Alleyverse Character Discussion

[18th Shard Elantrian]

I think another thing to take in consideration is how fleshed out each character is. If you really develop both the Aes Sedai and the Warder, giving them distinct characteristics and personalities, it would be far easier to see them as two characters, whereas if the Warder's characterization ends at "___'s Warder who is good with a sword", that would make them act as essentially one entity, and probably be the situation where they'd count together. (I believe the idea behind counting them as one is if you have, for example, bodyguards, a spren, a pet, etc. that are literally always with the character and aren't really their own entity).

Also not a mod, though.

[Sorana Dawnsinger]

12 hours ago, MysticLotus said:

Question about the post on tag-teaming.

If I made a character who was a Aes Sadai, who had a warder, and the two of them worked together, would that be ok?

Sorry, I'm new to all this.

Hello and welcome!

I'm actually glad that you asked the question before creating the characters, because this is a situation we only had once before!

So in general: we try to keep all characters at about the same level, to make it fair for everybody. The tag-teaming rule is exactly about that: make sure the situation stays fair for both sides. Actually Silva already answered your question correctly:

8 hours ago, Silva said:

Typically, if a character is initially proposed as always being with another character, the two are ranked together. So, with the current point limit of 150(?) from the Index, one could have 60 points worth and the other 90. Given weaknesses to cancel it out, those numbers could go a bit higher, but the idea is that both would be combined, requiring the two to be somewhat weaker individually in order so that they aren't overly powerful, if I recall correctly.

If you write and rp both warder and Aes Sedai and want for them to act together, then you will have to fit both characters within the 150 point border. Their powers complement each other very well and I can't see any logical reason, why they won't tag team in a fight. We do make exceptions (for example if both have exactly the same point powers so that they don't gain much from having it twice (e.g. make it rain - the moment it rains, it rains). Also if you don't plan to write both of them together in the same thread, then of course the situation is different as well.

I know that the whole topic is a bit more complicated than that - of course characters written by the same person can hang out together or interact with each other, as long as they don't team up in a fight.

8 hours ago, kenod said:

On that note though, I'd say it probably won't be too much of an issue in a fight if they don't gang up on the same character, but each fight different ones. Other than that, I'd say them working together on non-combat things wouldn't be an issue, as long as you're not doing anything that somehow abuses the fact that you have multiple characters present. Of course, you could always ask around if anyone else is interested in rping the Warden and solve things that way.

To add something to that: We try to avoid a situation, where it needs two other players to even the odds out against another one. The moment both characters definitely fight together, you have excatly that situation, where you OOC need a 2:1. But yes, non-combat things won't be that much an issue, as long as you don't dominate others.

TLDR: Looking at the concept of Aes'Sedai and Warder I would rank both characters together. Depeding on what you have in mind regarding their power sets, I might up the point cap a little bit, to allow for some duplicate skills, but that really depends on what you plan. In general it would be a lot easier, if you asked around if someone is interested to write one of them, as that allows to avoid the whole topic altogether and both are a character of their own right.

 

[Ashbringer Stone Shaman]

I feel like if an Aes Sedai uses (mostly) the One Power to attack and the Warder uses (mostly) his fighting skill, that kinda balances in a 2v1 against say, a combative 3rd Oath Radiant, who can use both physical Shardblade attacks and invested Surge attacks. But I’ve only read The Eye of the World so that may be completely wrong...

[Lotus Cobalt Guard]

39 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

 

I feel like if an Aes Sedai uses (mostly) the One Power to attack and the Warder uses (mostly) his fighting skill, that kinda balances in a 2v1 against say, a combative 3rd Oath Radiant, who can use both physical Shardblade attacks and invested Surge attacks. But I’ve only read The Eye of the World so that may be completely wrong...

 

I mean, my basic idea for the character is a disorganized, terrible fighter Brown Ajad Aes Sadai, who's Warder is a Soother. I mean, even both together I think will be below average when it comes to fighting. But, I can post my idea for the forms and see what people think.

[18th Shard Elantrian]

The difference comes in an Aes Sedai's versatility with the One Power. 

Spoiler

An Aes Sedai can, for instance,

• heal on par with Progression;
• Travel using gateways on par Elsecallers through the Physical Realm;
• use said gateways as blades pretty much anywhere they can see (the edges of the gateway cut through whatever hits them - one character creates spinning gateways that cut through an army);
• use said gateways to open a hole into a volcano or the ocean; 
• cast massive waves of fire;
• immobilize with weaves of Air;
• create a Compulsion that allows them to control someone;
• literally burn something backwards in time with balefire;
• create lights and illusions on par with Lightweavers;
• eavesdrop;
• etc.

