The Night Watcher

Do we know anything about why Vivenna went to Roshar?

33 posts in this topic

I read Warbreaker, but it seems a lot of time has passed since then. Vivenna is a very different person (the obvious part being that she can fight hecka good). Do we have any information on why?

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She's hunting Vasher (Zahel, the grumpy ardent we met in Words of Radiance is Vasher!) and Nightblood (who is with Szeth obviously).

I don't know for sure but I believe it's been several hundred years since the events of Warbreaker. It indeed seems like Vivenna has become quite the Awakener. :)

There will one day be a sequel to Warbreaker (called Nightblood) which will bridge part of the gap between Warbreaker and Stormlight.

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My theory from what she says in OB part 4 is that she's been tasked by one of the like... fifteen worldhopping conspiracy groups to go and hunt down Vasher and Nightblood for unknown reasons.

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Posted (edited)

If I remember right, and who knows, maybe I'm pulling this from nowhere, but...

It is my understanding that she traveled there with Vasher, who went there so he could use stormlight as substitute investiture to keep living without worrying about the number of breaths he has. I have no idea how they split up, how long they've been apart, or how they lost Nightblood, but that's where I'm at. 

Edited by Mailnaise
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It's been awhile since I've read Oathbringer (so maybe I need to start a re-read :)), but I'm remembering the suspicion that while Vivenna is "looking" for Vasher, she isn't really hunting him (not seriously). I think my main reason for thinking this is the fact that she knows Kaladin and Adolin were both taught by Vasher, but she doesn't follow up on any questions for with them.

I think she's primarily there for Nightblood, and Vasher seems to be an afterthought. It's possible she's been tasked with hunting Vasher down by someone, but that she's avoiding it for personal reasons (e.g. whoever tasked her thinks that Vasher is responsible for taking Nightblood, but maybe Vivenna knows he didn't).

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And the award for least helpful WOB goes to:

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Was Azure hunting the Herald or is she hunting Zahel?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

She's <not?> hunting Zahel.

Orem signing (Dec. 21, 2017)

 

 
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22 minutes ago, Quantus said:

And the award for least helpful WOB goes to:

 

Right? Thanks, WOB! In OB, she first mentions the weapon (Nightblood), but then also the "one who brought it to your land". I would imagine this to be Zahel, as I doubt a Herald could have left the Rosharian system given that they're cognitive shadows bound to the system (thought I could be wrong on that). She's prioritized her hunt though--weapon first. She probably figures that it's still with Zahel, so following the reports fo the strange sword would be easier than pinpointing a particular, nondescript man. Even one who trained princes. 

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5 minutes ago, Bliev said:

Right? Thanks, WOB! In OB, she first mentions the weapon (Nightblood), but then also the "one who brought it to your land". I would imagine this to be Zahel, as I doubt a Herald could have left the Rosharian system given that they're cognitive shadows bound to the system (thought I could be wrong on that). She's prioritized her hunt though--weapon first. She probably figures that it's still with Zahel, so following the reports fo the strange sword would be easier than pinpointing a particular, nondescript man. Even one who trained princes. 

Personally I dont think she is directly hunting Vasher, or else she would have stuck with Adoline and Kal.  I think she clearly figured out that Vasher had trained them both, and the difference in their familiarity with the training kata would indicate that he's stuck around long enough to train two different pupils at different times.  So she now knows Vasher is a swordmaster in the Kholin orbit. 

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16 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Personally I dont think she is directly hunting Vasher, or else she would have stuck with Adoline and Kal.  I think she clearly figured out that Vasher had trained them both, and the difference in their familiarity with the training kata would indicate that he's stuck around long enough to train two different pupils at different times.  So she now knows Vasher is a swordmaster in the Kholin orbit. 

