The Purelake is a perpendicularity

[+Oltux72]

That lake must be either extremely young or there is a force that removes the crem.It also contains magic fish. And it's behavior during Highstorms is also very hard to naturally explain. And why doesn't it overflow whenever a Highstorms passes? They drop a lot of rain and the Purelake is incredibly shallow.

So I think there is a perpendicularity in it or very close below the ground it rests upon. I think it is Cultivation's as it is so nicely about growing. That means that the one in the Hormeater Peaks must be Honor's, which explains why Urithiru is located close to them.

[Rushu42]

It might be, I suppose. That would explain why several Worldhoppers showed up there in one of the interludes. Of course, it might also just be sheltered from highstorms, like Shinovar or Thaylenah.

[Quantus]

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

That lake must be either extremely young or there is a force that removes the crem.It also contains magic fish. And it's behavior during Highstorms is also very hard to naturally explain. And why doesn't it overflow whenever a Highstorms passes? They drop a lot of rain and the Purelake is incredibly shallow.

So I think there is a perpendicularity in it or very close below the ground it rests upon. I think it is Cultivation's as it is so nicely about growing. That means that the one in the Hormeater Peaks must be Honor's, which explains why Urithiru is located close to them.

The purelake actively empties itself when a highstorm is coming, and the residents just wedge themselves into an exposed ridge.  It's theoretically possible for that to happen more or less naturally due to a massive air pressure change that would accompany the highstorm, but Im guessing it's a least partly caused by something in the spren ecosystem.  Id say there's a good chance the lake itself has its own Spren.  Either way could concievably be cleaning/flushing the crem before it has time to harden and build up

[+Child of Hodor]

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

That lake must be either extremely young or there is a force that removes the crem.It also contains magic fish. And it's behavior during Highstorms is also very hard to naturally explain. And why doesn't it overflow whenever a Highstorms passes? They drop a lot of rain and the Purelake is incredibly shallow.

So I think there is a perpendicularity in it or very close below the ground it rests upon. I think it is Cultivation's as it is so nicely about growing. That means that the one in the Hormeater Peaks must be Honor's, which explains why Urithiru is located close to them.

The magic fish could be similar to the magic horses, Ryshadium, and other beings. Some sort of basic spren bonding, not to the degree that radiants do, but enough to enhance them. 

I would have thought it was a perpendicularity, but I don't think it can be. I think the Horneater peaks is Cultivation because Honor's perpendicularity moves around (it's not the highstorms, but may be connected through the Stormfather or some other way). 

 

Quote

 

Questioner

Is there any way it's possible that somebody could have gotten to the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial without the Well of Ascension?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

And can we know how?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, how many Shardpools would Scadrial have?

Questioner

Two, so the Pits of Hathsin would be so? That's what I theorized.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. So you've adopted the term "Shardpool". That was never really my term, but I've started using it. What happens with a perpendicularity is large concentrations of Investiture, particularly purely attuned to one of the Shards, will create an access point. You've seen another one in--

Questioner

Yeah, yeah I know these.

Brandon Sanderson

You know which one I'm referencing?

Questioner

Yes.

Brandon Sanderson

That you didn't see a Pool from?

Questioner

Oh wait--

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, he knows, so… We'll move on. *general outcry* Okay, fine. Umm, at the end of Words of Radiance.

Argent

There has to be one there because Jasnah has to leave somehow, right?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but Honor's Perpendicularity moves.

Questioner

Woah...so...Highstorm?

Brandon Sanderson

*makes non-committal noises*

Questioner 2

Kind of related to that, I don't know if this is a RAFO kind of question, but you call them perpendicularities, are we going to see this sort of thing created? Could there be, like--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, perpendicularities can be created. You'd need a lot of Investiture, right? You'd need a ton of Investiture. But, basically what Jasnah does is create a little mini perpendicularity, right? And slips herself into the Cognitive Realm.

Questioner 2

So it's just a question of skill, not a question of--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. It's hard to pull off, but some of the powers are built to do it.

Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016)

 

 

[+Oltux72]

44 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

The magic fish could be similar to the magic horses, Ryshadium, and other beings. Some sort of basic spren bonding, not to the degree that radiants do, but enough to enhance them.

Yes.