While most Aes Sedai are less inventive with their uses of these weaves, I think a decently powerful Aes Sedai (particularly in a world less dominated by use of the One Power) would be able to easily overwhelm almost any Radiant at a distance. The balancing factor is the Three Oaths (not to kill any except Shadowspawn/Darkfriends or in her own mortal peril or that of her Warder, not to lie, and not to make a weapon for man to kill another), but I can easily think of ways to force oneself into mortal danger to allow you to kill using the One Power.  

The biggest counter to channelers in WoT is other channelers, or causing situations that require one to counter in multiple places (you can't fight two battles at once), but in the Alleyverse, I don't think there would be almost any non-DA character who could win a straight fight against an Aes Sedai who is inventive and skilled with their weaves (if you ignore things like Leeching working on an Aes Sedai). Surprising an Aes Sedai before they can respond is likely the only way to get a good fight with any character of ordinary power level.

[kenod Seer]

21 minutes ago, 18th Shard said:

The difference comes in an Aes Sedai's versatility with the One Power. 

  Hide contents

An Aes Sedai can, for instance,

• heal on par with Progression;
• Travel using gateways on par Elsecallers through the Physical Realm;
• use said gateways as blades pretty much anywhere they can see (the edges of the gateway cut through whatever hits them - one character creates spinning gateways that cut through an army);
• use said gateways to open a hole into a volcano or the ocean; 
• cast massive waves of fire;
• immobilize with weaves of Air;
• create a Compulsion that allows them to control someone;
• literally burn something backwards in time with balefire;
• create lights and illusions on par with Lightweavers;
• eavesdrop;
• etc.

While most Aes Sedai are less inventive with their uses of these weaves, I think a decently powerful Aes Sedai (particularly in a world less dominated by use of the One Power) would be able to easily overwhelm almost any Radiant at a distance. The balancing factor is the Three Oaths (not to kill any except Shadowspawn/Darkfriends or in her own mortal peril or that of her Warder, not to lie, and not to make a weapon for man to kill another), but I can easily think of ways to force oneself into mortal danger to allow you to kill using the One Power.  

The biggest counter to channelers in WoT is other channelers, or causing situations that require one to counter in multiple places (you can't fight two battles at once), but in the Alleyverse, I don't think there would be almost any non-DA character who could win a straight fight against an Aes Sedai who is inventive and skilled with their weaves (if you ignore things like Leeching working on an Aes Sedai). Surprising an Aes Sedai before they can respond is likely the only way to get a good fight with any character of ordinary power level.

Even with the no killing they can easily tie multiple opponents up in air and immobilize them, which ends a fight just as quickly as killing them does. Depending on how channeler-cosmere interactions are judged to work the only counter I can see is cutting or disrupting weaves with aluminium, but on the flipside, that should also imply shielding an investure user would block them from using their powers, and might even allow severing to remove a person's access to their powers permanently (could investure-based healing heal severing or burning out?).

[18th Shard Elantrian]

I think you could heal severing (see the WoB below) since it is possible to heal damage from being spiked (though you probably need some hacks), but yes, I think if Leeching would disrupt the One Power, an Aes Sedai could shield a Misting. Excepting Epic powers, there are very few abilities that could survive being gated into the mantle of the planet, and most of those wouldn't get past a shield of air. The only ways I could think of winning used something like a duralumin-powered Soothing or steel Compounding to win before the Aes Sedai can react. 

Spoiler

Kurkistan

Could Miles heal back his Allomancy if it was spiked out of him?

Brandon Sanderson

No, he could not. He would no longer be an Allomancer. Also, he'd probably be dead.

Kurkistan

Thanks!

I'd thought maybe he could just do some super-tapping from his existing Health in his goldminds (since he'd still have his Feruchemy)...

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, I see what you're asking. Using Feruchemy to heal the removed portion of soul. That's actually plausible, not so different from healing other kinds of soul-wounds. If he survived, then yes, this actually might work. (That's why I get for reading the questions so quickly.)