Yes, true. But she also knows that Kal and Adolin aren't headed to the Shattered plains and they're fleeing Kholinar, so they'd probably be little help to bring her back to Vasher if that's where she was headed anyways. My guess is that Nightblood is bounty #1, and Zahel would just be a bonus. If i had to guess, she'd probably rather avoid confronting Vasher if she could and just go after NB...but I'm not sure she knows that they aren't together anymore. Any WOBs about that? I can't find them.

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Posted (edited)

The phrasing “and the one who brought it to your land” to me has always seemed a misdirect. 

I don’t think she’s after Vasher at all because I think his separation from Nightblood happened well before Nightblood was brought to Roshar (personal theory, no proof). 

What I can’t wait for in book 4 is Szeth with Nightblood coming near or into contact with Zahael in the Kholin camp/orbit whatever. God I hope we get that next book....

Edited by Green Hoodie Mistborn
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Interesting  stuff! But why is she going after Nightblood at all? I know the sword's dangerously obsessed with [DESROY!] evil, but why is Vivenna specifically going after him?

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10 minutes ago, The Night Watcher said:

Interesting  stuff! But why is she going after Nightblood at all? I know the sword's dangerously obsessed with [DESROY!] evil, but why is Vivenna specifically going after him?

There's all kinds of reasons it could.  I personally think that Yesteel was somehow able to divide Vasher and Vivenna.  Vasher left Nalthis with Nightblood and Vivenna stayed to clean something up.  Or something happened in the Cognative Realm and they got separated. However it happened, Vivenna now feels responsible for Nightblood and any destruction he causes.

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8 hours ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

The phrasing “and the one who brought it to your land” to me has always seemed a misdirect. 

 

I thought the same thing when I recently reread OB.If she was hunting Vasher I assume she would have went with the group figuring they could take her to him.

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Logically, given Vivenna's actions in OB, it appears she's after Nightblood and Vasher, but Nightblood is her priority. She knows for a fact that Kaladin and Adolin and even Shallan have seen Vasher and spent enough time with him to learn his katas. But she doesn't interrogate them at all. However, she abandons them right away when she's given word of a sword that bleeds black smoke in the Honorspren city. She also warns Kaladin and Adolin to let Vasher know that she is coming for him.

So Nightblood first, then Vasher.

Ironically, if she had gone with the gang, she would have found both pretty quickly...

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Posted (edited)

As @Lidolassaid and it seems plausible, Yesteel spilled history to her and she got pissed. Could also be Yesteel showed her how to make her sword and the quarreled about that as Vasher killed Shashara for that reason if I remember correctly. We need the book Nightblood as there's probably not enough info through flashbacks and stuff to solve what she's doing. It would also be interesting to see the evolution from shrinking violet to Xena warrior princess which makes me think she might've gotten off Nalthis for health reasons as she has blood claim to two thrones. She's the rightful heir to one and aunt to another. Having spare heirs around might be hazardous.

Edited by Angsos
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19 hours ago, Shardbearer said:

I thought the same thing when I recently reread OB.If she was hunting Vasher I assume she would have went with the group figuring they could take her to him.

There is also the point that the Nightwatcher offered Dalinar a weapon that sounded like Nightblood. So we might speculate that Nightblood and Vasher did not go to Roshar entirely voluntarily. Whom would Cultivation hire to abduct a Returned and steal a superweapon?

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Eh. We know why Vasher is on Roshar. 

Quote

Questioner

So we already know that Vasher was Kaladin's trainer with a Shardblade, 'cause you told me that last time I asked you. So does Vasher just have a large mass of Biochromatic Breaths and that's how he's surviving, or is he somehow feeding off Stormlight while he is there?

Brandon Sanderson

He is feeding off of Stormlight, which is the primary reason why he came to Roshar. Investiture is easy to access in plentiful amounts.

Questioner

How did he know how to use Shardblades so well when he got there, is that related to how they created Nightblood

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, he has experience with Roshar from hundreds of years ago.

White Sand vol.1 Orem signing (June 29, 2016)

 

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1 hour ago, Calderis said:

Eh. We know why Vasher is on Roshar.

