31 posts in this topic

Ok, so bear with me on this one.

Something has been bothering me, like many who read Oathbringer, ever since Odium said "We killed you." Like many Stormlight fans, I have been mentally (and literally) screaming "What do you mean by WE!" And anyway I've done some thinking, and I think that Unity, instead of a new Shard, as many have theorized, is actually and old Shard that used to live on Roshar. A Shard that was (presumably) killed by Odium and ((possibly Honor?)) (((Working together?)))

There is a little possible evidence for this. In the death rattles, one of them goes like "Three of Sixteen ruled, now the broken one reigns" or something like that. Feel free to correct that. Anyway, the way that is worded makes it seem like Odium, the broken one, is not in that original three. Also, since we know there are 3 god-spren--the Storm dad, Nightwatcher, and the Sibling, that leads me to believe that there used to be 3 Shards other than Odium, since it doesn't make sense to me that a Knight Raidiant would bond to a spren of Odium, or that Cultivation or Honor would have two god-spren.

That other Shard, Unity, was not liked by Honor or Cultivation or any other Shard. Which makes sense, because they might feel threatened by the fact that he might try to Unite the Shards back into Adonalsium or something.

I'm thinking that the Cryptics might be spren of Unity, which is why nobody likes them. It also just makes sense, because math and lies don't really make sense as belonging to Honor or Cultivation, but I can see Unity liking the fact that math is a unifying principle of the universe or something like that. Also, it would make sense because the Dawn Cities are all math based, and they are linked the Uthirthiru in some way ( I think theres a line about the strata being similar? And they both are grown out of rock? Feel free to check that.) And we know that the sibling was related to the tower city as well. So, if the Sibling is a spren of Unity, it all works out.  

Honor or Cultivation (or both) wanted to get rid of him, but couldn't due to limitation based on their Shard Intent. Neither of them could kill Unity, so they invited Odium, knowing his violent reputation, to come on over to Roshar so he could take care of Unity.

That also explains why Odium was allowed onto Roshar on the first place, because I feel like two Shards working together could have blocked him from coming there, if they so wished. 

Anyway, Odium splintered Unity (possibly with help from one or more of the other Shards) and decided to stay. Eventually, he also splintered Honor, and Cultivation went into hiding. 

A part of Unity survived, and may have been that voice that's been guiding Dalinar since Book One. That voice seems really distinct from the Stormfather, and I think he once even said so in Oathbringer that he wasn't talking when Dalinar heard the "Unite them" voice. The light that Dalinar feels at the end of books Two and Three may also be the effects of Unity. Dalinar was able to briefly hold whatever is left of Unity, which allowed him to summon the Perpendicularity and all that fun stuff at the end of Book 3. 

I think that as the books progress, we will only keep on seeing how Unity is actually separate, and wants to be revived. 

Some odd bits: The splintering might have been the Scouring of Aimia. The Aimians that are a bunch of cremlings seem like something that Unity might have created or liked (since it's a bunch of cremlings unified into one creature) and he might have lived in Aimia. 

The Unmade might be corrupted Splinters of Unity. I don't think that Odium could have nine relatively large spren of himself and still remain as powerful as he is, so I think he corrupted the Splinters of Unity after he killed him, and those became the Unmade. 

Obviously, it isn't a perfect theory. And if you've made it to the bottom, congrats on somehow getting through all my disorganized thoughts.

Anyway, I want to know what you think, so please feel free to share your thoughts on my theory!

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It's a fun theory! Sadly, according to Brandon, there are only three Shards on Roshar--Honor, Cultivation and Odium.

Quote

Chaos (paraphrased)

How many Shards have existed on Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Three.

Ancient 17S Q&A (May 1, 2010)
Quote

Zas

So the number of Shards that have been on Roshar is three, correct?

Brandon Sanderson

Correct.

Zas

People have been thrown by you saying that Odium is not native to Roshar.

Brandon Sanderson

Odium is not native... see that's the thing. Are any of them native? So if you dig the deeper question, are any of them native, ehhh, none of them are native to the planets that you've seen so far. What I probably should've said to be more precise is that Honor and Cultivation were there long before Odium showed up.

Orem signing (Sept. 22, 2012)

 

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40 minutes ago, ginger_reckoning said:

Ah. Sadness.

What if it was reversed, and Odium called Honor over to Ashyn? 

That way your theory still makes some sense.

Also, welcome to the Shard! 

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Thank you!

2 hours ago, Lord Mistborn Skybreaker said:

What if it was reversed, and Odium called Honor over to Ashyn? 

That way your theory still makes some sense.

Also, welcome to the Shard! 

So are you saying that if Unity existed, he may have lived on Ashyn, not Roshar?

