How do you think first half of SA will end?

[Gasper]

6 hours ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

Kaladin will forgive himself, learn how to be happy, find himself a girlfriend, and get a happy ending.

Shallan will forgive herself, overcome all inner struggles and get a happy ending.

Adolin will revive the sword, become an Edgedancer, and get a happy ending.

Adolin and Shallan will have 10 children with rainbow hair color.

Szeth will kill that evil Herald, and become a leader of Skybreakers instead of him. He will learn how to make own decisions and how to be free. He will get a happy ending.

Venli will reject Odium and lead Listeners against him. She will be their new leader once the war will be over. She will get a happy ending.

Taln will be sane again. He will get a happy ending.

Renarin will find the strength, become a full Radiant, save his spren from Odium's corruption, and get a happy ending.

Odium will be destroyed. Big victory and happy ending for everyone.

Humans and Listeners will become allies. All of them, and spren, will live together in Urithiru like a giant family, dance and sing happy songs.

Dalinar will die and be forgotten just like all dead characters in Sanderson's books are forgotten by everyone on the next page after their deaths.

 

All cosmere spoilers:

 

Spoiler

This may not be Game of Thrones, but Sanderson has a habit of killing main characters. Elend, Vin, Kelsier, Lightsong, Harathen, just to name a few. Some one is going to die by the 4th or 5th book, some one important.

 

[ReaderAt2046]

My guess is that the front five is going to end with Eshonai rising to leadership of the singers, breaking free of Odium's control, and negotiating a truce with the humans to end the war. The Fused will still exist, but will soon run out of singers willing to offer themselves as hosts and so will be driven back into the storm.

The Back five will be kicked off with an invasion of human Voidbinders from Ashyn, the descendants of the ones who didn't flee the initial catastrophe all those aeons ago.

[Toaster Retribution]

2 hours ago, RShara said:

Since at least two of them are already false by WoB, I'm not concerned

Haha, fair enough.

[Inky]

Genuine (but probably very very wrong) Predictions for End of Book 5

- Dalinar goes fifth oath and uses both of his surges Spiritually in unison to throw a ball of Fused at Szeth, who sacrifices himself by Nightblooding the Fused 

- Kaladin and Moash have a heart-wrenching feels battle where one or two of them may or may not die

- Taln(and maybe Ash) confront Nale or Ishar

[Lord Mistborn Bondbreaker]

6 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Dalinar refused. That is why I think it isn’t over. And Honor hasn’t picked a Champion yet.

Dalinar Excepted; also, Honor picked Dalinar by making him a bondsmith.

Quote

A pair of glory spren swung down from the sky, golden spheres. They floated and spun around Dalinar, brilliant like drops of sunlight. “Yes,” Dalinar said. “This is what I wish.” “You wish a contest of champions?” Odium Repeated. “This is your true desire, not forced upon you? You are not beguiled or tricked in any way?” “A contest of champions, for the fate of Roshar.”

”Very well”, Odium said, “I agree.”

 

 

[Calderis]

Team Honor made no choice. Dalinar was chosen as Odium's champion and refused the position after Odium had agreed. 

This is why Odium now has to avoid Dalinar. He agreed to the battle, and is bound to that agreement, but there are no valid champions. 

In the event that they meet again, Dalinar can hold him to that agreement and "force him to fight" at which point champions must be appointed. 

It's not over. If it were, Odium would have had no need to agree to Taravangian's proposal. 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Calderis

[+ILuvHats]

This one’s crazy, but it’s been a pet theory of mine ever since I cooked it up. I never shared it because it’s pure insanity, though strangely enough I originally believed it was legitimate for Agee seconds until I thought through it more thoroughly. 

