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Book 4 Predictions

118 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Sedside said:

I think, Adolin will join Odium, he is a perfect candidate for that. I think, he would get punished for Sadeas' murder and, as he doesn't regret what he did, he would be blaming others for this, just like Moash was. "It's not my fault". Later on Odium would contact him and reveal him the truth about his father, so Adolin's journey to the Dark Side would be complete. Not sure, tho, it would all happen in SA4. 

 

1 hour ago, CrazyRioter said:

Dalinar's going to reveal the truth about what happened himself. Which will definitely affect Adolin and Dalinar's relationship but I don't think will drive him to Odium outright.

And I think Adolin would accept punishment, he doesn't regret what he did exactly but he knows it was extrelegal, and I think he would consider being punished a fair trade off for Sadeas being dead.

I’m with @CrazyRioter on this one. Adolin doesn’t regret killing Sadeas, but he definitely doesn’t blame others for him doing it. He accepts responsibility for it. (And I don’t think not outright saying he did it from the beginning is not accepting responsibility.) Also, yes, Adolin will learn the truth about his mother from Dalinar, not Odium. It may change their relationship, but I actually don’t think it will strain it any more than Adolin killing Sadeas did. And Dalinar literally says something along the lines of “Adolin was not the man he thought he was, but he could forgive him that.” And is generally understanding after thinking over Adolin’s actions. Maybe Adolin struggles more with what Dalinar did at Rathalas, but while Dalinar technically was the one who killed Evi, he didn’t do it to her specifically on purpose. He was driven by the Thrill and Alethi culture to do what he did there. Although I wonder how much Adolin really knew of who the Blackthorn was. He was constantly talking about wanting to see his father release the Blackthorn during WoK, but maybe he didn’t understand how bloodthirsty Dalinar really was and will be shocked at that revelation. (Kind of like I was on first reading Dalinar’s flashbacks in OB, though I have come to appreciate them more through time and re-reads.)

On another more now:

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

Szeth: teacher of Surges. 

Definitely this. But even more than just teaching surges will be teaching how to counter surges like he did to get the King’s Drop from the Fused. 

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Yeah, I think Adolin views his father's past through rose-coloured glasses, as many children do with their parents. He will have a bit of a rude awakening when the full details come to light, but I think it will ultimately be good for him to have a more realistic view of his father. His current tendency to idolize him is not exactly healthy.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, CrazyRioter said:

Yeah, I think Adolin views his father's past through rose-coloured glasses, as many children do with their parents. He will have a bit of a rude awakening when the full details come to light, but I think it will ultimately be good for him to have a more realistic view of his father. His current tendency to idolize him is not exactly healthy.

It's not just Adolin. It's everyone. Dalinar comments on it himself. 

Quote

The more he recovered of what he had lost, the more he realized that the memories of men were flawed. He’d mention an event now fresh to his mind, and others who had lived it would argue over details, as each recalled it differently. Most, Navani included, seemed to remember him as more noble than he deserved. Yet he didn’t ascribe any magic to this. It was simply the way of human beings, subtly changing the past in their minds to match their current beliefs.

Adolin has grown with stories of everyone else having romanticized Dalinar's past... Which will do two things in my opinion. 

First, it's going to make it far more disturbing to everyone. Not just Adolin. 

Second, it will make people tell themselves, and Adolin, that Dalinar is being unfair with himself, and remembers things overly harshly because of what happened to Evi. 

They're going to try and justify it, because people don't want to believe that the man they know, and some love, could have been that monster. 

It's what people do. 

Edited by Calderis
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22 hours ago, CrazyRioter said:

Not useless, very useful. Just not for combat purposes. Nothing wrong with that.

It will be very "useful" when someone kills Dalinar in a combat.

 

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Posted (edited)

35 minutes ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

It will be very "useful" when someone kills Dalinar in a combat.

Dalinar can survive landslides and marching in front of an army alone with nothing but a book. 

I'd really like to see someone try and take him out. I don't see it ending well for them.

