Alleyverse Character Discussion

[18th Shard]

@SingingMosaic So thinking over it, I had some ideas for how to incorporate your character's abilities into the cosmere, but I'll warn you it is jumping off the deep end into the weirdness of the Alleyverse.

So the 3 abilities I picked out that were the most central/unique to your character were 1) the floating eyeball, 2) the sense of weird, and 3) the empathy (which as Sorana noted is a little bit difficult to implement).

These were the thoughts of how to incorporate them.

First, have your character by a Sleepless, a Dysian Aimian. This allows your character to have a specially-bred hordeling that can fly as an eyeball - there's your floating eyeball. 

Second, have this Sleepless have spent a lot of time on First of the Sun, and have bred hordelings that have symbiotically bonded with the worms from Patji. This allows you to have less crustacean hordleings and also to have developed abilities like animals from Patji. Some off the hordelings could have developed an Aviar-like ability to sense danger (like Sak). Others could have developed the ability to sense people by their Cognitive Aspects, similar to many of Patji's predators like nightmaws. 

A Sleepless is 45 points, the spiritual-warning Aviar is another 40, and I think the Cognitive sense would be comparable to life-sense and Allomantic copper (so 25-35 ish?). 

@Sorana might be able to say how much those ideas translate to your original character.

Edited May 16, 2020 by 18th Shard

[SingingMosaic]

@Ashbringer

I like the idea of Dot being an artifabrian. So this would leave that, his scholarship, his bow, and his spiked Steelrunning. And

@18th Shard

The weirder, the better. If that's the only way to go with the eye I might, I could also easily see his personality fitting a Sleepless well. Just one that got more involved with other beings than most. It does also fit my mental image of the original Dot, who is biologically 29, but in my head is an unknown and large number of years older.

@ZincAboutIt

I thought about doing that but I'll wait until people get a feel for how I do things and how I handle the ooc behind the scenes stuff because I agree, something like that sounds like it could be fun if you really knew who you were roleplaying with.

[+Sorana]

I honestly like the ideas a lot! He should end up well within borders and with the Sleepless and everything, he definitely is weird and something we never had before in the Alleyverse as well.

Regarding the Empathy, I personally agree with Zinc, and if you are willing to maybe wait a little, see who you're writing with, maybe contact them if you're unsure, then you can make it work - if you want to. That doesn't negate what I wrote above, but if you know that it's a sensitive topic for some and treat it as that, then from my side you can do it. Or you just move it aside for now and maybe implement it in another character later on.

@SingingMosaic

@18th Shard

=============

Moving here, to keep the character thread for submissions. @Ashbringer

Quote

How about this: the effect of Gravitation is reverse-proportional to the Division: the longer it flies, the more Stormlight it spends on staying straight and the less it can actually use on Division. A short-range shot from a building away or so may be enough to make any torso hit a kill without healing, but a long range shot may just make the wound bigger. And it wouldn't be instantaneous either way - Tyrian built it himself using a trapped highspren, so I doubt it works at maximum efficiency.

That sounds like a very good solution. A lot of damage when hit in the torso, but not immediate death. That gives the other person a chance to go on, injured, but still able to do something (depending on their bodily fitness). But yes, I agree it is more an assassination weapon, than something obvious. If we agree on it working like described in your quote above then, the weapon is fine for me and will end up around 45 points.

The part about 'assassination weapon' made me think about it a little more. If it is one, depends on how you use it, I think. If the other person sees you aiming and shooting, then they are warned, and it's more of an straightout attack, than a secret assassination. If he hides (and I honestly can't see him doing that) and fires then, that changes the situation of course.

Quote

And on the oath note, I added the bit about Tyrian stretching the oath because I see him doing it more often than than most. He and his spren don't agree on what "evil" is for the most part. (I also may want to take out that "only" in the oath, as it's following more what his potential 3rd oath would be.) Idk if that changes any points, but just giving my reasoning a bit more clarity.

That's how I understood it and it's why I upped the points I substracted for his oath, indicating that it's harder for him to keep it. Might have been a bit confusing, sorry.

Quote

Tyrian's koloss spike does give him some amount of power, but not very much. Naturally being koloss-blooded he's slightly stronger (and stupider) than most, and his spike enhances that effect. So he'd win an arm wrestling contest against a non-enhanced foe, but he's not going to be throwing cars or any other feats of heroism.

Okay, that case would place the spike at around 10 points. Sorry, I thought your comment meant it was more a cosmetic thing, and they are always possible of course.

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Sorana

[Ashbringer]

I'm leaning towards taking the crossbow out entirely: it's a cool weapon, but now that Tyrian's a bit more fleshed out I agree it doesn't fit his style of either staying out of conflict or hyperaggression. He might get it if he undergoes major changes (swearing an oath making him more stable but less aggressive), but I doubt he'll actually last that long. Maybe Byron will find it somewhere. 