Rayse isn’t Odium’s vessel, at least currently. He gave it up prior to the expulsion from Ashyn to someone who he knew would serve his interests, and hid the exchange from people who actually knew him, which is why Hoid still believes he is Odium’s vessel. And then, Rayse infiltrated Honor’s own chosen heroes. That’s right, Rayse is a herald. Or to be more specific, Taln. That’s how he was able to kill Tanavast. As an insider, he was able to provide the current holder of Odium with an opportunity to shatter Honor. And then while the heralds thought he was being tortured on Braize, he was instead in a hot tub drinking martinis.

Okay, I threw a few extra ideas in there so now there’s a bunch of chronological contradictions, and I’m too lazy to revise it. The original idea was that Rayse and Taln switched places, but I expanded it over the course of posting this.

[RShara]

1 hour ago, ILuvHats said:

This one’s crazy

This is the part I can agree with

[SwordNimiForPresident]

Taravangian tricks Odium into making Renarin his Champion. Renarin convinces Dalinar to fight and kill him. Many sad feels are had.

Equally soul crushing would be if Dalinar had made Adolin the Champion and he had to kill Renarin.

Edited February 28, 2019 by SwordNimiForPresident

[Inky]

13 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Taravangian tricks Odium into making Renarin his Champion. Renarin convinces Dalinar to fight and kill him. Many sad feels are had.

Equally soul crushing would be if Dalinar had made Adolin the Champion and he had to kill Renarin.

Sorry sir that's illegal

[Karger]

Book 5 will end with The everstorm being destroyed.   Taln will go back to Braize with a select team as a bodyguards so that he can hold the oathpact.  The team will include Kaladin, Szeth, and Ash.  This will buy some time for the members of team radiant to prep for the desolation that will get kicked off once Taln (who will still be comatose this entire time) gets recaptured(I think the fused know his weaknesses by now).  The back 6 will include interludes with team Braize's exploits and end with Odium sawing off a part of himself to escape Honor's binding as he realizes that the potential for damage on Roshar is to great and that he must make a strategic retreat.

[Inky]

I can't see the going back to Braize thing happening due to Brandon saying that SA 5 will be a satisfactory ending, which to me says the Desolations will be dealt with in their entirety and then books 6-10 are a new story/Singer-Human aftermath/Finish off Odium once and for all arc 

[Ahriman]

3 hours ago, ILuvHats said:

This one’s crazy

But so, so beautiful. This is my favourite theory now. If, through some twist of fate, this is true, or even close, I will be coming to you for answers to everything in my life.

I don't see any kind of replacement Heralds thing happening, even as a temporary measure. Not only do we know the Oathpact wasn't a great plan, but I don't think it works that way ever since the Everstorm started. I think the landscape is something entirely new now, and it will require a different solution.

My guess is that Odium will spend a great deal of effort in book 5 to kill Renarin, and that will lead to whatever the conclusion is. Renarin might die.

[Calderis]

I think that Taravangian will fulfill his role as a plant and somehow undermine Odium, creating an opportunity for Dalinar to reforge Honor and Ascend, and in the process both Rayse and Taravangian die, leaving Odium to be picked up by a very vengeful Ialai Sadeas. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Calderis

[Karger]

59 minutes ago, Inky said:

I can't see the going back to Braize thing happening due to Brandon saying that SA 5 will be a satisfactory ending, which to me says the Desolations will be dealt with in their entirety and then books 6-10 are a new story/Singer-Human aftermath/Finish off Odium once and for all arc 

I would like an offensive against Braize at some point though no war in human history has been won by defense alone and I can't think of a realistic ending that does not involve an assault on damnation at some point.

[Calderis]

7 minutes ago, Karger said:

I would like an offensive against Braize at some point though no war in human history has been won by defense alone and I can't think of a realistic ending that does not involve an assault on damnation at some point.

Winning this "war" has nothing to do with territory. 

In my opinion, war is what Odium wants. Strife and animosity and pain and conflict. The parties involved don't matter. 

You win by neutralizing the Unmade and making peace between human ans singer. Deny the Fused bodies and Odium has no army. If you can take him out in the process, even better. 

Braize is an inhospitable wasteland inhabited by bodyless immortals. What's the point in attacking it? 