Goodreads: Ask the Author Q&A (Aug. 13, 2014)

 

[Voidus God Beyond]

Gateways require a level of strength in the power that are almost impossible for an AV character to achieve, they would need a lot of weaknesses to get to that strength (It's rated at around 450 points currently). I'm actually revising the One Power section of the Index in light of this discussion because I have noted that it's somewhat dated and difficult to read. Already made one update to hopefully make it easier, I removed the gender separation because 1. I feel like we can probably do away with those gender tropes here and 2. the rating scale is gender agnostic anyway other than what levels individuals could reach at the maximum but individual levels represent the same strength for both.
The maximum level that can be achieved without taking weaknesses into account would rank quite low among the modern Aes Sedai. Enough to take the tests but well below average.

[Lotus Cobalt Guard]

5 minutes ago, Voidus said:

Enough to take the tests but well below average.

Yeah, that was already my plan. But the Aes Sadai section is mess, so thanks for looking into fixing it.

[18th Shard Elantrian]

18 hours ago, Voidus said:

Gateways require a level of strength in the power that are almost impossible for an AV character to achieve, they would need a lot of weaknesses to get to that strength (It's rated at around 450 points currently). I'm actually revising the One Power section of the Index in light of this discussion because I have noted that it's somewhat dated and difficult to read. Already made one update to hopefully make it easier, I removed the gender separation because 1. I feel like we can probably do away with those gender tropes here and 2. the rating scale is gender agnostic anyway other than what levels individuals could reach at the maximum but individual levels represent the same strength for both.
The maximum level that can be achieved without taking weaknesses into account would rank quite low among the modern Aes Sedai. Enough to take the tests but well below average.

It might be helpful to link this page on Tor's site - which is where the rankings in the Index come from, I believe. I didn't realize how high up in power a lot of WoT main characters are till I looked at the chart.

https://www.tor.com/2015/10/27/the-wheel-of-time-companion-strength-chart-of-major-channelers/

[Dannex Honorspren]

Gosh dangit.

I was just about to propose an idea for my first character in this thread, I had like 5 paragraphs of ideas and questions typed up about this character, and when I went through and re-read it, I realized I had just created Hoid. I accidentally created Hoid as a RP character. SMH.
sighhh

Back to the drawing board. 

[Sorana Dawnsinger]

5 minutes ago, Danex said:

I accidentally created Hoid as a RP character.

Do you per chance still have what you wrote? Would be interesting to see it.

[Dannex Honorspren]

I don’t, but here’s a quick rundown of my thought process. 

“Okay, hmm, what kind of character do I want to create. Well, I want them to be an Allomancer or Feruchemist, because I like those magic systems. Maybe both? What about a compounder? I like gold compounding, Miles Hundredlives was a great character. Gold compounding is cool, such an interesting form of immortality. Hey, maybe I should figure out a way do make some sort of immortality character. I’ve been listening to the musical Tuck Everlasting a lot recently and they have an interesting kind of immortality. How can I recreate that kind of immortality as a character? Let’s see, they wouldn’t age, and can’t die from any wounds. Gold and Atium compounding? Nonono, that’s way to OP. I don’t want them to be able to burn Atium anyway. Maybe to balance the OPness I have them not fight people. Like they actually don’t have the capacity to fight people, maybe they’re just unskilled in combat. Well, let’s figure out how to make them immortal later, how would I make this character interesting? I want them to be really really old. They could be lonely, as everyone they know died ages ago. Depressed, doesn’t make connections well. That could be interesting. What about the physical immortality, how do I make that interesting? I think the Gold compounding could result in some comical interactions, like they get stabbed and don't care, or fall from really high and walk it off. So I do want them to be comical, a funny character. But, I also want them to be really ancient. So, a humorous character on the outside, but lonely, wise, sad, and ancient on the inside. Also, Non-combative to offset the OPness of immortality. Wait a second.....”

[DramaQueen Seer]

16 hours ago, Danex said:

I don’t, but here’s a quick rundown of my thought process. 

“Okay, hmm, what kind of character do I want to create. Well, I want them to be an Allomancer or Feruchemist, because I like those magic systems. Maybe both? What about a compounder? I like gold compounding, Miles Hundredlives was a great character. Gold compounding is cool, such an interesting form of immortality. Hey, maybe I should figure out a way do make some sort of immortality character. I’ve been listening to the musical Tuck Everlasting a lot recently and they have an interesting kind of immortality. How can I recreate that kind of immortality as a character? Let’s see, they wouldn’t age, and can’t die from any wounds. Gold and Atium compounding? Nonono, that’s way to OP. I don’t want them to be able to burn Atium anyway. Maybe to balance the OPness I have them not fight people. Like they actually don’t have the capacity to fight people, maybe they’re just unskilled in combat. Well, let’s figure out how to make them immortal later, how would I make this character interesting? I want them to be really really old. They could be lonely, as everyone they know died ages ago. Depressed, doesn’t make connections well. That could be interesting. What about the physical immortality, how do I make that interesting? I think the Gold compounding could result in some comical interactions, like they get stabbed and don't care, or fall from really high and walk it off. So I do want them to be comical, a funny character. But, I also want them to be really ancient. So, a humorous character on the outside, but lonely, wise, sad, and ancient on the inside. Also, Non-combative to offset the OPness of immortality. Wait a second.....”