Edit: an army of legendary enemies, magic wielding monsters, a destructive magical storm, and their neigh unstoppable god. 

Edited by Calderis
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1 hour ago, Calderis said:

I'd really like to see someone try and take him out. I don't see it ending well for them.

Odium...Dalinar's nemesis is Odium. Like...other characters fight supernatural enemies and monsters, but they're still...more "down to earth". If it makes sense. Kaladin vs Moash, Szeth vs Nale (maybe), Shallan vs Unmade (that run away in fear after Shallan touched it...). But Dalinar has Odium. Evil God that kills other Gods wants Dalinar's death.

And all other characters are pretty overpowered. Yes, they fight Fused, but they can fly, they have magic swords and power armor. Dalinar has nothing against the Fused and nothing against Odium. He's an insect compared to Odium. Immortal God vs human. Dalinar doesn't even stand a chance. 

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, CrazyRioter said:

And I think Adolin would accept punishment, he doesn't regret what he did exactly but he knows it was extrelegal, and I think he would consider being punished a fair trade off for Sadeas being dead.

I agree, he will.

And then he will think about how hypocritical it is, that Dalinar, who has done worse things, is the one to mete out punishment. Which are exactly the kind of thoughts, that can fuel his temperament and drive him away from Dalinar, since he's no Radiant either, which also nags him.

And who is there that has shown to exploit such situations, where people felt alienated? Who needs a champion? Who is personally angry at Dalinar for defying him, so who better to make his champion than Dalinar's firstborn son? Odium is.

I think it's one possibility.

Edited by SLNC
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18 minutes ago, SLNC said:

since he's no Radiant either, which also nags him.

This nags at him? He seems to roll with it pretty well. 

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28 minutes ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

Dalinar doesn't even stand a chance. 

Funny that you would say that with a name derived from Mistborn, where we saw this exact scenario (human vs Immortal) play out. That's not to say I don't think Dalinar would stand a chance as he is now, but I do think he will eventually, in some capacity, best Odium. Even if he dies in the process. Dalinar seems like the kind of person that would be perfectly willing to take Rayse down off of his Odium pedestal by way of MAD.

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Posted (edited)

All right, let me sum it up for you, comrades. Adolin will be just fine. He will revive Maya and be a KR, his marriage will be happy and shining, his murder of Sadeas will cause no ramifications, his lack of responsibility, inability to hold his temper, and all his previous relationship problems will just magically disappear.

This is going to be a very interesting read. And the moral of this tale will be "manage to be born a handsome rich prince, and everything will drop to you on its own; murder everyone you don't like, and as far as you feel no remorse you will be fine".

Maybe Adolin will get bored of Shallan and murder her too? She is difficult and confusing to read anyway, and she prevents Adolin from having fun with much more interesting characters like May Aladar.

Edited by Sedside
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7 hours ago, Invocation said:

Funny that you would say that with a name derived from Mistborn, where we saw this exact scenario (human vs Immortal) play out. That's not to say I don't think Dalinar would stand a chance as he is now, but I do think he will eventually, in some capacity, best Odium. Even if he dies in the process. Dalinar seems like the kind of person that would be perfectly willing to take Rayse down off of his Odium pedestal by way of MAD.

But Mistborn demonstrated it clearly: mortals can't defeat Gods. Only God can defeat another God. Preservations vs Ruin. NOT Vin vs Ruin. 

Without Ascending to a Godhood they aren't able to kill or even hurt Odium. They need another Shard, another God.

"die in the process" is key words. I don't want it to happen. I'd absolutely hate if it were to happen (and it likely will). Besides,

Spoiler

if Dalinar Ascends to Honor, kill Odium and die in the process, someone else will need to take Honor's Shard (as Shard can stay without a human vessel). And this is the exact copy of Mistborn ending. Hence, not very good writing.

 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Sedside said:

And the moral of this tale will be "manage to be born a handsome rich prince, and everything will drop to you on its own"

I'd say that there're already many, many problems with moral aspects in those books (for me)...