44 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

I would have thought it was a perpendicularity, but I don't think it can be. I think the Horneater peaks is Cultivation because Honor's perpendicularity moves around (it's not the highstorms, but may be connected through the Stormfather or some other way).

There are multiple peaks for it to switch between it, aren't there?

Besides, why else would Urithiru be where it is? If the Highstorm were Honor's perpendicularity, you should build on the east coast.

[Kramerfarve]

21 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

There are multiple peaks for it to switch between it, aren't there?

Besides, why else would Urithiru be where it is? If the Highstorm were Honor's perpendicularity, you should build on the east coast.

I’m sorry guy, but I’m going to believe what the spren say, as they actually live in the cognitive realm. I’m sure that they after millennia of civilization would have figured out which perpendicularity was whose. Also, trust a worldhopper, they typically know what’s going on someplace before they travel there. We cannot judge perpendicularities by Urithiru because of the major difference in time between Urithiru’s founding and modern Roshar. We do not know how Honor’s perpendicularity behaved before his shattering and it could very well have been best accessed from the tower.

[+Child of Hodor]

"I am close to you, but the power is not --it still rides the storm." - OB CH. 64 Stormfather when he tried and ailed to renew a sphere through Dalinar. 

"Odium rides the very winds, like the enemy once did." OB I-6 a Fused marveling at the Everstorm. 

"Almighty Above" is a common expression. Rosharans burn prayers with the idea that the smoke carries the prayer up to the Almighty. 

I think they asked for Urithiru to be placed in the mountains because it's closes to the storms in the sky where Honor hung out and his power still renews spheres. 

Also, yeah I forgot in Oathbringer Spren and worldhoppers name the one in the peaks cultivation's. Common spren knowledge is probably correct. 

1 hour ago, Kramerfarve said:

I’m sorry guy, but I’m going to believe what the spren say, as they actually live in the cognitive realm. I’m sure that they after millennia of civilization would have figured out which perpendicularity was whose. Also, trust a worldhopper, they typically know what’s going on someplace before they travel there. We cannot judge perpendicularities by Urithiru because of the major difference in time between Urithiru’s founding and modern Roshar. We do not know how Honor’s perpendicularity behaved before his shattering and it could very well have been best accessed from the tower.

 

[Karger]

We have a WoB that says that is it possible for one shard to have multiple perpendicularities.

[RShara]

4 minutes ago, Karger said:

We have a WoB that says that is it possible for one shard to have multiple perpendicularities.

True, but I think the spren would be aware of it if there were a perp in the Purelake?

[Karger]

23 minutes ago, RShara said:

True, but I think the spren would be aware of it if there were a perp in the Purelake?

We have no indication that they are unaware and it is possible that for some reason that this perpendicularity is not used.  It is also possible that this perpendicularity belongs to my beloved fourth shard theory and is not open to most honor/cultivation spren for that or some other reason.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Karger

[Scion of the Mists]

2 hours ago, Karger said:

We have no indication that they are unaware and it is possible that for some reason that this perpendicularity is not used.  It is also possible that this perpendicularity belongs to my beloved fourth shard theory and is not open to most honor/cultivation spren for that or some other reason.

Brandon has said multiple times in multiple ways that there are only three Shards on Roshar: https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=roshar%2Bthree%2Bshard

[Quantus]

2 hours ago, Karger said:

We have a WoB that says that is it possible for one shard to have multiple perpendicularities.

I have no proof but I strongly suspect this is in reference to the (so far) unique condition of Autonomy being spread among multiple vessels/Avatars.

 

2 hours ago, Karger said:

We have no indication that they are unaware and it is possible that for some reason that this perpendicularity is not used.  It is also possible that this perpendicularity belongs to my beloved fourth shard theory and is not open to most honor/cultivation spren for that or some other reason.

If they are aware of it, they are actively hiding that fact from Worldhoppers like Vivenna, which I dont think would make much sense.  They'd told her about Cultivation's Perpendicularity at the Horneater's Peaks, and even about the "other one" that moves and is more dangerous.  Also, for what it's worth there was also no indication that Odium's forces were amassing at the Purelake the way they were at the Peaks, and Id have to assume they would lay siege to any and all stable perpendicularities. 