As for the oath and the spike, that's more of what I was thinking of. I might revert the wording of the oath, but either way he does bend it a lot more than most Radiants. The spike IS mainly there as a cosmetic thing, to enact the changes on his skin and personality, but it still gives that strength effect. 10 points seems good.

I'll type up a new sheet for him, minus the assassination things. It makes a bit more sense.

[SingingMosaic]

OK. Thanks guys, this has given me much clearer ideas of Dot's framework. My only question is this, how would we handle the Steelrunning? Or would it just be unneeded since all the bits of him can scurry around rapidly anyway.

I kind of like  the idea of a Sleepless who is a mixture of things, whose particular life experiences have led them so far into and so far out of the lives of other creatures that they could get attached to people, and relate to them, but in ways that would probably subtly unsettle some of said people. I'm not sure if I can pull someone with this many complex nuances off, but I love a challenge.

@Sorana

@18th Shard

[mathiau]

2 hours ago, SingingMosaic said:

OK. Thanks guys, this has given me much clearer ideas of Dot's framework. My only question is this, how would we handle the Steelrunning? Or would it just be unneeded since all the bits of him can scurry around rapidly anyway.

I guess you could use it to throw very fast punches while in human form, also I previous eras we've seen people use stored speed to create bullet times but I'm not sure that'd be possible without compounding.

 

On an other subject, what does the Amberite Bond and Night Bond do? I couldn't find and the wiki and Silas seems like he's gonna use them soon. @bees?

[Ashbringer]

^ I second this question. I don't want Byron just stumbling past a van uselessly, but I also don't want him exploding from Silas vaporising the city block as soon as he gets free.

As for Steelrunning, if it's intended for a getaway function a Sleepless can manage on its own. In combat, if you want Dot to "stick together" while fighting, Steelrunning would be better for moving about quickly. Even a burst of tapped steel can get you past an enemy's defenses. But don't forget, Sleepless are pretty hard to kill on their own; Arclo the Sleepless killed two Skybreakers on his own, although we have no idea how.

[SingingMosaic]

True. So this would leave the mechanics as they currently stand at:

A Sleepless with a flying eye and the ability to sense people, artifabrian and Investiture scholar, with a compact crossbow modified less for sheer damage and more for truer aim, the intent is less to kill and more to put someone out of chasing or attacking him. Them? That's probably just a matter of preference...

Now to chew on weaknesses and backstory. Building a character this way around is interesting for me, generally I do them backstory first, and have no idea what they're called until the end. I've also never modified a character between systems, it is surprisingly fun. Should exercise my rusty squeaky brain more.

[little wheel]

2 hours ago, mathiau said:

I guess you could use it to throw very fast punches while in human form, also I previous eras we've seen people use stored speed to create bullet times but I'm not sure that'd be possible without compounding.

 

On an other subject, what does the Amberite Bond and Night Bond do? I couldn't find and the wiki and Silas seems like he's gonna use them soon. @bees?

so Amberite Aether lets you make stuff out of crystals, like swords and armor (not Shard-level tho, but still Invested) and also you can spread the crystals along the ground and shtuff

and Night makes Amberite stronger and lets you teleport 

it's been a while since I read AoN, probably should refresh my mind

and yeah, there's no wiki entry b/c AoN wasn't actually published

edit: also Night makes the Amberite crystals (I think that they're normally orange) darker (but I can't remember if 'darker' means black or smthn like a dirty orange but I think it's a dirty orange)

Edited May 18, 2020 by bees?

[Ashbringer]

46 minutes ago, SingingMosaic said:

A Sleepless with a flying eye and the ability to sense people, artifabrian and Investiture scholar, with a compact crossbow modified less for sheer damage and more for truer aim, the intent is less to kill and more to put someone out of chasing or attacking him. Them? That's probably just a matter of preference...

I think the Sleepless can just have a Hordeling act as a flying eye, as opposed to an Invested method. Plus you can have multiple and cover a much larger distance. Just make a bunch that look like flies or ants, and they can scout ahead of Dot/the main group largely ignored.

[SingingMosaic]

That would make sense, anyway he could probably make one through his normal means. Seeing as how original Dot often uses it to play pranks on people anyway, and would probably be fine without it, because his eye doesn't do anything mechanical for him in the Numenera system.

[+Sorana]

That sounds good!

I think the steelrunning would add a few more options for you to act, but as mentioned above, you don't really need it for the character to be whole. Maybe you could go with an acrobatics/ parcour skill instead. Can also be very useful in a battle, but with some creativity, you could also do some other things to advance the plot, that make him stand out even more. (just brainstorming here a little, if it doesn't fit your picture of him, then neglect it).