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4 minutes ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

But Mistborn demonstrated it clearly: mortals can't defeat Gods. Only God can defeat another God. Preservations vs Ruin. NOT Vin vs Ruin. 

Without Ascending to a Godhood they aren't able to kill or even hurt Odium. They need another Shard, another God.

"die in the process" is key words. I don't want it to happen. I'd absolutely hate if it were to happen (and it likely will). Besides,

  Reveal hidden contents

if Dalinar Ascends to Honor, kill Odium and die in the process, someone else will need to take Honor's Shard (as Shard can stay without a human vessel). And this is the exact copy of Mistborn ending. Hence, not very good writing.

 

I would somewhat agree with you, except for the fact that it was more the human portion of that conflict that allowed it to go to completion. Also, the circumstances here allow for a mortal to beat Odium within the agreement set forth; the contest of champions.

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21 minutes ago, Invocation said:

I would somewhat agree with you, except for the fact that it was more the human portion of that conflict that allowed it to go to completion. Also, the circumstances here allow for a mortal to beat Odium within the agreement set forth; the contest of champions.

Yes, Mistborn books were all about humans...but in the end Ascension to Godhood was the only possible solution. You just can't fight with God and stay a human.

I think, contest of champions won't solve the problem with Odium. It's a temporal solution that will give them some extra time, but it won't destroy Odium. And as long as Odium lives, no one is safe. I think, to solve the problem they must kill Odium. Kill it's Vessel and take a Shard, or merge it with another Shard, or splinter it, so no one could take it. Whatever. But in all those cases they need another Shard, most likely Honor.

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Just now, LerasiumMistborn said:

Yes, Mistborn books were all about humans...but in the end Ascension to Godhood was the only possible solution. You just can't fight with God and stay a human.

I think, contest of champions won't solve the problem with Odium. It's a temporal solution that will give them some extra time, but it won't destroy Odium. And as long as Odium lives, no one is safe. I think, to solve the problem they must kill Odium. Kill it's Vessel and take a Shard, or merge it with another Shard, or splinter it, so no one could take it. Whatever. But in all those cases they need another Shard, most likely Honor.

Theoretically, yes, you would need the help of another Shard, but I don't think you necessarily need to have Odium taken up by someone else after killing Rayse if you had a big enough gemstone.

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21 hours ago, Invocation said:

Theoretically, yes, you would need the help of another Shard, but I don't think you necessarily need to have Odium taken up by someone else after killing Rayse if you had a big enough gemstone.

Hmm...this is a very interesting theory. Though I can't imagine such a powerful gemstone (to trap entire Shard power in it). 

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4 hours ago, Calderis said:

This nags at him? He seems to roll with it pretty well. 

I'm not gonna search for every little sign of annoyance or jealousy, but I'm pretty sure, that we all remember the culmination of it with him telling Pattern about how he should be able to compete with Kaladin on the ship in Shadesmar, when he does Radiant things again.

Then again, this is only my read and as everything, that concerns Adolin, it will probably get downplayed again.

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I'm pretty sure Spiritual Adhesion is going to be brutally OP. Like I said elsewhere, a theory I have is that it can be used to pull C-Shadows like the Fused out of bodies and place them elsewhere

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, SLNC said:

I'm not gonna search for every little sign of annoyance or jealousy, but I'm pretty sure, that we all remember the culmination of it with him telling Pattern about how he should be able to compete with Kaladin on the ship in Shadesmar, when he does Radiant things again.

Then again, this is only my read and as everything, that concerns Adolin, it will probably get downplayed again.

You're right it does bother him. He's very insecure about it. His wife, his brother, his father all are radiant and he's not. He used to be the great fighter and now everyone else is more powerful. 

8 hours ago, Calderis said:

Dalinar can survive landslides and marching in front of an army alone with nothing but a book. 

I'd really like to see someone try and take him out. I don't see it ending well for them.

Edit: an army of legendary enemies, magic wielding monsters, a destructive magical storm, and their neigh unstoppable god. 