[+Child of Hodor]

20 minutes ago, Quantus said:

I have no proof but I strongly suspect this is in reference to the (so far) unique condition of Autonomy being spread among multiple vessels/Avatars.

 

If they are aware of it, they are actively hiding that fact from Worldhoppers like Vivenna, which I dont think would make much sense.  They'd told her about Cultivation's Perpendicularity at the Horneater's Peaks, and even about the "other one" that moves and is more dangerous.  Also, for what it's worth there was also no indication that Odium's forces were amassing at the Purelake the way they were at the Peaks, and Id have to assume they would lay siege to any and all stable perpendicularities. 

Unless it's the *Sixth of the Dusk Spoilers*:

Spoiler

Patji thing where a perpendicularity formed from ambient investiture without a Shard being residence. I doubt it is this, Brandon has said what happened on Patji is an edge case.   https://wob.coppermind.net/events/315/#e9385

 

Also, I agree that if this was a stable perpendicularity the Fused would be camping it out and we have no indication of that. 

Edited February 26, 2019 by Child of Hodor

[Karger]

40 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Brandon has said multiple times in multiple ways that there are only three Shards on Roshar: https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=roshar%2Bthree%2Bshard

As of when? It is all together possible that the death of one or more could make the total three and if not then were did the sibling come from?

 

24 minutes ago, Quantus said:

I have no proof but I strongly suspect this is in reference to the (so far) unique condition of Autonomy being spread among multiple vessels/Avatars.

 

If they are aware of it, they are actively hiding that fact from Worldhoppers like Vivenna, which I dont think would make much sense.  They'd told her about Cultivation's Perpendicularity at the Horneater's Peaks, and even about the "other one" that moves and is more dangerous.  Also, for what it's worth there was also no indication that Odium's forces were amassing at the Purelake the way they were at the Peaks, and Id have to assume they would lay siege to any and all stable perpendicularities. 

They could be hiding it for one reason or another, it could be unstable and Odium's forces have already surrounded the purelake as of the end of Oathbringer.

[Quantus]

2 minutes ago, Karger said:

As of when? It is all together possible that the death of one or more could make the total three and if not then were did the sibling come from?

Well, from the filtered list @Scion of the Mists posted, the most recent time he's specifically said "there are three Shards involved in Roshar." was 2016, he just specifically refuse to say (in that same WOB) whether the fact that there were three Shards and three Bondsmith spren was cooincidence or not.  But then, there were three distinct Magics and only Two shards on Scadrial, so there's at least as much possibility that the Sibling is the "balance" point of the two similar to how Feruchemy is described as a blending of Preservation and Ruin.

2 minutes ago, Karger said:

They could be hiding it for one reason or another, it could be unstable and Odium's forces have already surrounded the purelake as of the end of Oathbringer.

So, sure, the possibility remains that all the spren can be keeping it a secret both now and in the past when Vivenna was worldhopping, and there can be another embargo force at the point that nobody mentioned when they were being asked what their perpendicularity options were.  It just feels like more and more of a stretch towards tinfoil to me.

[Scion of the Mists]

31 minutes ago, Karger said:

As of when? It is all together possible that the death of one or more could make the total three and if not then were did the sibling come from?

It's pretty clear from the text that the Sibling is spren on the order of the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher (which are sometimes referred to as godspren).  

From OB chapter 111, a conversation between Dalinar and the Stormfather:

Quote

"Yes, you've said. The Nightwatcher is like you. Are there others, though? Spren like you, or the Nightwatcher? Spren that are shadows of gods?"

There is ... a third sibling. They are not with us.

"In hiding?"

No. Slumbering.

[Calderis]

Brandon's been pretty clear in regards to the number of shards involved on Roshar. 

Quote

Chaos (paraphrased)

How many Shards have existed on Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Three.

Ancient 17S Q&A (May 1, 2010)

 

[insert_anagram_here]

What I find interesting is that in the WoB that  @Child of Hodor quoted Sanderson took a moment to say that 'shardpool' isn't a word he created and then proceeded to guide the questioner towards a certain trail of thought. I think this points that a 'shardpool' as a word has a flaw that doesn't apply in the case of Honor's perpendicularity. And I think it's the aspect of scale, as in a pool is too small.

