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Era 3 team

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1 minute ago, Calderis said:

You apparently did not click the link.

I did not. Thank you for the text. I guess if Brandon says it, it's true. It does mean ignoring all of the times that Kel showed compassion for others, but can't really do anything about that. To use his death scene as an example, he decides to save Elend because Vin loves him. So is he a psychopath or isn't he? There's a bunch of examples like this throughout the books. It's one thing to say he's a psychopath, but he really isn't written like one.

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Just now, SwordNimiForPresident said:

I did not. Thank you for the text. I guess if Brandon says it, it's true. It does mean ignoring all of the times that Kel showed compassion for others, but can't really do anything about that. To use his death scene as an example, he decides to save Elend because Vin loves him. So is he a psychopath or isn't he? There's a bunch of examples like this throughout the books. It's one thing to say he's a psychopath, but he really isn't written like one.

Sociopathy is not an on or off switch, it's a spectrum. True and total sociopaths are rare. But roughly 10% of the population falls somewhere on that scale. 

I feel like Kel has more capacity for empathy than I do myself. 

Anyways, sorry to derail the thread. Just... Yeah. 

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Posted (edited)

4 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Sociopathy is not an on or off switch, it's a spectrum. True and total sociopaths are rare. But roughly 10% of the population falls somewhere on that scale. 

I feel like Kel has more capacity for empathy than I do myself. 

Anyways, sorry to derail the thread. Just... Yeah. 

Sociopath and Psychopath aren't the same thing are they? Psychopaths are the "kills small animals (or people) for fun" guys and sociopaths are the "I don't feel bad about what I do or who I do it to" guys

Edited by SwordNimiForPresident
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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Sociopath and Psychopath aren't the same thing are they? Psychopaths are the "kills small animals (or people) for fun" guys and sociopaths are the "I don't feel bad about what I do or who I do it to" guys

Not all sociopaths are psychopaths, all psychopaths are sociopaths. It's just a subset. 

Edit: all things considered, I very much think Brandon meant Sociopath. Psychopath isnt even a term used anymore. It's more Hollywood than psych.

Edit 2: and apparently I'm wrong there, it is still a subset of Sociopathy though. 

Edited by Calderis
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Posted (edited)

Back to the topic at hand.

For my one twinborn, I'm going double pewter because Hulk smash (it should be a really tall gangly guy too). If compounders are not allowed then A-Pewter and F-Gold. For everything else, I'd like to see some of the Feruchemical powers that we haven't explored much yet, so F-Duralumin, F-Chromium and F-Electrum. Then if I'm finishing out a team to hunt a Mistborn, A-Bronze, A-Copper, A-Chromium and F-Steel.

Edited by SwordNimiForPresident
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On 3/13/2019 at 9:18 PM, Karger said:

Yes Kelsier is manipulative and somewhat arrogant but the fact of the matter is he choose to have mercy on the noblemen of the citadel as apposed to sending Vin after them, he did care for the skaa and his friends admit that they were better people once they had been manipulated by Kelsier. 

He spared the nobles, but it wasn’t because he cared about them. He did it for Vin, since she cared about Elend (I think I’m thinking of the same scene as you?). And as for the skaa, I don’t think he cared that much about them as individuals. I imagine he sees them as manifestations of what he suffered at the hands of the Final Empire. So instead of caring about their own stories and what they’ve gone through, Kelsier sees them more as testimonies to his personal suffering. That’s not to say there weren’t skaa/half-skaa like him that he considered friends, but in general, everything is filtered through his own ego.

It’s important to note that psychopaths aren’t social islands; they can form emotional bonds with people, and I think it’s obvious that Kelsier cared about some people, including Vin and of course Mare. But psychopaths have the ability to switch their empathy on and off at will. It is incredibly easy for them to dehumanize someone else in their mind, especially people they don’t know. We see this in how easily Kelsier kills noblemen. Yes, he has an obvious reason to hate them, and he’s not alone in his hatred, you’ve got Dockson and plenty of other skaa. But Kelsier is flippant about others lives that I don’t think other characters can rival. It’s hard to see this in Mistborn 1 because of the reasons he has for hating nobles and the apparent altruistic motivations for supporting the rebellion, but the hints are there. And this is on top of the explicit WoBs already mentioned.

Honestly, it took me a while to see Kelsier as something other than a selfless hero, but I’ve been convinced after looking at the wobs and rereading Mistborn.

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Posted (edited)

23 minutes ago, ILuvHats said:

We see this in how easily Kelsier kills noblemen.

Not just noblemen either. Any skaa in a nobles employ is fair game for guilt free murder as well. 

Edited by Calderis
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Posted (edited)

Does anyone have an example of an unjustified murder that Kelsier committed? I think I'm on reread number four now and nothing has stood out to me.