[LerasiumMistborn]

14 hours ago, Lord Mistborn Skybreaker said:

The champion thing ended with Oathbringer. 

Odium chose his champion (Dalinar). Odium lost the contest of champions. 

It happened, so why is everyone ignoring that it did, and that that thread is over?

I thought it was over too. Seems like it's not. I'd prefer if it was over, honestly. Because Champion of Light vs Champion of Darkness in fantasy? Really? Please don't.

I was hoping for something more interesting and unexpected. Dalinar as Honor's Champion vs Dalinar vs Odium's Champion in a duel of minds is much more better. It was a good chance to conclude this "duel of Champions" thing. Unfortunately, it was missed, and there probably will be another cliched and boring Kaladin vs Moash. Though it perfectly fits with current boring and cliched "nature" of those books.

14 hours ago, Quantus said:

It's a relatively far-fetched (and mostly thematic) thing, but the whole nature of Cultivation is for things to grow and change, it would drive the holder to avoid any kind of long-term stasis, and thus be more open to Cultivating a heir/successor.  I entirely think she has a goal of Cultivating a successor for the Honor Shard, so why not one for her own.  She may choose to retire and live on as a Sliver, perhaps go Worldhopping. Or she may choose to follow Tanavast into the Beyond.  But for basically the same reasons you are saying that Navani will Die if Dalinar does, I think Cultivation is going to move on to whatever she decides will be her new stage in life.

I don't understand why does she need a successor for the Honor Shard. I don't think Honor will be repaired and taken by new Vessel. Mostly because I don't see any character who could do it. There's no one, who would be able to become a new Honor. All those characters will still be main/side characters in the second half, and Shard Vessels can' be main characters, they can't have povs and chapters. 

I think Navani will die for more narrative reasons. She's a minor character, featured mostly in Dalinar's chapters. Without him, there's no place left for her.

14 hours ago, Quantus said:

The Intent of the Shard is what it is, but the Interpretation of that intent (as well as how well the person resists it's influence) makes a lot of difference.  Sazed could be interpreting Harmony very differently, just as Ati could have with Ruin.  The Vessel's Personality Filters the Intent. And then there's the fact that shards can ad do drive their Vessel's Crazy over time, which is going to have a big effect, and I think arguments could be that Rayse is pretty darn crazy (though he also may have started that way)

It can be interpreted differently by Vessel, but not changed entirely....Like, I don't think Odium could be changed into "Love" by Vessel. It could be changed briefly though. But I think, Moash is not a good person or at least he doesn't have a strong will. I think, his Odium would be more or less the same as Rayse's Odium.

 

10 hours ago, Gasper said:

All cosmere spoilers:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

This may not be Game of Thrones, but Sanderson has a habit of killing main characters. Elend, Vin, Kelsier, Lightsong, Harathen, just to name a few. Some one is going to die by the 4th or 5th book, some one important.

 

"Sanderson has a habit of killing main characters."

Yes, he has. He has Dalinar for this exact purpose, I did mention it. Everyone else is safe.

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

leaving Odium to be picked up by a very vengeful Ialai Sadeas. 

But she's such a minor character...not even a real villain. Shard Vessels are very important for cosmere endgame. I can't see someone like her gaining such importance. Somehow it feels wrong and weird to me.

[RShara]

14 hours ago, Quantus said:

The Intent of the Shard is what it is, but the Interpretation of that intent (as well as how well the person resists it's influence) makes a lot of difference.  Sazed could be interpreting Harmony very differently, just as Ati could have with Ruin.  The Vessel's Personality Filters the Intent. And then there's the fact that shards can ad do drive their Vessel's Crazy over time, which is going to have a big effect, and I think arguments could be that Rayse is pretty darn crazy (though he also may have started that way)

Hey, why are you capitalizing intent, huh?

[Winds Alight]

5 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Taravangian tricks Odium into making Renarin his Champion. Renarin convinces Dalinar to fight and kill him. Many sad feels are had.