I was very worried he'd die in Oathbringer, but now I'd be surprised if he died before the end of book 5. He's very hard to kill, but the army just ignored him because Odium wanted to make him champion. 

Would be helpful if he gets plate, which is a matter of debate. 

Edited by Child of Hodor
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Posted (edited)

36 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

He's very insecure about it.

Perhaps insecure about his new position on the social ladder, as we all know, he's quite vain, but in regards to not having the power? That is definitely jealousy born from vanity.

Edited by SLNC
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5 hours ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

He's an insect compared to Odium. Immortal God vs human. Dalinar doesn't even stand a chance.

I don't want to get into this fully, but as others have mentioned, your username belies evidence to oppose your fears. Also, Dalinar's actions at the end of OB kinda say otherwise. 

5 hours ago, Sedside said:

He will revive Maya

Probably. But is this really a problem? We've seen normal Radiants, we've seen unique Radiants. This would fall in the latter category. Or another way of looking at it is that this is Brandon's shortcut to letting many people revive blades that we already know are around...or...well, I'll save the last theory for a tinfoil one ;)

5 hours ago, Sedside said:

be a KR

I don't think he'll ever be a "true" Radiant, but he could be an atypical one like Renarin and Lift.

5 hours ago, Sedside said:

his marriage will be happy and shining

I think Sanderson plans to explore the problems that occur within marriage here. Sanderson's expressed annoyance with the idea that character (mostly superheroes but characters in general) never get married until the end, and if there's more they never stay married because the writers didn't know how to show the couple overcoming obstacles together. So if I was a betting man, I'd bet that this is the next challenge Adolin will have.

5 hours ago, Sedside said:

his murder of Sadeas will cause no ramifications

I'm sure it will, but this arc is a slow-burn, paced out over 4-5 books. This arc didn't start at the murder of Sadeas - it started when Sadeas betrayed Dalinar. And it probably won't end until Book 5. So we might not have seen consequences yet, and they might not be the "dark torturous brooding" ones people thought they'd be before OB, but they will come.

5 hours ago, Sedside said:

his lack of responsibility

Fair point, a growing area for Adolin.

5 hours ago, Sedside said:

inability to hold his temper

I can only remember two instances where Adolin actually lost his temper: the first when yelling at Dalinar about his visions in public (anger born out of worry). The second his murder of Sadeas (which wasn't exactly unprovoked, give Sadeas had tried to murder them, betrayed them, gotten thousands of their men killed, attempted to undermine and humiliate them, and admitted to Adoline he'd do it again, and again, and again). 

Maybe you count his talks with Ialai, but again, not entirely sure.

5 hours ago, Sedside said:

and all his previous relationship problems will just magically disappear.

I mean, do you bring all the unnecessary baggage of your previous relations into your next one? Do you bring your ex's into your marriage? Why they're all ex's is something that pretty much everyone in-universe understands, but given everyone's reactions, it's not some horrendous thing (aside from cheating, which is, and Adolin is probably guilty of due to forgetfulness). 

And I get it, your points are sarcastic. You don't like Adolin. But Adolin isn't the most heinous character in the books, nor is he perfect. He's rich, a little entitled (however due to major societal shifts that's changing), but a genuinely good guy. Not perfect, but definitely not a Mary Sue/Gary Stu. 

 

Other Book 4 predictions...Rysn will show up somewhere interesting, we might finally see a Stone Shaman, maybe a skirmish between Bridge 4/Windrunners and the Skybreakers?

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45 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

You're right it does bother him. He's very insecure about it. His wife, his brother, his father all are radiant and he's not. He used to be the great fighter and now everyone else is more powerful. 

He is insecure about his ability to fight the things that are coming... And he's right to be. That's not the same thing as being jealous of the Radiants or it weighing on him heavily. 

Everything about the sword training with Shallan shows the he's excited for her. I can't think of any instance of his thoughts on Dalinar's Radiant status at all... The only place there's any hint of jealousy is towards Kaladin and that's only because of Shallan. 