[+Ark1002]

On 5/17/2020 at 6:10 PM, bees? said:

edit: also Night makes the Amberite crystals (I think that they're normally orange) darker (but I can't remember if 'darker' means black or smthn like a dirty orange but I think it's a dirty orange)

they're normally purple/pink

[little wheel]

yeah it calls Amberite "rose" in the beginning of AoN, so somewhere in the red to pink range

Edited May 19, 2020 by bees?

[xinoehp512]

You know something I noticed when I read the updated terms of service... it says you aren't allowed to discuss material from unpublished works. Including Aether of Night. @Voidus, does this mean that roleplaying said material is off-limits, or is it an exception?

[Voidus]

So long as no discussions around the actual plot occur then it's okay.

[SingingMosaic]

Ah Dot probably couldn't be a Steelrunner, I just went to the Sleepless page on the Coppermind and it said that while a hordeling could gain or lose something from hemalurgy, it would disconnect from the rest. Though apparently they can mimic a Larkin's abilities given enough time to specialize? So who knows what they can or can't grow to do over time... Or would that be AV handwavium? I've been everywhere and done strange questionable things and now I can do things? lol

What I'll probably have him do is specialize his hordelings to create a very fast form which can sometimes pour on the speed, at a cost.

So now on to his backstory. Oooo this will be fun.

[Voidus]

26 minutes ago, Darth Woodrack said:

Okay, first things first. Unless the winds are already that high, she wouldn't be able to do anything like that. It's more like, general close range wind, helping her with physical momentum. Basically, this power scales dramatically on circumstance. If she's in a hurricane then she has that power behind her, but if there's barely a breese, then all it could do was speed up her punches and kicks, or correct her knife throw. This is meant to be a minor, but interesting power.

Second. I honestly think you are dramatically underscoring the weaknesses.The Tattered One's rushing into things was 10 points alone, and she has that, which I may have failed to expressly mention, but I would assume it to be clear from her mental condition. Additionally, the inability to use guns should be at least 5 points, as that is what it was when the Jackal had a similar weakness. No, I am not reusing old weaknesses, there is actually a long backstory for the Tattered One which explains trauma and why he cannot use guns. The pomegranate thing is part fractured trauma memories, part the fact that he's just utterly insane, but that doesn't truly matter. What matters is that neither of them can go within ten feet of any pomegranate, or anything made out of pomegranate. This is not a hidden fact, if you have heard of either of these people, you are aware of this. It doesn't even have to be truly pomegranate, you just have to convince that it is. May it be pomegranate juice, pomegranate paste, pure pomegranate, or any form of pomegranate. You could ward them off with a pomegranate seed. Then there's her trauma from her years as a slave, which, while still more hidden, is a significant weakness. It's hidden as in, she doesn't talk about it, and the other Dusk loyalists in the Citadel won't talk about it, but if you actually try to learn anything about them, you would discovert his. Shackles, while not her epic weakness, are an effective way to neutralize her, because she's in fact quite dangerous without her abilities. She will stay out of whip range at all costs, and if she is hit she would suffer similar effects to the shackles. Basically these weaknesses are not 'to circumstantial to be counted for points.' In fact, if these weaknesses can't be counted for points, then you should just say, 'Hey, why have weaknesses at all, let's just entirely base them on how many skill or magic points they have!' I mean, seriously, the weakness, 'Rushing into things,' and similar weaknesses, are being scored correctly to my opinion, but keep in mind that those are based entirely on how the characters are RPd. These are hard, fast, rules that I can't simply forget to rp. If someone played a character that was basically a vampire, would you not subtract points for garlic or sunlight?

As I've mentioned numerous times I very rarely subtract points for Epic weaknesses unless it is extremely common and/or particularly debilitating. The fact that Epics have a weakness and that that weakness may be learned is part of their inherent score. For the same reasons that we don't subtract points for Allomancers because they need to consume metal in order to use their abilities, it's intrinsic to the system.

Being shackled generally means that one is already in dire straits so it's not going to be a particularly relevant character weakness, and I cannot off of the top of my head think of a single time that a whip has been used in the RP. I also tend not to increase points as much for multiple weaknesses because it tends to lead to people coming up with a laundry list of relatively minor weaknesses to get higher than average scores without actually adding much of anything to the character. The specificity of these weaknesses is going to contribute a lot to their scores, things like a fear of pain or being cornered are going to be more highly evaluated than something like whips or shackles specifically.

I'm not going to quibble over a few points here or there, particularly as the character is currently 85 points over the limit which is well beyond what any amount of not absolutely crippling weaknesses can accomplish. If you want to ask a different moderator to review this then feel free and we can discuss it as a mod team but arguing back like this is really not going to get you anywhere.