Equally soul crushing would be if Dalinar had made Adolin the Champion and he had to kill Renarin.

You are one evil person.

[Quantus]

7 hours ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

I don't understand why does she need a successor for the Honor Shard. I don't think Honor will be repaired and taken by new Vessel. Mostly because I don't see any character who could do it. There's no one, who would be able to become a new Honor.

Shards dont do well without Vessels, at best they run the risk of gaining sentience on their own, which I think would be worse (best case is that the Stormfather would end up Ascending on his own, and a Shard that is at his core a massively destructive Thunderstorm would be harsh at best).  And I think it would be in Character for Cultivation to Cultivate a candidate, rather than leave it to chance.

7 hours ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

All those characters will still be main/side characters in the second half, and Shard Vessels can' be main characters, they can't have povs and chapters. 

Why would you think that? Sazed was, and had plenty of POV chapters.  Personally, Im in the camp that think Dalinar is already doing it, and will reinterpret Honor as Unity. 

7 hours ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

I think Navani will die for more narrative reasons. She's a minor character, featured mostly in Dalinar's chapters. Without him, there's no place left for her.

I think you underestimate her, but then Im a big fan of the Engineer of the team.

7 hours ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

It can be interpreted differently by Vessel, but not changed entirely....Like, I don't think Odium could be changed into "Love" by Vessel. It could be changed briefly though. But I think, Moash is not a good person or at least he doesn't have a strong will. I think, his Odium would be more or less the same as Rayse's Odium.

Never said Odium would be changed to that degree, just that Rayse (the person) may not survive the first half. At best I think the next Vessel will find a different rationalization and not try to convince themselves that it's Passion, but at least they likely wont have the same opinions about the need to go killing off all the rest of the Shards to be Top Dog.  And I agree that Moash would not be a whole lot better for anyone, but he's the most likely (or maybe just least unlikely) candidate that Ive seen so far. Thought @Calderis's Ialai Sadeas suggestion is interesting, but so far I think Moash is more likely by virtue of receiving more backstory, explanation, and development. 

6 hours ago, RShara said:

Hey, why are you capitalizing intent, huh?

Because it's a big ol' godly Intent, not just some measly objective.  I always capitalize the Intents themselves (Ruin, Honor, Harmony) so it seems right to capitalize the indefinite case; the mistake in that sentence was not capitalizing it the second time.  Though admittedly I do have a bad habit of capitalizing random words for vague emphasis. I usually dont even notice I'm doing it until I look back and realize half the sentence is capitalized. 

[Use the Falchion]

16 hours ago, ILuvHats said:

This one’s crazy, but it’s been a pet theory of mine ever since I cooked it up. I never shared it because it’s pure insanity, though strangely enough I originally believed it was legitimate for Agee seconds until I thought through it more thoroughly. 

Rayse isn’t Odium’s vessel, at least currently. He gave it up prior to the expulsion from Ashyn to someone who he knew would serve his interests, and hid the exchange from people who actually knew him, which is why Hoid still believes he is Odium’s vessel. And then, Rayse infiltrated Honor’s own chosen heroes. That’s right, Rayse is a herald. Or to be more specific, Taln. That’s how he was able to kill Tanavast. As an insider, he was able to provide the current holder of Odium with an opportunity to shatter Honor. And then while the heralds thought he was being tortured on Braize, he was instead in a hot tub drinking martinis.

Okay, I threw a few extra ideas in there so now there’s a bunch of chronological contradictions, and I’m too lazy to revise it. The original idea was that Rayse and Taln switched places, but I expanded it over the course of posting this.

I LOVE THIS YES PLEASE. It'd make Taln and Ash's relationship even more tragic, but if they find out that Taln had been replaced by Book 5, Ash can be a part of the team that goes to Braise to end things once and for all.

10 hours ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

Because Champion of Light vs Champion of Darkness in fantasy? Really? Please don't.

