LerasiumMistborn

WoB on Dalinar

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For those who think that Dalinar's role and word count will increase and increase after Oathbringer and that he will have a big role within the series.

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EDIT: https://imgur.com/a/fc3Y227

Edited by LerasiumMistborn
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Assuming that is Brandon, he does say that while Dalinar's word count going forward might not be as much as it was in Oathbringer, he'll still have some great scenes, so as a Dalinar fan, it doesn't sound like you anything to worry about.

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Role and word count are not synonymous. 

I wouldn't have expected Dalinar to get more than in Oathbringer to start with. That doesn't preclude him from having a role in book 5 that is only overshadowed by Szeth (not saying that's what will happen, but it's completely possible). 

I think you're reading far more into what has been said in your screenshot than was meant. 

Edited by Calderis
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Most importantly, it doesn't say anything about the second set of books. Books 6 to 10 won't focus on Kaladin, Shallan, etc., but if will still feature any survivors, and Dalinar is likely to be one of them, just as important then as Jasnah is now.

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21 hours ago, Calderis said:

Role and word count are not synonymous. 

I wouldn't have expected Dalinar to get more than in Oathbringer to start with. That doesn't preclude him from having a role in book 5 that is only overshadowed by Szeth (not saying that's what will happen, but it's completely possible). 

I think you're reading far more into what has been said in your screenshot than was meant. 

I don't know. That broke my heart...After Oathbringer I expected to read more Dalinar, not less...There were too many loose ends and potentional plot lines. Besides, Dalinar was becoming too important for more global narrative to be put on the background again.

I don't want to read book 5. That's why I was hoping for book 4, but Dalinar's role in this book is very small.

And the worst thing is, he didn't mention book 6 and the second half in general. Overal tone of the message implies that Dalinar won't show up after book 5 ever again.

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I didn't feel the tone that Dalinar won't be in 6-10.  I just think that Brandon has 1-5 more fleshed out in his mind.  Dalinar was supposed to be book 5 originally, right?  It makes sense that he'd still have an important role in that book, if not OB level word count.

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The more I learn about book 4 the less I want to read it.

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Beyond the order of the characters, Brandon has told us nothing at all about the back half. We know there's a 10-15 year gap between 5 and 6 and that's it. 

We don't know who will be alive. We don't know what the situation will be. There are people who believe that Roshar will be destroyed and the back half won't even be in the same world. 

We know absolutely nothing about the second Arc. Brandon not mentioning it at all is completely normal. 

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I think we know (there should be WoBs on that) that the whole SA will be on Roshar and there will be some scenes on the planet where Odium is trapped.

Word count does matter for those, who enjoy reading Dalinar PoVs.

Edited by LerasiumMistborn
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I enjoy Dalinar's point of views but I don't feel the need to track which characters get the most sheer word count because it doesn't really matter that much, it's the emotional and plot impact that matters and Dalinar has plenty of that.

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1 hour ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

For those who think that Dalinar's role and word count will increase and increase after Oathbringer and that he will have a big role within the series.

w.png

So I agree with the other posters that this isn't as pessimistic as you're seeing it. The person whose focal book it is has always been the book that person gets the most number of words. So it's perfectly sensical that Dalinar won't get as many words again as he did in OB. Kaladin has only had the most word count in his book, Shallan has only had the most word count in her book. In Kaladin's book, Dalinar had more words than Shallan. In Shallan's book, Kaladin had more words than Dalinar.

In book 4, Eshonai is probably going to get the most words, followed by Kaladin, Shallan, and Dalinar (probably not in that order. Ditto with book 5 for Szeth. A different character that isn't the top three getting the most words in a book means the main three will get less.

25 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Beyond the order of the characters, Brandon has told us nothing at all about the back half. We know there's a 10-15 year gap between 5 and 6 and that's it. 

We don't know who will be alive. We don't know what the situation will be. There are people who believe that Roshar will be destroyed and the back half won't even be in the same world. 

We know absolutely nothing about the second Arc. Brandon not mentioning it at all is completely normal. 

 

15 minutes ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

I think we know (there should be WoBs on that) that the whole SA will be on Roshar and there will be some scenes on the planet where Odium is trapped.