[Voidus]

12 minutes ago, 18th Shard said:

I mean, in comparison, Xanas's weakness of being literally incapable of being healed by any magic system; elsecalled or transported via Dakhor; use or touch motivators, spikes, medallions, or fabrials; or bond the Shardblade, which he has, was only 20 points negative. And he is not dangerous without his Voidmaking - he can barely use his Blade. 

So while I agree that the weaknesses are significant to the character and definitely do detract from a character's capacities, I don't think the point scale Voidus used is too far out of normal for the RP.

 

4 minutes ago, Sorana said:

It's not. We agreed on some guidelines how to rate weaknesses. A -30 points weakness is really, really crippling for the character. Not just "I can't do that" but, something so fundamental, that they might be hindered to participate in some plot types because of it. But then, please keep in mind, that while we try to keep it fair, we're still only humans, so if you end up comparing every single character sheet you'll find inconsistencies, especially if they were rated by different mods.

(Although looking at it again, -20 for Xanas was a little strict, sorry for that! It really is a significant one.)

 

2 minutes ago, AonEne said:

This is just a side note, but in addition to what’s already been said, how often do you actually encounter a pomegranate IRL, much less in an RP? 

 

1 minute ago, 18th Shard said:

Oh, it doesn't bother me - I got everything I wanted for the character without modifying him at all, so even if the weakness had taken more points off, I would have just made him a stronger Voidmaker, which doesn't really do a whole lot for him as a character.

Moved from main character thread, please remember to keep off hand comments to this thread when possible.

[Darth Woodrack]

1 hour ago, Voidus said:

As I've mentioned numerous times I very rarely subtract points for Epic weaknesses unless it is extremely common and/or particularly debilitating. The fact that Epics have a weakness and that that weakness may be learned is part of their inherent score. For the same reasons that we don't subtract points for Allomancers because they need to consume metal in order to use their abilities, it's intrinsic to the system.

Being shackled generally means that one is already in dire straits so it's not going to be a particularly relevant character weakness, and I cannot off of the top of my head think of a single time that a whip has been used in the RP. I also tend not to increase points as much for multiple weaknesses because it tends to lead to people coming up with a laundry list of relatively minor weaknesses to get higher than average scores without actually adding much of anything to the character. The specificity of these weaknesses is going to contribute a lot to their scores, things like a fear of pain or being cornered are going to be more highly evaluated than something like whips or shackles specifically.

I'm not going to quibble over a few points here or there, particularly as the character is currently 85 points over the limit which is well beyond what any amount of not absolutely crippling weaknesses can accomplish. If you want to ask a different moderator to review this then feel free and we can discuss it as a mod team but arguing back like this is really not going to get you anywhere.

I honestly didn’t think this would need to go anywhere and thought that you just weren’t thinking through the actual weaknesses. I intended these to be major limiting weaknesses. Like, I actually wasn’t piling up a ton of weaknesses that don’t make sense, these weaknesses are actually part of the her character. I mean, yes the Tattered One being scared of pomegranates was half for points and half utterly hilarious, but her sharing the weakness was part of her actual character design. Honestly, if I was scoring these I would but them within point range. If I need to, I could remove the scholarship skill, that was purely for flavor anyway, but I would really like you to bring it up to the moderator staff to see if they agree with me or not. If they don’t then I’d like to put it up for OP character review and vote. Thanks.

[Voidus]

I'd need a very substantial weakness before I agreed to take 85 points off of a character, like a vampire that will burst into flame if it touches sunlight and inescapably dies I might put as high as 75 points. I don't see anything here that would approach that level of commonality or lethality.
But as always happy to be disagreed with if @Sorana or @I think I am here. think it's deserving of a different rating.

[+Sorana]

5 hours ago, Darth Woodrack said:

but I would really like you to bring it up to the moderator staff to see if they agree with me or not. If they don’t then I’d like to put it up for OP character review and vote. Thanks.

Hey Darth,

I personally agree with Voidus. Actually looking over your character sheet, my rating of his weaknesses would even have been a tad lower. As I tried to explain before, we do try to vote on weaknesses as similar as possible and discussed some guidelines and some base directions to keep us oriented.

If you want to submit the character as an OP character, you are welcome to do so. In that case I'd like to ask you to fill out the OP character sheet, so that we can put it up for discussion and then voting.

[AonEne]

(Just a question, @Darth Woodrack do you also plan on having Dusk be an OP character?) 

[Darth Woodrack]

No, he's noncombative, and unless that rule was changed in my absence, that means that he's good. 

[AonEne]

11 minutes ago, Darth Woodrack said:

No, he's noncombative, and unless that rule was changed in my absence, that means that he's good. 

I thought you still had to get approval for them? They’re more likely to be approved that way, but still have to be? I could definitely be wrong here.