I see where you're coming from here, and in a lot of cases I'd agree, but I trust Sanderson. Besides, tropes aren't inherently bad. It's the intent and skill of the author that makes or breaks a story. Mistborn 1, Avatar: The Last Airbender, and the original Trilogy of Star Wars all tell the same story -  a plucky band of heroes/rebellion rising up to fight the Evil Empire. But each feels different and special. Stormlight Archive is no different. Sanderson has the skill do the "Champion vs Champion" thing well, so if that's the angle he wants to go, I'll go with him. At the end of the day, Stormlight Archive is a love letter to fantasy - a reconstruction of the tropes within the genre if you will. So using tried and true tropes in a new/fresh/interesting way is to be expected to be a part of it.

 

Personally I'm a fan of the theory that the first half will end with another shattering like how the Shattered Plains were...shattered. Other than that, I can't think of anything else really. Maybe it'll end with the (living) heralds picking up their blades and - going off @ILuvHats's theory - to find their missing friend Taln. Oh, and it's revealed that Gavilar didn't pass to the Beyond and will take up the Shard of Odium, facing off against his brother in the second half. 

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Use the Falchion

[Ixthos]

My theory is that Odium will be contained again, or perhaps killed, but if he does die then Moash will take him up. The authors of the letters in Oathbringer, guided by Dalinar, will help, and their efforts will allow ten knights to contain Odium. The remainder of the book would then cover them beginning to explore the Rosharan system in the first fabrial space ships, while waiting for Odium or Odium held by Moash to break free, this time for a battle across the whole Rosharan system.

 

And Wit will disappear into a pool, and head off towards the expanse of the vapours ... :-P

[Ahriman]

14 hours ago, Calderis said:

I think that Taravangian will fulfill his role as a plant and somehow undermine Odium, creating an opportunity for Dalinar to reforge Honor and Ascend, and in the process both Rayse and Taravangian die, leaving Odium to be picked up by a very vengeful Ialai Sadeas. 

I never thought of her doing anything interesting before, but that would be fascinating.

12 hours ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

I think Navani will die for more narrative reasons. She's a minor character, featured mostly in Dalinar's chapters. Without him, there's no place left for her.

I may have a bit of bias here, since she's one of my favourite characters, but I don't expect her to die at all. Granted, I don't expect Dalinar to die either, and you see her dying as a consequence to him dying. But even if he did, she could well live on. Sanderson has no problem with killing characters, but I've never felt that he killed someone just because he had no more use for them. She could continue as a minor character if Dalinar dies at some point, or just sort of fade out if there was nothing else for her.

13 hours ago, Calderis said:

Winning this "war" has nothing to do with territory. 

In my opinion, war is what Odium wants. Strife and animosity and pain and conflict. The parties involved don't matter. 

You win by neutralizing the Unmade and making peace between human ans singer. Deny the Fused bodies and Odium has no army. If you can take him out in the process, even better. 

Braize is an inhospitable wasteland inhabited by bodyless immortals. What's the point in attacking it? 

I would tend to agree with that, or at least most of it. I don't see a conflict between Shards being about territory so much as influence and power. For instance, if Dalinar had succeeded in drawing Odium out with a contest of champions and defeating him that way, that could have won it without going to Braize.

[LerasiumMistborn]

16 hours ago, Quantus said:

Shards dont do well without Vessels, at best they run the risk of gaining sentience on their own, which I think would be worse (best case is that the Stormfather would end up Ascending on his own, and a Shard that is at his core a massively destructive Thunderstorm would be harsh at best).  And I think it would be in Character for Cultivation to Cultivate a candidate, rather than leave it to chance.

This is true, but I think, "Shard power without Vessel can gain sentience on it's own" already happened...This is Stormfather. He's a splinter of honor that gained sentience after Honor's death (presumably by merging with Tanavast's soul). I doubt he may Ascend, and even if he could, we know that Cognitive Shadows (And Stormfather is Honor's Cognitive Shadow) can't be normal (full) Shard Vessels. Because Shard should piercing all three realms, and Cognitive Shadows (well, most of them) don't have physical bodies, so they don't Connected to physical realm.