Word count does matter for those, who enjoy reading Dalinar PoVs.

The point is, we know absolutely nothing about the back five, about who's going to survive and who isn't. The only thing we know is who the flashback characters are, and that doesn't even guarantee that those characters will be alive.

Also, Brandon says right in that message, that he loves Dalinar, and that Dalinar will have some of the most powerful scenes in the series. That's not something you do for a minor character. Whatever Dalinar's future is going to be, it's absolutely not going to be irrelevant or small or petty.

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5 minutes ago, CrazyRioter said:

I enjoy Dalinar's point of views but I don't feel the need to track which characters get the most sheer word count because it doesn't really matter that much, it's the emotional and plot impact that matters and Dalinar has plenty of that.

Yep. Though I relate to Kaladin's issues better (probably because of it actually) I enjoy reading Dalinar more than Kaladin. Where Kaladin has basically been the action star of the series, Dalinar is its heart. 

You can replace an action star a lot easier there. 

@LerasiumMistborn I don't want you to feel picked on because we disagree with you. Your thoughts are your own, and you're free to stop reading the series as you said you want to... I just feel like you'll be missing out. 

Whatever you decide, I'm not going to keep arguing it. I hope you're happy with your decision in any case. 

 

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21 hours ago, CrazyRioter said:

I enjoy Dalinar's point of views but I don't feel the need to track which characters get the most sheer word count because it doesn't really matter that much, it's the emotional and plot impact that matters and Dalinar has plenty of that.

It's not about sheer word count. It's about Dalinar always staying on the background and have five chapters per book. Like in Words. Like in book 4. Reading such big book for five chapters is meaningless. I'd rather Dalinar being less important, but having more povs.

I believe, people would react differently, if Sanderson cut down Kaladin. If Kaladin were that character who has five chapters per book amd 30k words, people would riot. But this is Dalinar, a character no one cares about.

21 hours ago, RShara said:

In Kaladin's book, Dalinar had more words than Shallan. In Shallan's book, Kaladin had more words than Dalinar.

In book 4, Eshonai is probably going to get the most words, followed by Kaladin, Shallan, and Dalinar (probably not in that order. Ditto with book 5 for Szeth. A different character that isn't the top three getting the most words in a book means the main three will get less.

The point is, we know absolutely nothing about the back five, about who's going to survive and who isn't. The only thing we know is who the flashback characters are, and that doesn't even guarantee that those characters will be alive.

Also, Brandon says right in that message, that he loves Dalinar, and that Dalinar will have some of the most powerful scenes in the series. That's not something you do for a minor character. Whatever Dalinar's future is going to be, it's absolutely not going to be irrelevant or small or petty.

Kaladin and Shallan still have a big word count in all the books. Dalinar is absent in any book that isn't Oathbringer (Way of Kings wasn't that bad though). Kaladin has 120/80k words in "not his books". Shallan has 120/60k. Dalinar has 30k...

How Eshonai can have higher word count if she is dead? You mean Venli?

He also said that he loves certain character from Mistbon, which didn't prevent him from pullung another meaningless heroic sacrifice.

The problem is "whatever happens with Dalinar" is important for me. What EXACTLY happens with him is important. I wanted him to live. Those "powerful scenes" are him dying most likely. I don't care if it's powerfully written or whatever, for me this is a total waste.

21 hours ago, Calderis said:

Yep. Though I relate to Kaladin's issues better (probably because of it actually) I enjoy reading Dalinar more than Kaladin. Where Kaladin has basically been the action star of the series, Dalinar is its heart. 

You can replace an action star a lot easier there. 

@LerasiumMistborn I don't want you to feel picked on because we disagree with you. Your thoughts are your own, and you're free to stop reading the series as you said you want to... I just feel like you'll be missing out. 

Whatever you decide, I'm not going to keep arguing it. I hope you're happy with your decision in any case. 

 

Kaladin is the heart of the series.

I'm not happy, I'm heart-broken. Reading this series since 2011, having many hopes for Dalinar...that's not easy to forget about it and pretend like it never existed. I wish I never read these books.

Time skip is another clue that Dalinar won't survive.

