Nightblade

Where did Kelsier get his new body?

36 posts in this topic

18 hours ago, John203 said:

Source plz.

As @Scion of the Mists says - purely unsubstantiated theory.  What I do have is the below WOB stating that you can use a spike to take something from a spren.  As spren are cognitive beings, and Kelsier is a cognitive shadow now, it is not a huge leap to think that someone in Shadesmar could spike Kelsier, or that he could do it himself.  We also know that you can store memories, and use spikes to grant feruchemical abilities.  You can also create the medallions to grant abilities.

 

So it is not a huge stretch (in my mind)to see Kelsier, who has endless time, spending some of it doing research and coming up with the medallions.  Then Physical realm people (We saw him communicate to spook across the realms) to get them to make what he needs.  He downloads his memories into a a copper medallion, and then has his entire identity spiked out of his cognitive shadow.  That Identity spike gets implanted into a mistrwraith and he essentially becomes a kandra.  He gets his memory bank back, and reclaims them all.  He gets his skeleton back, and reclaims his body.  He continues to experiment with spikes and medallions, and gets his powers back.

 

It is not a huge stretch (to me).  He had 300 years to figure it out, and he is nothing if not driven.  But I have no source, no proof, nothing other than the knowledge that invested metal can hit spren, and a bunch of thoughts that kinda make sense to me.

Quote

Mr. Suit

Can spren - like Syl - be pierced by hemalurgic spike? Will it give some effect?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. A spren can be pierced by Invested metal…

Oversleep

Could it be spiked?

Brandon Sanderson

Could a spike be used to give abilities to spren? That’s not going to work really well.

Oversleep

Could you steal from a spren?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you could steal the Investiture of a spren. Any Investiture can be used in a spike if you know what you’re doing. It’s actually not that hard to use one on a spren.

Oversleep

Because I thought you said Hemalurgy needs moving blood.

Brandon Sanderson

It needs, uh, yeah… there are places where spren have more physical form, more tangible form.

Questioner

Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

No, no, no, not Roshar.

Questioner

The Cognitive Realm on Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, if you go to the Cognitive Realm on Roshar the spren act differently than they do.

Oversleep

So you could spike in the Cognitive Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah I’ll leave a RAFO with you on that. That’s your fifth one. So there are ways to get any Investiture into Hemalurgy if you know what you’re doing. But yeah this is not something that would be a common use for Hemalurgy. Let’s just say that.

Oversleep

We do not concern ourselves with common uses.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, I know you don’t. But yeah Hemalurgy, when you’re spiking into somebody you… you’ll see when we get around to it.

Kraków signing (March 21, 2017)

 

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I like the mistwraith idea the best. I just feels a bit neater. 

Then again, from an author's point of view, I wonder if Brandon wants us to have to deal with a more morally ambiguous method.

"Kelsier's back. Yay! Oh, wait, he killed some dude and stole his body? Ehhh..."

It sounds like something Brandon would do. 

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, WhiteEmporer said:

I like the mistwraith idea the best. I just feels a bit neater. 

Then again, from an author's point of view, I wonder if Brandon wants us to have to deal with a more morally ambiguous method.

"Kelsier's back. Yay! Oh, wait, he killed some dude and stole his body? Ehhh..."

It sounds like something Brandon would do. 

It sounds like something Kel would do. 

Edited by Calderis
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The mistwraith idea makes the most sense to me, perhaps a Kandra offered up their body after absorbing Kelsier's bones. 

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The two reasons I think Kel would choose a mistwraith instead of a random body is that he

1. Might have wanted his old bones back. But I don't know how sentimental he is. I certainly would if I had the opportunity, but I am highly sentimental.

2. So that he gained even more power than the fullborn stuff. Shape-shifting, some levels of innate regeneration and expanded lifespan, that kind of stuff. As well as the ability to claim, "I am even more immortal than the Lord Ruler, and hold powers even he can't command." As well as, "I am the true embodiment of the metalic arts!" Because he's bombastic like that.

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Eh. Kelsier is a CS. Inhabiting a Kandra Body isn't going to make him a Kandra. It's still his Spiritual Aspect that matters here. Either he'd be sharing the body with a living Kandra, or he'd have a gelatinous body that he doesn't have the ability to control. 

As to sentimentality... Kel is a Sociopath. I doubt it. 

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Personally I am almost 100% sure he just arranged for someone to be killed and took their body.

Manifesting one out of investiture seems overly complicated and I am not convinced the Kandra theory would work with a human CS.

On the other hand, would Kel kill someone for personal gain, especially if he can justify it as being for a "greater good"? Absolutely.

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But how? If he had to stab himself for the transfer, how did he continue experimenting after the first test? If he experimented on other shadows, where did he get them? And where did he get the bodies? Stabbing somebody in the eye, if you do it wrong, will generally be fatal.

Using a mistwraith has the advantage that killing them with a spike at least is quite unlikely.

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Is anyone else kinda disappointed that Kelsier came back, physically at least? I mean, I love Kelsier and all, but his death was significant in the first Mistborn. Maybe it's just me, but when characters die, I like them to stay dead, otherwise, it's almost like their sacrifice isn't as big of a deal

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Kel is literally the only person (on scadrial) to have some how come back from death.

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