 

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I doubt there was another Shard on Ashyn... especially because of how it was "Destroyed by Surges", which implies the magic was proto-Surgebinding 

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2 hours ago, Inky said:

I doubt there was another Shard on Ashyn... especially because of how it was "Destroyed by Surges", which implies the magic was proto-Surgebinding 

That is true...I can't really counter that, but I still think that there is more to Dalinar saying "I am Unity." Unity seems like a distinct enough trait from Honor that it could be a separate Shard.

Of course, Dalinar might have just been waxing poetic, and not referring to a Shard at all. 

Which, speaking of, Dalinar referenced "Experience" in his Oathbringer epigrams. He says something like "seek her (Experience) out yourself."  Do we have a Words of Brandon on that? Is that a reference to yet another Shard, or just normal personification?

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Unity could easily be a new name for Honor. Shardic intents can change, if only a bit. 

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Posted (edited)

11 minutes ago, Inky said:

Unity could easily be a new name for Honor. Shardic intents can change, if only a bit. 

This is speculation. 

It's speculation that I believe and have been a major proponent of... But the extent to which a shards intent can be altered via interpretation is unknown. 

I fully believe that Unity is a reinterpretation of Honor, but for the time being, the possibility is still not certain. 

Edited by Calderis
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That's why I said "could easily be" and not "is"  :P

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Posted (edited)

1 minute ago, Inky said:

That's why I said "could easily be" and not "is"  :P

I'm not speaking of "unity is honor" specifically. I meant the possibility that interpretation can change the name of a Shard at all. 

Edited by Calderis
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Ah. Well, that aside, Unity is not a Shard in the Rosharan system, or probably a Shard at all (at the moment)

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What if Unity was splintered before arriving on Rroshar?

That would meat there were only three Shards on Roshar. But remains of Unity powers hang around...

And Dad is possibly strong enough to reach power level of Kel when he shattered the sphere.

So...

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That seems unnecessarily complicated

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Inky said:

That seems unnecessarily complicated

The funny thing is that defines half the theories on this site.

Edited by Lord Mistborn Skybreaker
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Ok, then it seems unnecessary. There's no point. 

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The point is to offer a possible explanation of discrepancies that have appeared throughout the series, like the Stormfather claiming to not have sent the light Dalinar feels, or the fact that Brandon won't say what Shard Cryptics come from.  

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Cryptics come from Honor and Cultivation. The Wob you're referring to is that the questioner is asking if the Cryptics come from Honor, Cultivation, or Odium. The light on the other hand is a mystery, yeah. But I don't think it's another Shard because I doubt Odium would have a fighting chance.

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No, the most simple and most likely variant that explains all the theories is: Unity means nothing. Cool one liner to make people speculate. Just like Szeth's I'm Death (also capitalized) and Kelsier's I'm hope. Both really means nothing in terms of...shards and cosmere lore. Why would Unity be different.

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Posted (edited)

30 minutes ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

No, the most simple and most likely variant that explains all the theories is: Unity means nothing. Cool one liner to make people speculate. Just like Szeth's I'm Death (also capitalized) and Kelsier's I'm hope. Both really means nothing in terms of...shards and cosmere lore. Why would Unity be different.

Because the circumstances are drastically different. 

Now let's not derail this thread. 

Edited by Calderis
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Until it got WOB torpedo’d this theory had me convinced this was the secret plot twist everyone missed. :lol:

Have an upvote! Being wrong aside this is really good! ;P

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55 minutes ago, The Technovore said:

Until it got WOB torpedo’d this theory had me convinced this was the secret plot twist everyone missed. :lol:

Have an upvote! Being wrong aside this is really good! ;P

I agree. It didn't quite convince me, but it was well thought out and I hadn't heard it before, which is hard to do on the Shard.

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I don't think that Unity is necessarily another Shard, because if the whole idea that (perhaps) Honor and Odium (or Cultivation) killed Unity, then Dalinar could not become Unity through bonding the Stormfather, whom we definitely know is from Honor. And the Surge that Dalinar gains by bonding with the Stormfather is unity, is it not? Where he lifts and mends the temple in Thaylen City it is quite confirmed by the whole conversation between him and the Stormfather that his ability is to unite (and the whole understanding foreign languages etc.).

And here I am sort of going a different direction, but when Shallan, Kaladin, Adolin and the spren were in Shadesmar, the Honorspren on the ship mentioned that Honor was preparing a heir before Odium killed him.....so maybe Dalinar is becoming a piece of Honor...? And perhaps Honor's heir...? I think that is what Odium meant at the end of Oathbringer when he said that "WE KILLED YOU". Because he killed Honor and now it seems that Honor is returning. But the question still remains; who is the "WE" that he is referring to?

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New question: does odium refer to himself as “I” in the books? He might refer to himself (themselves?) as “we”

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2 hours ago, DoomStick said:

New question: does odium refer to himself as “I” in the books? He might refer to himself (themselves?) as “we”

From what I recall, Odium generally uses the singular.  "I'm the other one" is the first quote that comes to mind, but I don't explicitly remember him ever using the royal we.

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