I suppose, only human can be a full Vessel. If Honor's resurrection were to happen, one of the current characters should take the Shard. But I don't see anyone who could do it. That's why I think Honor won't come back...

16 hours ago, Quantus said:

Why would you think that? Sazed was, and had plenty of POV chapters.  Personally, Im in the camp that think Dalinar is already doing it, and will reinterpret Honor as Unity. 

But Sazed happened on the last pages of the last book. In Mistborn 2, he's still around, but he's not a main character and he doesn't have POV chapters. SA is ten books and all those characters are supposed to be main characters with povs in all those books. If some of them Ascend, they will stop get chapters. 

I think Dalinar will die.

16 hours ago, Quantus said:

I think you underestimate her, but then Im a big fan of the Engineer of the team.

I don't...I like Navani, and I wish she had more focus. But leaving her alone after Dalinar's death? This is too cruel even for Sanderson...Maybe it would be merciful too kill her too...I hate to say this. Dalinar and Navani were both widowers. They lost someone dear for them. We saw how hard it was for Dalinar to lose Evi. Navani/Gavilar union may not be perfect, but still...they lived together for 30 years. It's extremely hard to lose someone you spent lifetime with. Can you imagine this happening again? It would be so awful for Dalinar and Navani to lose each other again. Now I'm thinking how they could die together...like, at the same moment, so none of them won't experience the loss again. I can't think of anything decent...

Of course, I want them to live a quite life together, but no way Sanderson will write it  

16 hours ago, Quantus said:

Never said Odium would be changed to that degree, just that Rayse (the person) may not survive the first half. At best I think the next Vessel will find a different rationalization and not try to convince themselves that it's Passion, but at least they likely wont have the same opinions about the need to go killing off all the rest of the Shards to be Top Dog.  And I agree that Moash would not be a whole lot better for anyone, but he's the most likely (or maybe just least unlikely) candidate that Ive seen so far. Thought @Calderis's Ialai Sadeas suggestion is interesting, but so far I think Moash is more likely by virtue of receiving more backstory, explanation, and development. 

I agree, that Odium's Vessel will be killed in book 5. I was thinking about 1) Someone taking the Shard and merging it with another Shard (maybe Honor) 2) Someone taking the Shard and slightly changing it's Intent (though changing Intent by merging with another Shard would probably work better).

In both ways, we don't have any candidate for Honor's Vessel. And Odium's Vessel...same. I don't see anyone who could change it into something better. Moash probably won't.

11 hours ago, Ahriman said:

I may have a bit of bias here, since she's one of my favourite characters, but I don't expect her to die at all. Granted, I don't expect Dalinar to die either, and you see her dying as a consequence to him dying. But even if he did, she could well live on. Sanderson has no problem with killing characters, but I've never felt that he killed someone just because he had no more use for them. She could continue as a minor character if Dalinar dies at some point, or just sort of fade out if there was nothing else for her.

Think about it...Navani lost her husband, then daughter...she was mourning Jasnah for a long time. Then Jasnah came back to her...but she lost her son. Will she want to live without Dalinar? Taking Dalinar from her is just too cruel...

[Calderis]

3 minutes ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

This is true, but I think, "Shard power without Vessel can gain sentience on it's own" already happened...This is Stormfather. He's a splinter of honor that gained sentience after Honor's death (presumably by merging with Tanavast's soul). I doubt he may Ascend, and even if he could, we know that Cognitive Shadows (And Stormfather is Honor's Cognitive Shadow) can't be normal (full) Shard Vessels. Because Shard should piercing all three realms, and Cognitive Shadows (well, most of them) don't have physical bodies, so they don't Connected to physical realm.

The Stormfather was a bondsmith spren before Honor's death, and he existed in some form before even the Shattering as he is the source of stormlight on Roshar. 

He's a spren, like all the others. Just special. 

Edited March 1, 2019 by Calderis