That's the impression I got as well, but I don't know why. Is it like when a Herald agrees the Fused can leave it unseals Braize but the Fused still have to swim through some investiture molasses to get out? Even when all the Heralds are on Roshar fighting, when a Fused dies there is a delay in them getting back due to the Oathpact. Do they have to deal with that same delay once the seal is broken and the Heralds don't?

The Heralds were never meant to leave Braize once they sealed it so I don't think they would have been given some fast travel ability back to Roshar beyond the surges which both the Fused and Heralds can use. 

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51 minutes ago, Lidolas said:

@Pathfinder  I think the Herald's return before the Fused.  We know Taln showed up at the end of WoK when he broke for 4k plus years of torture.  As far as we know, there weren't any Fused around until after the Everstorm.  Also, when Taln comes back he talks about preparing people, about the different skills the other Heralds would teach them to get ready for the war.  I was always under the impression that the humans got at least a little head start before the Desolation actually began.  

Lol you are right, herald returns first, then the fused.

Though my point still stands regarding the end of the desolation and the oathpact. 

33 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

That's the impression I got as well, but I don't know why. Is it like when a Herald agrees the Fused can leave it unseals Braize but the Fused still have to swim through some investiture molasses to get out? Even when all the Heralds are on Roshar fighting, when a Fused dies there is a delay in them getting back due to the Oathpact. Do they have to deal with that same delay once the seal is broken and the Heralds don't?

The Heralds were never meant to leave Braize once they sealed it so I don't think they would have been given some fast travel ability back to Roshar beyond the surges which both the Fused and Heralds can use. 

Maybe when the heralds give in to the torture, they are all transported back to roshar, while the voidbringers then have to gather and make the transition? I do not know why, but I keep getting this feeling like the thread from the dragon riders of pern. 

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@Pathfinder the Oathpact's Fused sealing ability is in effect during the Desolations, when the Heralds are on Roshar.  Otherwise the Desolations would never end - the Fused would just keep coming back and it would be impossible to kill them all at the same time.  

Once the Fused were all killed and returned to Braize, the Heralds had a certain period of time before they too had to return to Braize.  

 

3 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Basically what I am saying is we do not know that during the prior desolations that the fused couldn't return after dying.

Three reasons why I think this is certain:

  1. If the Fused kept being reborn during the Desolation, there's no way it would have ever ended.  You can't defeat an enemy that keeps reviving the next day/week.  
  2. The Stormfather quote that @Child of Hodor posted: "THEIR OATHPACT DELAYED THE FUSED FROM RETURNING IMMEDIATELY, BUT EACH TIME AFTER A DESOLATION THE HERALDS RETURNED TO DAMNATION TO SEAL THE ENEMY AGAIN."  OB Ch. 38 Broken People
  3. This WoB (that you posted) explains that, following the Desolation, the Heralds had a "certain period of time" that they can be on Roshar.  Afterward, they had to return to Braize or their refusal to would trigger a new Desolation (i.e. release the Fused again).  This period of time is prior to the Heralds return, yet the Fused are clearly sealed in Braize.  
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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

The male Heralds do appear to have been primary drivers of the most important events we know of: Ishar founded the Oathpact and the Knights Radiant, Taln is the one who took the longest to break and the only one who didn't quit.

Indeed. In addition to this, Jezrien not only was their leader, but is worshipped as the only god (instead of Honor) in large parts of Roshar, while Kalak is similarly worshipped in others, for some reason. There is nothing comparable for the female Heralds.

Oh, and in one of the epigraphs in WoR, I think, it was again Ishar who was looking for the ways to preserve knowledge between the Desolations, so that  might go to his credit too. 

As to the Everstorm, something needs to be done about it either way to gain the 10-year-long respite, so I can only assume that dealing with it will be part of the climax of book 5.

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Posted (edited)

4 minutes ago, Isilel said:

Indeed. In addition to this, Jezrien not only was their leader, but is worshiped as the only god (instead of Honor) in large parts of Roshar, while Kalak is similarly worshipped in others, for some reason. There is nothing comparable for the female Heralds.

That is more likely a result of socity's prejudice then a reflection of the Herlad's importance.

Edited by Karger
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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

@Pathfinder the Oathpact's Fused sealing ability is in effect during the Desolations, when the Heralds are on Roshar.  Otherwise the Desolations would never end - the Fused would just keep coming back and it would be impossible to kill them all at the same time.  

Once the Fused were all killed and returned to Braize, the Heralds had a certain period of time before they too had to return to Braize.  

 

Three reasons why I think this is certain:

  1. If the Fused kept being reborn during the Desolation, there's no way it would have ever ended.  You can't defeat an enemy that keeps reviving the next day/week.  
  2. The Stormfather quote that @Child of Hodor posted: "THEIR OATHPACT DELAYED THE FUSED FROM RETURNING IMMEDIATELY, BUT EACH TIME AFTER A DESOLATION THE HERALDS RETURNED TO DAMNATION TO SEAL THE ENEMY AGAIN."  OB Ch. 38 Broken People
  3. This WoB (that you posted) explains that, following the Desolation, the Heralds had a "certain period of time" that they can be on Roshar.  Afterward, they had to return to Braize or their refusal to would trigger a new Desolation (i.e. release the Fused again).  This period of time is prior to the Heralds return, yet the Fused are clearly sealed in Braize.  

Don't have the time to reply as fully as I wish I could, but in the scene with jezerin and kalak at the very beginning of way of kings, it is mentioned there is still skirmishes going on. This is supported in one of Dalinar's visions when he sees the shin approach the left honorblades. Those skirmishes could be humans aligned with odium, could be non fused listeners, or could be remaining fused lingering before the heralds returned. My point is we don't know. You could be very well right but with the info we have right now, it is a theory, not a foregone conclusion. Each time you quote the stormfather, please quote jasnah shortly after stating the stormfather confirming it weakened, not destroyed, and could still work. 

 

edit: apologize if i sound curt, i am on the go. not meant to sound antagonistic or anything if it is read that way. 

Edited by Pathfinder
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