I think extending that jealousy/insecurity to Radiants, or that being the cause, is a conflation. 

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Posted (edited)

19 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Everything about the sword training with Shallan shows the he's excited for her.

He's excited to spar with her, because its literally the only thing they can do together as a couple. They have nothing else in common as seen on previous occasions. I don't really see how anyone can talk about "being excited for her", when he pushes her to train for himself. I'm not arguing the necessity for Shallan to train with Shardblades, by the way, just who Adolin really is doing this for.

19 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I think extending that jealousy/insecurity to Radiants, or that being the cause, is a conflation. 

Which is not what I'm doing. I'm saying, that the cause is his vanity, not fear, and it thus not being "insecurity", but jealousy. You can call that conflation, but I'd rather conflate, than conveniently forget a part of his characterization.

Edited by SLNC
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I expect book 4 to be like book 3, where just about every question/theory we had was answered and a whole host of new ones presented.  (Things like the Recreance and Odium's champion were largely speculated to be book 5/climax things, and Brandon threw everything in OB instead.)

With that in mind:

Shallan:  Everything Ghostbloods.  I think the Ghostbloods will do something truly horrid this book, but also something truly great.  Shallan will be at the middle of all it, and readers will be vastly conflicted regarding the Ghostbloods.  Almost all Ghostblood secrets will be revealed.

 

Kaladin, Venli, Moash:  I'm lumping these together because I feel like their story lines are going to intersect.  At the end of OB, Moash (Vyre, whatever,) seems to be picking up his own parsh following, including one of Kaladin's former parsh friends.  Even though Moash is seemingly going to become Team Odium's Herald Slayer, I think Moash is going to continue his 'yeah Team Dalinar sucks but so does Team Odium' talking points to any parsh who will listen.  This will result in a mini-arc for him somewhat resembling Kaladin and Bridge 4 in WoK.

At the same time Venli is going to begin the process of breaking some parsh away from Odium, but will have to compete with the Fused and Team Moash for their minds and time.

Kaladin's mainly here because of the Moash/friend parsh connection, and this continues his arc from OB where he couldn't act because his friends were killing each other.  This will tie in to helping Venli.  As a Windrunner and very anti-Moash, Kaladin will probably also be at the forefront of the 'save the Heralds from Moash' bandwagon.

 

Dalinar and Navani:  I think the viewpoint will primarily be Navani, as Brandon has said less Dalinar in book 4.  A lot will be Navani reflecting on the 'new' Dalinar.  Politics and inventions, mostly.  This will be the one area where there will be unanswered questions, as the extent of Dalinar's powers and the whole 'Unity' thing will be for book 5.

 

Adolin:  He will continue being awesome, have a mostly happy marriage, and continue to try and figure out how to fit in in a world full of 'superheroes.'  He'll figure something out by the end.  I hate to say this, but I think there will be a major death in book 4, and Adolin is one of the heavy favorites to be that death.  (As much as I do not want to see that.)

 

Renarin and Jasnah:  Will remain background(ish) characters who will play important roles but we won't see inside their head.

 

Lift: Will continue being one of the best characters ever.  Will be adopted by Rock.  Kaladin will groan.

 

Szeth:  No idea.  If Dalinar is less of a focus this book, and Szeth is adamant about guarding him, Szeth might not have much to do.  But with Dalinar's new powers, he may convince Szeth his need for bodyguards is significantly less.  So let's say Dalinar sends Szeth off with Kaladin.  Because Kaladin, Syl, Szeth and Nightblood sounds like a fantastic road trip group.

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Posted (edited)

@SLNC Considering all of the references to the time that they spend together, sparring and otherwise, I think that's a gross oversimplification.

I don't believe that I'm "forgetting" anything about the characterization. What you call me downplaying aspects, I see you misinterpreting and overstating. 

This will never be resolved until the books make it clear, so how about we just ignore each other until that point. 

Edited by Calderis
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I'm not looking for resolution, I'm just stating my opinion. I won't stop doing that. And frankly, you initiated by asking me.

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