Captain Marvel

[Pagliacci]

1 hour ago, Retsam said:

And I'll especially be pretty frustrated if the movie boils down to "and then Captain Marvel shows up and saves everyone", not because I have any particular beef with Captain Marvel, but just because introducing a powerful character out of nowhere to defeat an antagonist is a really unsatisfying resolution.  I have a bit of trust that they won't do that... but it wouldn't exactly be the first plot misstep in a MCU movie.  (I think they tend to do a *great* job with characters, and just an okay job with plot)

I've personally never understood this concern people seem to have. I've always thought the directors and writers would be competent enough not just to use CM in this manner. My speculation is that in the end the gauntlet is given to CM for safekeeping, like Adam Warlock in Infinity Gauntlet, CM established that Danvers can hold infinity stones.

[Orlion Blight]

On 3/22/2019 at 0:59 AM, Pagliacci said:

I've personally never understood this concern people seem to have. I've always thought the directors and writers would be competent enough not just to use CM in this manner. My speculation is that in the end the gauntlet is given to CM for safekeeping, like Adam Warlock in Infinity Gauntlet, CM established that Danvers can hold infinity stones.

It's been established for years (possibly since after the first Avengers movie) that Captain Marvel would be introduced between the third and fourth Avengers movie. Only now is it a problem because of... reasons? 

It certainly is not because of "story concerns" because storywise, Captain Marvel is introduced right at the end of Infinity Wars as a teaser and a reason to hope, giving a valid reason to indulge in a prequel movie before Endgame. Captain Marvel is prepped more than Vision was when he came out of nowhere and saved the world in Age of Ultron. No one complains about that, I wonder why? 

And when watching the movie, it's apparent that Captain Marvel cannot beat up Thanos as he is now. Captain Marvel gets her power from an Infinity Stone, much like Vision and Scarlet Witch who did not put up much of a fight for Thanos. If she was in Infinity Wars, she would have failed like everyone else did. 

She is not a magical "resolve Thanos problem" card. She is probably just stronger than Thor (who also beat someone who was using an Infinity Stone)...

But I'm rambling. 

Essentially, people are forgetting that these are Marvel movies, that they got the formula down and we are going to get a fun Marvel movie in Endgame where the Snap will be undone. Really, the last misstep Marvel made was Age of Ultron.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Greywatch
Staff edit

[Orlion Blight]

Here's the original schedule after Age of Ultron, as you see, they have planned on Captain Marvel being released between the two Infinity movies since at least before Civil War.

[+Invocation]

3 hours ago, TheOrlionThatComesBefore said:

Here's the original schedule after Age of Ultron, as you see, they have planned on Captain Marvel being released between the two Infinity movies since at least before Civil War.

Wait that was a thing this whole time that I could have been looking up and seeing the schedule?

[Orlion Blight]

8 minutes ago, Invocation said:

Wait that was a thing this whole time that I could have been looking up and seeing the schedule?

Yep, with the only major changes being the addition of Ant-man movies and Inhumans being cancelled. 

And Spiderman. That was not yet a thing when this version of the release schedule was released. 

[Retsam]

 

7 hours ago, TheOrlionThatComesBefore said:

It's people grousing over nothing and forgetting recent history like the senile fans they are. It's been established for years (possibly since after the first Avengers movie) that Captain Marvel would be introduced between the third and fourth Avengers movie. Only now is it a problem because of... reasons? 

It certainly is not because of "story concerns" because storywise, Captain Marvel is introduced right at the end of Infinity Wars as a teaser and a reason to hope, giving a valid reason to indulge in a prequel movie before Endgame. Captain Marvel is prepped more than Vision was when he came out of nowhere and saved the world in Age of Ultron. No one complains about that, I wonder why?

I don't care if "introducing a major character in the middle of the climax" has been the plan from the moment Iron Man debuted, I still think it's narratively awkward.  

Apparently I'm a "senile old fan" for not having absolute trust in Marvel's storytelling.  As a matter of fact, yes, I do think the resolution to Age of Ultron was really unsatisfying, (and frankly that Vision's entire character has been badly done in the MCU).  And, incidentally that's a big reason why I don't have absolute faith that Marvel is not going to do basically the same thing this time.  Again, I'm not saying they're definitely going to screw it up, I don't have a crystal ball.  All I said is "if they resolve it this one particular way, I think that would be a bad resolution".  

But please keep going, it sure is fun having a discussion where if you say any negative thing you're accused of being sexist. It's not toxic at all.  