We know that gems charge up during a Storm so we assume the storm is the Perpendicularity. But what if it's the rain? Bare with me. If Purelake is invested and the storm is invested the common thing between the two is water, but water without crem. So, we know that gems trap stormlight, so what if crem traps stormlight in minuscule quantities to the point that it's not visible? But then roughens up and traps it on the inside?

[Kramerfarve]

5 hours ago, insert_anagram_here said:

So, we know that gems trap stormlight, so what if crem traps stormlight in minuscule quantities to the point that it's not visible? But then roughens up and traps it on the inside?

The knights most definitely would have noticed this. The world around them is surrounded in an almost permanent crust of crem. If crem indeed had investiture of any quantity, radiants would have noticed that as they walk their stores fill ever so slightly. Also, Larkins would be having a grand old time sucking investiture out of the ground, they survive on investiture, so they would have no reason not to be continually feeding.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Kramerfarve

[insert_anagram_here]

3 hours ago, Kramerfarve said:

The knights most definitely would have noticed this. The world around them is surrounded in an almost permanent crust of crem. If crem indeed had investiture of any quantity, radiants would have noticed that as they walk their stores fill ever so slightly. Also, Larkins would be having a grand old time sucking investiture out of the ground, they survive on investiture, so they would have no reason not to be continually feeding.

I'm talking about really really minuscule amounts of Investiture, trapped in the minerals of rainwater. So small to not notice that Investiture interacts, but on a grand scale of, say, the all the water on Roshar, it would amount to one shardpool. As far as knights and larkins go, we don't know too much stuff about them in the first place, but even if we did maybe the amount of Investiture on the ground isn't enough to make them notice? Just an idea that I'm throwing out there, maybe it will spark something in someone's mind.

[Wyndle88]

I think Purelake was a mountain before.

Imagine this a very distinct stone mountain more long than tall. Probably like Mt Kailash of Nepal. Like a man lying on his back but his legs bent at knees. More long than tall. Imagine this distint mountain is Honor's Perpendicularity (a peak).

Now for a very specific purpose this whole Stone mountain was cut with a shardblade and the major part was transported to someplace else. And if this area was filled with water, that's Purelake. Hence " Purelake is even throughout with water reaching roughly a man's knees.

Now where the cut section was removed to is related to Urithiru and how East wall of Urithiru is flat as if cut by Shardblade.

A mountain Spren would be very huge and would not move from its position as it sees itself as immovable. Urithiru Spren Sibling is supposed be a Spren of Stone. The Oathgates could be made with sections of this mountain stone. And when Oathgates activates it's something like invoking Honor's Perpendicularity there. That's the reason HP could be said to move around.

Also an eye of the storm is said to be very calm part on earth with drizzle like rain etc. So the "Purelake is next to Honor's Perpendicularity" could mean HP is all around the Purelake which explains the weather of Purelake during highstorm and lack of crem is due to the water is being fed into the storms but getting replenished hence build up of crem not possible.  Magical fish is because of this magical water replenishing itself.

[RShara]

5 hours ago, Wyndle88 said:

I think Purelake was a mountain before.

Imagine this a very distinct stone mountain more long than tall. Probably like Mt Kailash of Nepal. Like a man lying on his back but his legs bent at knees. More long than tall. Imagine this distint mountain is Honor's Perpendicularity (a peak).

Now for a very specific purpose this whole Stone mountain was cut with a shardblade and the major part was transported to someplace else. And if this area was filled with water, that's Purelake. Hence " Purelake is even throughout with water reaching roughly a man's knees.

Now where the cut section was removed to is related to Urithiru and how East wall of Urithiru is flat as if cut by Shardblade.

A mountain Spren would be very huge and would not move from its position as it sees itself as immovable. Urithiru Spren Sibling is supposed be a Spren of Stone. The Oathgates could be made with sections of this mountain stone. And when Oathgates activates it's something like invoking Honor's Perpendicularity there. That's the reason HP could be said to move around.

Also an eye of the storm is said to be very calm part on earth with drizzle like rain etc. So the "Purelake is next to Honor's Perpendicularity" could mean HP is all around the Purelake which explains the weather of Purelake during highstorm and lack of crem is due to the water is being fed into the storms but getting replenished hence build up of crem not possible.  Magical fish is because of this magical water replenishing itself.

I replied to your same post in another thread. FYI, this thread is over a year old