Era 3 team

[Arch]

I've been thinking about the Era 3 cast. Specifically the squad thats going to try and take down the mistborn killer. What team of mistings/ferryings do you guys think has the best chance of tracking and then defeating a skilled mistborn? I'm imagining a team of 8 people, as homage to kelsier's orginal crew (OreSeur does not count  ). lets limit ourselves to 1 twinborn so this doesnt get too crazy. We know one of them is a terris nicroburst girl. Any ideas for the rest? 

[+Invocation]

Probably an A-Tin, an F-Pewter, an A-Bronze, an A-Brass and/or Zinc, F- and A-Steel, and probably F-Connection as well.

[Arch]

43 minutes ago, Invocation said:

Probably an A-Tin, an F-Pewter, an A-Bronze, an A-Brass and/or Zinc, F- and A-Steel, and probably F-Connection as well.

interesting choices. I have a hard time imagining A-tin being all that useful in a modern setting. especially since F-tin would let you alternate between senses. How would connection be useful for in this scenario?

I think a Slider would be vital for a team like this.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Arch

[SwordNimiForPresident]

Mistborn killer ends up being the hero. Everyone they killed was part of the Set.

[Karger]

Why not do something more reckoner style and have them use tech to counter the mistborn's abilities and put little or no powered people on the team?

[+Invocation]

49 minutes ago, Arch said:

interesting choices. I have a hard time imagining A-tin being all that useful in a modern setting. especially since F-tin would let you alternate between senses. How would connection be useful for in this scenario?

A-tin is mostly to be used as a spy, not really on the team at all, more just a contact. F-tin would be useful, I'll admit.

It's not unreasonable to think that by this time, people would have figured out (as practice is gained via more available metal) how to anchor Connection tapping to people, which has been hinted as possible, increasing your ability to convince them. Also speeds along negotiations if they're viable, since you can artificially establish a connection that normally takes psychologists weeks to do.

[I think I am here.]

So we have the Nicroburst girl.

I feel like she could learn off of someone like a Leecher. It’s basically her power, except reversed. So I’m thinking the squad might have an experienced Leecher for her to learn off of.

Lurchers don’t get enough love, and I feel like one here would be a good additon, since a coinshot seems overdone. Plus, we can see some cool uses for Ironpulling that can’t be done with steel, like spider-maning around. I’m imagining this character to be someone who’s fed up of being told Iron is not a combative power and is out to prove themselves!

Chromium Ferring. It would be a nice insight into how exactly luck and Fortune work. Probably the comic relief. Lots of luck puns.

Non Invested. Good knowledge on how it’s like being a non-Invested in era 3, what with all the technology.

Honestly, I think those five are enough. Heck, even in Era 2 we only have MeLaan, Wax, Wayne, Steris and Marasi. But if we want to include 3 more I’d suggest they be side characters.

[Arch]

13 hours ago, Karger said:

Why not do something more reckoner style and have them use tech to counter the mistborn's abilities and put little or no powered people on the team?

there probably will be modern hazekillers. Armed with special aluminum tech and the like, but I dont see why they cant be both.

8 hours ago, I think I am here. said:

Chromium Ferring. It would be a nice insight into how exactly luck and Fortune work. Probably the comic relief. Lots of luck puns.

Honestly, I think those five are enough. Heck, even in Era 2 we only have MeLaan, Wax, Wayne, Steris and Marasi. But if we want to include 3 more I’d suggest they be side characters.

The chromium ferring is  blacklisted and from every gambling den in Elendel. Luck probably doesnt work that way, but the running joke can be that the average scadrian understands fortune about as much we do or less so.

5 might be enough. I just think back to Vin dropping mistings like it was nothing so i imagine they'll need quite a bit of help. it all depends on the counter measures they'll have developed against allomancers, but i cant imagine theres going to be a time where theres a straight forward way of dealing with a mistborn. didnt brandon also say that allomancy would get stronger in the future?

[+Invocation]

34 minutes ago, Arch said:

I just think back to Vin dropping mistings like it was nothing

Vin is a little bit of an exception to the normal rules of Mistborn strength and fighting capabilities. Plus, the devolving power strength might have smacked Era 3 around a little bit and the Mistborn killer won't be as strong as the Mistborn we're used to.

I don't know if BSandy said it would get stronger, though I will go check.

Edit: found a WOB connected to that!

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

In Mistborn, as the Eras are going on, the powers get diluted because of people passing down the bloodlines. Once we reach the Third and Fourth Era, the powers are going to be--won't they be a lot weaker, and not very useful?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

They will become weaker, but there's a maximum level of dilution... There's a maximum level that you can reach pretty quickly, if you're only counting the northern continent. Because of the limited number of progenitors.

So, Era 3 we're not going to have a problem. And they're also trying to figure out ways around this.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

So it looks like it'll plateau out at some point and something *cough cough* Hemalurgy *cough cough* will be used to bypass the limitation.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Invocation

[+Child of Hodor]

16 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Mistborn killer ends up being the hero. Everyone they killed was part of the Set.