On second thought, maybe this should be it's own thread so we don't derail this one anymore. New Thread

Edited by SwordNimiForPresident
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Hm, a lot of it would depend on such yet unknown limitations as what powers would be available through medallions and whether there is any limit on how many different powers, both native and device-based, one can use at once. IIRC, in the first Mistborn trilogy the protagonists burned only 3-4 metals at a time despite being exceptional Mistborn, so maybe there are unavoidable drawbacks to trying to use more simultaneously. Also, they never actually took advantage of electrum's predictive capabilities in battle, but only burned it to disrupt atium use by their opponents, which makes me think that it takes serious skill and concentration, not to mention quick reflexes, to do so.

So, discounting all such considerations, my team would lean heavily towards Ferrings, as Feruchemy would be much more difficult/impossible to detect by the Mistborn burning bronze:

For my one Twinborn, I would choose an A-bronze/F-tin combination with a sniper rifle, aluminium bullets and metalminds full to bursting and/or implanted within the body. There is a WoB that allomantic bronze sense can be stored in tin metalminds like any other sense - which means that this Twinborn mould be able to detect the Mistborn's allomancy without giving themselves away and punch through the latter's copperclouds ditto. And, of course, also massively dial up selected other senses as needed. Frankly, this agent alone should be enough to rid Scadrial of a murderous Mistborn, unless we are speaking about  Kelsier.

But as for others, I'd probably chose F-steel for obvious reasons, F-duralumin to canvass witnesses, F-zinc for planning  and, depending on how Fortune works, one of F-chromium or a second F-steel. If I was allowed a second Twinborn, I'd go for the  A-steel/F-steel one.

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@Isilel my immediate counter to the "limit" to simultaneous powers is the Bands and "She tapped. Everything."

They typically used what was applicable in the moment. That's not a limit.

That aside, the limit on Era 3 should be 5 powers at once if the 3 power limit to medallions holds (and like I think the Bands did, that can still be circumvented via Nicrosil Feruchemy). So the typical limit for most would be a single power, two for a twin born, plus 3 from a medallion. 

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, Calderis said:

my immediate counter to the "limit" to simultaneous powers is the Bands and "She tapped. Everything."

Well, IMHO the Bands are special and they also had a lot of F-Zinc stored for massively increased and speeded-up multi-tasking. Not to mention that she couldn't have really tapped _everything_ because there were no monstrous speed/slow bubbles, nor did she burn all her metals in a single explosion of power, nor did she see any A-gold/electrum effects, etc., etc.

 

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They typically used what was applicable in the moment. That's not a limit.

I dunno - IMHO burning bronze or copper during  battles  would have been quite helpful, but IIRC Vin almost never did the former, so that she had to recognize the types of enemy mistings by other means, and only did the latter during infiltrations. Using emotional allomancy  to distract human opponents during a fight and to undermine their morale would have been useful too, but neither she nor Kelsier ever did so. Yet both of them were exceptionally skillful Mistborn, both due to allomantic affinity and because their prior lives honed their reflexes, coordination and ability to make split-second decisions. Their Mistborn opponents were far less impressive and also didn't use many powers at once - it was usually just pewter + steel or iron + sometimes atium. Even the Inquisitors weren't much better in that respect. All of this leads me to assume that there are (cognitive?) limits. Which is good because limits make things fun. It would be boring if being a Mistborn was an automatic "I win" card. 

I also very much hope that experienced mistings can do more with their one metal than a Mistborn can with that same metal. After all, a Mistborn has so many others to fall back on. Era 2 Coinshots move around like Era 1 Mistborn used to, but they don't have Iron or Pewter to bail them out and protect them from injury if they make a mistake. 

 

Quote

That aside, the limit on Era 3 should be 5 powers at once if the 3 power limit to medallions holds (and like I think the Bands did, that can still be circumvented via Nicrosil Feruchemy). So the typical limit for most would be a single power, two for a twin born, plus 3 from a medallion. 

The question is - would the Mistborn be able to juggle medallion powers along with all their native abilities? At the same time? I hope not. And also - which powers would be available via the medallions? And for how long? We have only seen those providing F-iron, F-copper, F-brass and F-duralumin tuned for translation so far in Era 2.

Which is why I didn't take medallions in consideration during my anti-Mistborn team-building - there is so much that we don't know about them yet.

Edited by Isilel
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On 3/23/2019 at 5:15 PM, Isilel said:

Well, IMHO the Bands are special and they also had a lot of F-Zinc stored for massively increased and speeded-up multi-tasking. Not to mention that she couldn't have really tapped _everything_ because there were no monstrous speed/slow bubbles, nor did she burn all her metals in a single explosion of power, nor did she see any A-gold/electrum effects, etc., etc.

Those are effects of burning metal, not tapping metalminds.

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