The cooperation of the abductee, unless previously known, does preclude an attempt to abduct him. Nor does it tell us that Vasher would have been free to leave Nalthis. In fact a bounty hunter sent after him suggests the opposite.

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3 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

The cooperation of the abductee, unless previously known, does preclude an attempt to abduct him. Nor does it tell us that Vasher would have been free to leave Nalthis. In fact a bounty hunter sent after him suggests the opposite.

Huh?

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Could Vivenna's sword possibly destroy nightblood? Do we know enough about how it works? If so, that could be a possible reason to come after it...

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3 minutes ago, GiveMeASpren(I'mCrazy) said:

Could Vivenna's sword possibly destroy nightblood? Do we know enough about how it works? If so, that could be a possible reason to come after it...

I doubt it. Vivienna's sword is significantly newer than Nightblood, and Nightblood has been steadily gaining strength and Investiture and is powered by a very destructive Command, coupled with a chunk of Ruin's Investiture.

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6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

There is also the point that the Nightwatcher offered Dalinar a weapon that sounded like Nightblood. So we might speculate that Nightblood and Vasher did not go to Roshar entirely voluntarily. Whom would Cultivation hire to abduct a Returned and steal a superweapon?

Or Cultivation was just aware that this superweapon was on her planet.  

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15 hours ago, RShara said:

Huh?

That Vasher was happy to go to Roshar does not allow us to conclude that Cultivation's agents wouldn't have taken him by force anyway

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1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

That Vasher was happy to go to Roshar does not allow us to conclude that Cultivation's agents wouldn't have taken him by force anyway

We have absolutely nothing saying that his journey was in any way involuntary. We have another WoB (which unfortunately I can't find at the moment) that says that Taldain would have been a good choice for him due to the ease of getting Investiture. And we have multiple saying he made the choice to go there. 

Quote

Questioner

With Warbreaker and Stormlight Archive, Vasher and Zahel. *inaudible*

Brandon Sanderson

He went to Roshar because he knew ahead of time, that you could get Stormlight, and how easy it was. So he made his way there because he was tired of sucking peoples' souls to stay alive.

Questioner

How did he know?

Brandon Sanderson

He, as part of a group of scholars, stumbled upon the nature of worldhopping long ago.

Questioner

Could he the same group of scholars as Jasnah?

Brandon Sanderson

No, it's a group of scholars on Nalthis who were studying magic, Investiture, and stumbled upon the means by which you transition into the Cognitive Realm. So, he actually had experience with Shardbldes before, and that was part of how he built... well, he was part of it, but really...

Questioner

So, is Nightblood kind of like a Shardblade? Is a Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood is an attempt to make a Shardblade using a different magic. And it turned out poorly.

Questioner

Speaking of Nightblood, how did that transition from Nalthis?

Brandon Sanderson

I have not answered that yet. Eventually, you will find out how they ended up on Roshar.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

Additionally, Vasher is just living a solitary life with no minders. If he wanted to leave he could. 

Someone being sent after him (and more likely after the the insanely destructive sword he took with him) is not in itself evidence that he isn't allowed leave. Bounties can be placed for many reasons. 

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On 3/1/2019 at 10:01 AM, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

The phrasing “and the one who brought it to your land” to me has always seemed a misdirect. 

I don’t think she’s after Vasher at all because I think his separation from Nightblood happened well before Nightblood was brought to Roshar (personal theory, no proof).

We have wob to the contrary.

Quote

AllomancerSam

Were Vasher and Nightblood separated before going to Roshar, or after?

Brandon Sanderson

After.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

Of course, someone else could've "brought" both Vasher and Nightblood to Roshar at the same time, and that wouldn't necessarily contradict anything. But that seems wrong to me. Vasher has lived for hundreds of years. He knows how to worldhop and wouldn't really need help. He probably wouldn't let Nightblood tag along if he weren't actually bringing him himself.

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