End up being Kelsier who will have a reason for doing it, whether they are the Set or people/creatures behind the Set or something new. 

[SwordNimiForPresident]

54 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

End up being Kelsier who will have a reason for doing it, whether they are the Set or people/creatures behind the Set or something new. 

Could be. Personally I think Kelsier is off world right now kicking names and taking chull. I imagine him countering threats before they can reach Scadrial, while gathering intel for Harmony about other beings like himself.

[Inky]

Kelsier can't leave Scadrial. Yet.

[SwordNimiForPresident]

14 minutes ago, Inky said:

Kelsier can't leave Scadrial. Yet.

Was there a WoB on that or something? I know he couldn't leave while he was a cognitive shadow, but what's holding him back now?

[Inky]

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Has Kelsier done any worldhopping?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Kelsier is bound to Scadrial the same way that a spren is bound to Roshar, because of the level of Investiture and the type and the way it happened. It is possible to get offworld but he does not know what it is.

 

[SwordNimiForPresident]

@Inky Weird. Well if he's not off world then I'd love to know what his excuse is for letting things go sideways with the Set. They're basically trying to build a kind of institutional slavery based on debt (which is way to real).

"I literally died to save these people from slavery. Oh look they're getting enslaved again." *shrugs*

-Kesier, Era 2 probably.

[Inky]

I'm not 100% sure Kelsier really cares about Elendel

[Calderis]

First, as I've said before, good intentions or bad, "serial killer" is well below the level of scheme I'd expect from Kel, and with hundreds of years of experience and access to all the powers of a Fullborn, I don't give any group of misting a chance against him.

Second, I'm still not convinced that What Kelsier sees as the good fo Scadrial will be either 1) in any way altruistic or 2) align with what the readers think is good. 

Kelsier is an amazing character.

Kelsier is not a good person. 

Kelsier is far more similar to Miles than Wax, and I see the possibility of him being a future villain as far more likely than a hero. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Calderis

[Karger]

3 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Kelsier is not a good person. 

That is not entirely true.  I am fully aware of Kelsier's flaws but he does seem to care about others and he does give up power for the greater good.  I feel that excluding him from the good guys club is a tad unfair.

[Calderis]

1 minute ago, Karger said:

That is not entirely true.  I am fully aware of Kelsier's flaws but he does seem to care about others and he does give up power for the greater good.  I feel that excluding him from the good guys club is a tad unfair.

He was a good guy in Era 1. Context is important. He was still remarkably self serving. Place him in a different setting and he'd already have been a villain. 

Which is the entire point. The world has changed. 

[SwordNimiForPresident]

2 hours ago, Inky said:

I'm not 100% sure Kelsier really cares about Elendel

 

5 minutes ago, Calderis said:

First, as I've said before, good intentions or bad, "serial killer" is well below the level of scheme I'd expect from Kel, and with hundreds of years of experience and access to all the powers of a Fullborn, I don't give any group of misting a chance against him.

Second, I'm still not convinced that What Kelsier sees as the good fo Scadrial will be either 1) in any way altruistic or 2) align with what the readers think is good. 

Kelsier is an amazing character.

Kelsier is not a good person. 

Kelsier is far more similar to Miles than Wax, and I see the possibility of him being a future villain as far more likely than a hero. 

Out of curiosity, what gives you both such negative impressions for Kelsier? Certainly he has murdered a lot of people, but is it really murder to kill your enemy in a war? Listing his known goals throughout the books. Save the oppressed from their semi evil quasi god. Save his people from their actually evil actual god (which also involved willingly giving away the power of a god). Saving a foreign group of people from the sudden ice age caused by the end of the world even though he owes them nothing. I'm not seeing the uncaring bad guy that you guys see.

I also just realized how off topic I am, so I apologize.

[Karger]

True to an extent but the only thing we have seen him do recently is help out a struggling civilization which I would not call immoral.  You could say it earns him the secret handshake.

[Calderis]

@SwordNimiForPresident Kelsier is a Sociopath. Brandon uses the word Psychopath. He's manipulative of everyone around him, and amazingly self serving. His revolution and religion with the Skaa was driven with helping them as a secondary goal to his revenge. I fully believe that if he had an option that he thought was better he'd have taken it.

He manipulated Sazed and Spook. 

"give the boy powers. He deserves it." 

"hey Spook, you're a Mistborn already. You're halfway to immortality already. Help me with this spike research."

Everything Kel did helped himself first, and everyone else second. 

As to the idea that he would be a villain in other circumstances... Again that's from Brandon. 

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

I think Kelsier is one of the best-crafted fantasy characters I've seen in the world. He resonates with me on new levels. What exactly were your influences in the character when you were constructing him?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Two big influences for Kelsier. The first is, I wanted to do kind of the classic rogue archetype guy, but someone who had had something so fundamentally life-shaking in his life that he had to look deep within and become somebody else. But it's mixed with the other big inspiration, which is, there's kind of some psychopathic tendencies to him, and he would be a villain in many other books. But in this one, he's what the world needed. And those two combinations created for me a really nice tension inside a character.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

And as I said, Miles comparing himself to Kel was accurate. Their motivations were the same. I don't think that was an accident. 