Edited by LerasiumMistborn
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1 minute ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

Kaladin and Shallan still have a big word count in all the books. Dalinar is absent in any book that isn't Oathbringer (Way of Kings wasn't that bad though). Kaladin has 120/80k words in "not his books". Shallan has 120/60k. Dalinar has 30k...

Dalinar got 87/30 in the not-his books. Not just 30k.

Kaladin had 120/74.

Shallan had 100/60.

The difference in WoR is substantial, but no where does Brandon say he's going to get as few words as he did in WoR, only that he'll get less than in OB. Which again, matches what happened with everyone else.

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7 minutes ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

Kaladin is the heart of the series.

Kaladin has more adoring fans than anyone else sure. They're the same people who were upset at his reduced role in OB. But Kaladin is not the main character. There is no one main character. 

Seriously though, I'm done with this. You've obviously made up your mind about how things are going to go. 

Edited by Calderis
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I mean, I get that you're worried about Dalinar. I understand.  But I think you're reading more pessimism into what Brandon's saying than he's actually putting there.

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21 hours ago, RShara said:

The difference in WoR is substantial, but no where does Brandon say he's going to get as few words as he did in WoR, only that he'll get less than in OB. Which again, matches what happened with everyone else.

"Much lesser role" makes me think about Words amount of screen time. In fact Way of Kings and Oathbringer both have the same 90k words for Dalinar in present day narrative, but Oathbringer also has long flashbacks, that's why the overall narrative was longer. Much less than this would be "Words" or a bit more or even a bit less.

 

21 hours ago, Greywatch said:

@LerasiumMistborn Eshonai is still getting her story told in SA4, even though she's dead.

Yes, but these are flashbacks. Flashbacks are usually 10-15 chapters. She can't have bigger role than Kaladun and Shallan.

 

21 hours ago, Calderis said:

You've obviously made up your mind about how things are going to go. 

I don't mind disagreement...It's my fault only. It was just foolish to expect something from a character like Dalinar and hope for him. I was an idiot.

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Just now, LerasiumMistborn said:

"Much lesser role" makes me think about Words amount of screen time. In fact Way of Kings and Oathbringer both have the same 90k words for Dalinar in present day narrative, but Oathbringer also has long flashbacks, that's why the overall narrative was longer. Much less than this would be "Words" or a bit more or even a bit less.

 

Yes, but these are flashbacks. Flashbacks are usually 10-15 chapters. She can't have bigger role than Kaladun and Shallan.

 

I don't mind disagreement...It's my fault only. It was just foolish to expect something from a character like Dalinar and hope for him. I was an idiot.

You can interpret it that way if you want, but that's not what Brandon says.

Venli+Eshonai, if you insist. The point is that that narrative is going to take up most of the book, and given that they only have a very tenuous relationship with any of the big three, it makes sense that they'll be in less of the book.

Listen, I love Dalinar too. He's my favorite character in the series. I just really really think that you're misinterpreting what Brandon's saying. He flat out told you Dalinar's going to have some of the most powerful scenes in the entire series, aka all ten books from your viewpoint. What more can be asked?

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Personally speaking, Dalinar is my favourite character. Adolin and Kaladin have been close before, but Dalinar always wins, after Oathbringer. I identify with him a lot. OB is when I knew I loved him. It was a fantastic feeling at the end for me, very powerful experiencing Dalinar's arc throughout the three books so far. Brandon has a plot for him to follow up through SA4 and 5. I didn't even notice word count because his scenes were so powerful and interesting to me. 

I truly believe he's going to have an extremely satisfying arc in the future. There's no way Brandon would bring up what he did and not follow it up. Word count is not important to me, because he did what he did with Dalinar's story in OB. It was a very good use of words and scene count. He doesn't need to be the main character to be valuable - and no one is the main character. Kaladin isn't and Shallan isn't. The back five books are going to mix things up, and the focus characters for the first five could all still be around, or none of them. Brandon has been clear about that, and based on what Brandon has actually said, verifiably, that it's possible Kaladin and/or Shallan could die, too.

It's one thing to believe that Dalinar is going to die. But it just seems like you are purely ignoring what Brandon has really said to create a version of his words that he never did say. 