Did you lose one of your brain cells thinking like that? 

[Dannex Honorspren]

On 8/10/2020 at 5:28 PM, DramaQueen said:

Did you lose one of your brain cells thinking like that? 

Probably.

Also, I just did it again.

but with Gemmel this time.

dang you Brandon, stop having already made the characters I want to RP. He’s copying me but backwards.

[Sorana Dawnsinger]

Quote

Thanks!

Fuji won't always be at his library, he will sometimes be out collecting books.

I don't think that very many weapons could hurt him. Curators can be incorperable, (no idea if that's spelled right) so most would just go through him. He isn't very hostile, he just wants your soul. 

As for investiture, I don't think things like gravitation and transformation would work on him. You could probably else call him thought.

 

@Kings_way

I have to admit, I feel as if we need to talk about that for a bit, as it's pretty vague right now. If I understood you correctly:

1) weapons aren't able to hurt him, when he hasn't formed a body --> what about Invested weapons? A shard blade for example hurts the soul first and the flesh second.

2) Investiture: Investiture relying on targeting the body won't work, as he has no body, Investiture targetting his 'essence/ soul' does?

[Esane Lighteyes]

I dont know if this is the right thread to ask this but I could not find a better place, so.......

How do you hide contents?

[kenod Seer]

1 hour ago, Esane said:

I dont know if this is the right thread to ask this but I could not find a better place, so.......

How do you hide contents?

Hide as in like this?

Spoiler

Hidden text

There's an eye button in the text editor bar (the bar that also has the options for bold and italic text). Clicking that gives you a spoiler box

[Esane Lighteyes]

1 minute ago, kenod said:

Hide as in like this?

  Reveal hidden contents

Hidden text

There's an eye button in the text editor bar (the bar that also has the options for bold and italic text). Clicking that gives you a spoiler box

THANK YOU SO MUCH

[Kings_way Forescout]

On 8/18/2020 at 3:11 AM, Sorana said:

 

@Kings_way

I have to admit, I feel as if we need to talk about that for a bit, as it's pretty vague right now. If I understood you correctly:

1) weapons aren't able to hurt him, when he hasn't formed a body --> what about Invested weapons? A shard blade for example hurts the soul first and the flesh second.

2) Investiture: Investiture relying on targeting the body won't work, as he has no body, Investiture targetting his 'essence/ soul' does?

1)Yes, normal weapons go through him. I was thinking about shardblades, and I was wondering if Curators souls are contained in their bodies? If they aren't, then shardblade wouldn't hurt them.

2)Also yes. He has no physical substance.

[Sorana Dawnsinger]

13 hours ago, Kings_way said:

1)Yes, normal weapons go through him. I was thinking about shardblades, and I was wondering if Curators souls are contained in their bodies? If they aren't, then shardblade wouldn't hurt them.

2)Also yes. He has no physical substance.

1) I have no idea, to be honest.

Based on that I would suggest the following: he can't be affected by physical stuff (weapons, stones, Investiture affection only the body), but he can be affected by everything targeting something else (shardblades, allomantic allomancy,...) that should make it easy to divide what should work and what doesn't.

[Kings_way Forescout]

On 8/20/2020 at 1:27 AM, Sorana said:

1) I have no idea, to be honest.

Based on that I would suggest the following: he can't be affected by physical stuff (weapons, stones, Investiture affection only the body), but he can be affected by everything targeting something else (shardblades, allomantic allomancy,...) that should make it easy to divide what should work and what doesn't.

Yes, that makes sense.

[Sorana Dawnsinger]

9 hours ago, Kings_way said:

Yes, that makes sense.

Okay! Consider him approved!

[Dannex Honorspren]

Just out of curiosity, what’s the most OP Alleyverse character that’s been approved? Like index-wise, what was the power number?

[Voidus God Beyond]

Technically I suppose that'd be a toss up on the Stranger and Voidus at functionally infinite.