16 minutes ago, Karger said:

True to an extent but the only thing we have seen him do recently is help out a struggling civilization which I would not call immoral.  You could say it earns him the secret handshake.

He saved them, set himself up as a God King, and created a society in which metalborn are held in both awe and fear if the southerners reactions are any sign. 

He feels far more like TLR 2.0 than a benevolent savior.

Edit: let me be clear here. I absolutely love Kelsier as a character, and I relate to parts of him far more than I'm comfortable with. I'm not saying this to demonize him in any way. I just think the circumstances of the final empire make people see him as far more heroic than he was. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Calderis

[SwordNimiForPresident]

3 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Kelsier is a Sociopath. Brandon uses the word Psychopath. He's manipulative of everyone around him, and amazingly self serving.

Brandon used the words "certain psychopathic tendencies". You could say this of anyone that is able to kill another human and not feel remorse. Personally I think that most of the people he killed had it coming and he was justified in not feeling guilty.

5 minutes ago, Calderis said:

His revolution and religion with the Skaa was driven with helping them as a secondary goal to his revenge. I fully believe that if he had a an option that he thought was better he'd have taken it.

He chose to die to save a few of his friends. Not even people that were important to his schemes (unless you count that he needed OreSeur to imitate him after he died {super not selfish} and who also would not have died from beheading). He pretty much gave up any chance of getting revenge personally in order to save a bunch of nobodies that he felt responsible for. Your hypothetical "better way" was right there, all he had to do is not save them.

10 minutes ago, Calderis said:

He manipulated Sazed and Spook. 

"give the boy powers. He deserves it." 

"hey Spook, you're a Mistborn already. You're halfway to immortality already. Help me with this spike research."

Everything Kel did helped himself first, and everyone else second.

You could also say that those things helped someone else first and Kelsier as a happy bonus. It's not self serving to giving someone else great power and have hope that they can help you out of a bad situation later.

12 minutes ago, Calderis said:

As to the idea that he would be a villain in other circumstances... Again that's from Brandon.

Of course he could, he is a terrorist. He also happens to be fighting for a good cause.

13 minutes ago, Calderis said:

And as I said, Miles comparing himself to Kel was accurate. Their motivations were the same. I don't think that was an accident.

Mile's situation would basically be like Kelsier working for Rashek and then trying to say that he was fighting the system. If Mile's was like Kelsier, Suit would have been dead in book 1.

15 minutes ago, Calderis said:

He saved them, set himself up as a God King, and created a society in which metal born are held in both awe and fear if the southerners reactions are any sign. 

He feels far more like TLR 2.0 than a benevolent savior. 

Maybe worship is just a natural reaction to the Immortal Fullborn that single handedly saved your entire civilization. It's probably what made him leave TBH, he wouldn't have liked the obvious parallel to Rashek.

TLR 2.0 who set his people up for success and then left them to make their own destiny.

[Calderis]

Just now, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Brandon used the words "certain psychopathic tendencies".

You apparently did not click the link. 

Quote

i_are_pant

1. Which of your protagonist characters do you dislike the most as a person? Taking into account that you know all of their inner secrets and motivations.2. On the flip side. Which of your antagonists do you connect with the most? The Lord Ruler seems an obvious choice as he was misunderstood by everybody for so long. But still, I'm curious.

Brandon Sanderson

 

• This is a tough one, as while I'm writing, I HAVE to like everyone. However, the most disturbing of them is probably Kelsier. He's a psychopath--meaning the actual, technical term. Lack of empathy, egotism, lack of fear. If his life had gone differently, he could have been a very, very evil dude.

• Elend. I see myself as an idealist like him.

 

/r/fantasy AMA 2013 (April 17, 2013)

 

2 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

He chose to die to save a few of his friends. Not even people that were important to his schemes (unless you count that he needed OreSeur to imitate him after he died {super not selfish} and who also would not have died from beheading). He pretty much gave up any chance of getting revenge personally in order to save a bunch of nobodies that he felt responsible for. Your hypothetical "better way" was right there, all he had to do is not save them.

He died, because it was the only way to ensure the uprising he wanted end the final empire. His revenge was more important than his own life... And we saw how willing he was to actually die. 

That's another example. He chose continued existence with none of the people he cared about over the seemingly apparent promise of Mare and eventually Vin and all of them.

As to anything else... We'll just have to wait and see. But I expect a lot of people to be upset that Kelsier is not who they want him to be. 

[Karger]

I get the impression that modern people view metalborn worship as superstitious and amusing.  Yes Kelsier is manipulative and somewhat arrogant but the fact of the matter is he choose to have mercy on the noblemen of the citadel as apposed to sending Vin after them, he did care for the skaa and his friends admit that they were better people once they had been manipulated by Kelsier.