Edited March 22, 2019 by Retsam
grammar

[not an Evil Librarian]

Captain Marvel was fine. I'd put it on the same level as The First Avenger. there were some great performances and some funny moments. but overall, the movie felt flat to me. Brie Larson's performance as Carol Danvers felt completely devoid of emotion and has an utter lack of character development. which is strange considering 

Spoiler

 

Everybody keeps insisting that she needs to learn how to control her emotions, yet she seems like the least emotional character in this movie. When she learns that all of her life that she can remember is a lie and that she was fighting the wrong side of a war for her entire remembered existence, she didn't seem more than mildly upset when such a revelation should have been world-shattering. 

The "I have nothing to prove to you" moment feels empty because at no point in the film does it ever feel like she does have anything to prove to him. She used her powers to beat him in the beginning, and did so at the end. No growth. No development beyond that of becoming super OP.

 

the action sequences and fight scenes were confusing, usually being too dark and/or dusty to tell what was happening, and the cinematography was bad. For example,

 

Spoiler

when she decides to change the color of her suit, it's supposed to be a big reveal. The suit reveal is arguably the most important part of any superhero origin story. It marks the moment when the protagonist truly becomes the hero. Yet, in this movie, it's too dark to tell the difference between these colors, and the many they just flashed through moments ago. 

The CGI wasn't very good, and there were some utterly atrocious greenscreen moments, but Marvel isn't exactly known for their amazing special effects, so that didn't really matter to me. 

Samuel L Jackson did a great performance as nick fury, but the story itself kind of butchers his character. 

 

Spoiler

Nick furry has always been one of the most mysterious characters in the MCU. that is part of what made his character so intriguing. yet in this movie, he seems like an average Joe. he seems like a nice, cat loving person. He has no secrets and withholds no information. not to mention the way he lost his eye. The Winter Soldier alludes to this moment with the Line "Last time I trusted someone I lost an eye". This line implies a heart wrenching and emotional betrayal by someone that Fury deeply trusted. after watching Captain Marvel, that scene almost becomes comical. 

I had many more issues with the movie, and only have time to write about these few. However, I still found the movie fairly enjoyable. Although admittedly, when I was watching the film it felt more like I was watching a really good, high budget fan film than anything else. 

Edited March 23, 2019 by not an Evil Librarian

[Pagliacci]

36 minutes ago, Retsam said:

Apparently I'm a "senile old fan" for not having absolute trust in Marvel's storytelling.  As a matter of fact, yes, I do think the resolution to Age of Ultron was really unsatisfying, (and frankly that Vision's entire character has been badly done in the MCU).  And, incidentally that's a big reason why I don't have absolute faith that Marvel is not going to do basically the same thing this time.  Again, I'm not saying they're definitely going to screw it up, I don't have a crystal ball.  All I said is "if they resolve it this one particular way, I think that would be a bad resolution".  

But please keep going, it sure is fun having a discussion where if you say any negative thing you're accused of being sexist. It's not toxic at all.  

My apologies, It was not my intent to suggest you (or any other fan) was at fault. If I have caused any offence the fault is upon me. Your opinions are your own and you have every right to be concerned about how Endgame will resolve. I'd forgotten about the Deus Ex Machina at the end of Age of Ultron so Marvel isn't unfallable :). I agree Captain Marvel's release is timed poorly, all I meant to suggest was that I'd assumed that the writers at Marvel would understand the basic concept of conflict enough and wouldn't go over the same mistakes. Looking back over the my previous post I can see how poorly worded it was.

I hope we can resume discussing this movie without anyone feeling anyone else is slinging metaphorical chull dung at one another*.

Again, sorry!

 

*Did that sound corny? I'm not used to talking on the internet.

[Orlion Blight]

I won't apologize for what appears to be a blatant misinterpretation my post. I will add some clarifying explanations. 

At no point in the quoted post did I call anyone sexist because the critique I was addressing, that of "introducing a powerful character out of nowhere". The only implied point was that a big portion of the MCU was the interaction between producers and the fans, which causes hype and expectation including "hey, Captain Marvel is being introduced between the Avengers two parter." Something that fans have been speculating on for years. To say that it came out of nowhere is akin to having a mental fugue because the nature of how the MCU is experienced with schedule releases and hype making mean that we knew  this character was being introduced at this time for a while. 

Then I briefly laid out why I don't think she will singularly resolve the Thanos problem... because there is plenty of examples of characters with similar power sets that could not do it. So whatever mistakes Endgame might make is not going to be, "thank god Captain Marvel showed up and single-handedly saved the day! "

What I actually think will happen? Her biggest contribution will be to provide the means/ energy to transport the Avengers where Thanos is at (quantum realm will be used to find where he is). She'll participate in the final battle, but the key characters that will defeat  Thanos and reverse the snap will be Iron Man and Captain America. 

Edited March 23, 2019 by TheOrlionThatComesBefore