 

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The problem here is that you're speaking as if you've already read book 4 and 5. It's possible that as you say Dalinar will get 5 chapters in book 4 and die in book 5, but the beautiful thing is that we don't know yet. It's your decision to stop reading the series but you could at least wait to see if it turns out to be true, read opinions about it when it comes out as a reference maybe? I just think that dropping a series based on points that are yet to be proven is a bit hasty.

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@LerasiumMistborn First off, you are not an idiot. There is nothing wrong with making a few mistaken assumptions, and even then, we don't know your assumptions are correct. In the Wheel of Time, the book called the Dragon Reborn has the titular character, the main character who the book is named after and who the series centres on, appears only in about three chapters. But they are important chapters, and all the characters actions centre around him, including the climax. Throughout that series, several characters rise and fall in prominence, but they remain fan favourites even when their screen time is reduced. Its okay if you feel disappointed, but please don't focus so much on what could be that you forget what might be, or more importantly, what actually is present. I know you are upset and beating yourself up right now, but you don't need to, and I beg you, please, don't resign yourself to something which hasn't happened yet.

 

On a related side note, with the Cosmere spoilers ahead:

Spoiler

As your name implies, you have read Mistborn. Sazed is undoubtedly the most important character in that series, including Wax and Wayne. But he has very little screen time, including the climaxes of those books. But his actions are vital, and the story only runs because of him. If, hypothetically, Dalinar were to become the head of a group of knights who collectively take up Honour, etc. with his actions in the background but enabling the others, would that satisfy you, much like with Saze?

 

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@LerasiumMistborn I suggest waiting and reading the next two books.  You are spending way too much mental and emotional energy on worrying about stuff that hasn't been written yet.  It will be all right, whatever the outcome.  It won't be perfect, and there will be plenty of people who will be disappointed with different, or even opposing, aspects of the books.  But Brandon has developed a reputation of master storyteller for a reason (or lots of reasons).  Remember, the next step is the most important a man can make.  I do wish you the best.

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I'm really sorry, that your favourite character will get less words, I understand, how you feel. I'm not so fond of Dalinar, I like him, he is definitely very strong and complicated character with an amazing, soul-ripping arc and a huge value for the story. I just sometimes get bored with his chapters, so I can't say I love him as much as you do. When I was reading SA for the first time, sometimes it seemed to me, that I just read chapters of 4 characters, I'm interested in (Kaladin, Adolin, Shallan, Szeth), and on other characters' chapters I just fall asleep. Then I reread SA and I've found myself much more interested in Renarin, Jasnah and Dalinar, then I was on my first read-through. I even fell in love with Elhokar! My poor Elhokar... Anyway. We can't know the future and the author's plan. We can't even lean on WoBs, as they are subject to change and just little pieces of information, that could be misinterpreted. So what's in our power to do is either try to love all the characters and the story itself, or just brace ourselves and trust the author. Or drop the series... I truly believe, that Sanderson won't just waste such an amazing character, as Dalinar, as you imply. I don't think any artist would ever want to waste a masterpiece.

Edited by Sedside
Sarcasm was removed after the forum administraction's request
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10 hours ago, RShara said:

You can interpret it that way if you want, but that's not what Brandon says.

Ok, I will paraphrase myself. I knew Dalinar was going to die since the very beginning. My thoughts based not only on this WoB (though this WoB convinced my I was right too), but on combination of various things. I was thinking he's going to die long before I got this message.

What he says? I asked him about Dalinar's future within the series. He answered: small role in book 4 and a little bigger role in book 5. That's it. I didn't add anything from myself, he said it himself.

10 hours ago, RShara said:

Listen, I love Dalinar too. He's my favorite character in the series. I just really really think that you're misinterpreting what Brandon's saying. He flat out told you Dalinar's going to have some of the most powerful scenes in the entire series, aka all ten books from your viewpoint. What more can be asked?

What more can be asked? Dalinar staying prominent pov character with many chapters and screen time. Dalinar having role within the whole series, not only in the HALF of the series. As you're saying the entire series in 10 books. Sanderson said Dalinar has "moments" only in books 4 and 5 and that's it. That means he has no "moments" in the second half of the series and that means his role within the series will end in book 5.

And I don't care for "the most powerful and epic scene of Dalinar dying". I don't care...even if this is masterpiece of writing, I don't care. That's not what I wanted to read.

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