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Is the sibling the spren of urithiru ?


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I'm so confused by the WoB and then the walking back of the WoB seeming to clash with OB text where Stormfather is stunned that Dalinar can renew spheres.  I would have thought, given there are 3 specific, very different seeming superspren, each bondsmith had a different perk along with the standard Bondsmith abilities. 

Now that I think about it I guess all three Spren may mess with spiritual realm things directly in different ways. 

Nightwatcher doesn't renew spheres as far as we can tell, she modifies people. She messes with their spiritweb, so she manipulates the spiritual realm.

Sibling probably powers/is Urithiru. Implicit in that powering is that it's filing gems in the core with investiture;  either with itself or stormlight. 

Perhaps, since Bondsmiths can manipulate spiritual aspects through Adhesion they can touch the spiritual realm and yank a bit of investiture out like Dalinar seemed to do when he activated the Oathgate.  

If they can all clap and make a perpendicularity I will be annoyed. Seems like a Dalinar/Stormfather/Tanavast CS thing. Only Dalinar gets to do the last clap! Besides Stormfather seemed clear that no Bondsmith had done that before. 

Edited by Child of Hodor
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For what it's worth, the Coppermind currently describes it basically as a resonance effect using both Tension and Adhesion Surges to pull the Realms together.  But I have no idea who wrote that, and the reference they use is this same Idaho Falls WOB so I think they were jumping to a few conclusions there. 

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My personal theory at the moment (I have no evidence to back it up) is that the sibling was “sleeping” because the Bondsmith that was bonded to it (I am assuming there was one) died or defected to Odium’s side.

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15 minutes ago, Lunamor said:

My personal theory at the moment (I have no evidence to back it up) is that the sibling was “sleeping” because the Bondsmith that was bonded to it (I am assuming there was one) died or defected to Odium’s side.

huh, I never considered the defection angle. I'd been mostly assuming the Sibling was bonded at the time of the Recreance and was injured in the same way as the Maya and the other eyeless shardspren.  

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7 minutes ago, Calderis said:

And I still err on the Stormfather for that. The things that Pattern and Syl say about the Recreance effects on him, and that he was one of the few "survivors" makes me think that Melishi was bonded to him. 

This would imply that Melishi did not betray his oath.

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Just now, Calderis said:
5 minutes ago, Karger said:

 

Or that the Stormfather was able to survive the bond somehow.

How?  As far as we have seen when the radiant betrays his oath the spren dies.  Also the only spren that seems at all damaged is the sibling the stormfather seems fine. (For a grumpy storm spirit with a god complex)

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@Karger there are multiple differences. As @CrazyRiotersays, Bondsmiths have never had blades, which considering the way I think a deadeye happens is a big reason in itself. 

Second, the Bondsmiths pen themselves are already somewhat unique and appear to exist, at least for the Stormfather and Nightwatcher, primarily in the Physical to begin with, which again ties back into what I believe breaking the oath does to the spren. 

Finally, regardless of which spren was bonded, we've met the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher, and Brandon has heavily implied that we'll meet the Sibling soon, and according to the Stormfather the sibling still lives. Whichever spren was bonded survived. 

 

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I realize we are talking about spren dying which is not a well understood concept to begin with but it seems to me the most logical that the spren that is the most injured belond to the bondsmith the broke their oath.  The stormfather heavily implies that Dalinar could kill him and causes him pain.

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4 minutes ago, Karger said:

I realize we are talking about spren dying which is not a well understood concept to begin with but it seems to me the most logical that the spren that is the most injured belond to the bondsmith the broke their oath.  The stormfather heavily implies that Dalinar could kill him and causes him pain.

And the gem archive implies that the sibling was withdrawing from Urithiru and the city was failing before the recreance occurred, and had been for some time, as it's withdrawal was a subject of debate. 

I don't think that would have been occurring at all if the sibling was either bonded, or required bond for Urithiru to function... Otherwise they would have understood exactly what was happening from every other time that the Sibling were without a bond. 

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Syl also could be described as withdrawing during the time Kaladin was breaking his oath.  Also maybe that was a self defense mechanism that allowed the spren to survive.  Backing up before the recreance happens so that you don't die seems like a smart plan.

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19 minutes ago, Karger said:

Syl also could be described as withdrawing during the time Kaladin was breaking his oath.  Also maybe that was a self defense mechanism that allowed the spren to survive.  Backing up before the recreance happens so that you don't die seems like a smart plan.

And in that time frame, Kaladin was unable to use his abilities... Which with Melishi were apparently an integral part of the plan to end the Voidbringers. It would also, again, be a dead giveaway to everyone what was happening and end the debate. 

Quote

My research into the cognitive reflections of spren at the tower has been deeply illustrative. Some thought that the Sibling had withdrawn from men by intent—but I find counter to that theory.
—From drawer 1-1, first zircon

Something is happening to the Sibling. I agree this is true, but the division among the Knights Radiant is not to blame. Our perceived worthiness is a separate issue.
—From drawer 1-1, third zircon

Whatever happened with the sibling seems to be a precursor which makes the other events difficult to explain. 

Edited by Calderis
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12 minutes ago, ScavellTane said:

Could the Bondsmiths not having blade imply that their spren did not copy the Honorblades like the other Radiant spren?

I think so. I also think that, as they mainly exist in the Physical Realm to start with, that the bond does not cripple them in the same way as more typical spren. 

The Stormfather is definetly more capable of understanding humans with a bond, but he doesn't seem to have needed one to think to begin with. 

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12 minutes ago, ScavellTane said:

Could the Bondsmiths not having blade imply that their spren did not copy the Honorblades like the other Radiant spren?

I think the critical thing they were copying was the Nahel Bond itself, which the the honorblade do accomplish but in a much more limited and shallow way.  The Godspren's historic resistance to forming a blade is (I suspect) more due to the fact that they (or at least the Stormfather for certain) already have a very specific physical manifestation, so to form a blade would be to diver t their physical aspect away from the storm itself

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On 3/13/2019 at 8:27 PM, Calderis said:

Or that the Stormfather was able to survive the bond somehow.

On 3/13/2019 at 10:02 PM, Calderis said:

I think so. I also think that, as they mainly exist in the Physical Realm to start with, that the bond does not cripple them in the same way as more typical spren. 

The Stormfather is definetly more capable of understanding humans with a bond, but he doesn't seem to have needed one to think to begin with. 

One of the three Bondsmith spren must have survived the breaking of the bond based on what we know. We know there was a bondsmith Melishi who was needed to capture an Unmade right before the Recreance started. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Melishi

We know the Skybreakers were the only order not to break their oaths. 9 out of 10 did.  WoR ch. 41 epigraph. The Bondsmith must have broken their oath and whatever spren was bonded survived. Unless Melishi died in between capturing Ba-Ado-Mishram and the Recreance starting, in that like 2 hour time gap, but that seems too convenient. 

As was shown above, Sibling was already retreating and was a big reason why Urithiru was abandoned. Probably Stormfather, just because he seems the easiest to find and bond of the three. If I had the opportunity to bond the Nightwatcher and have her hanging around me all the time I'd be like "Nah, I'm good." :) 

 

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