Child of Tanavast / Child of Honor --> now with WoB

[Calyx]

Tanavast and Cultivation's holder were romantically involved: 

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StormAtlas (paraphrased)

Were Cultivation and Honor romantically involved?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

Rithmatist Albuquerque signing (May 22, 2013)

So if Kaladin is a literal (rather than figurative, as many have suggested) descendant of Tanavast, does this mean that he is also a descendant of Cultivation? Kind of hard to imagine Honor sleeping around.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Calyx

[Winds Alight]

21 minutes ago, Calyx said:

Tanavast and Cultivation's holder were romantically involved: 

So if Kaladin is a literal (rather than figurative, as many have suggested) descendant of Tanavast, does this mean that he is also a descendant of Cultivation? Kind of hard to imagine Honor sleeping around.

Now that's interesting. Tanavast likely would never have slept with another woman so ... maybe that means that Kaladin is not a literal descendant of his? Because I believe there was never any indication whatsoever that Kaladin might have anything to do with Cultivation?

[Calyx]

On 5/23/2019 at 10:38 AM, Winds Alight said:

Now that's interesting. Tanavast likely would never have slept with another woman so ... maybe that means that Kaladin is not a literal descendant of his? Because I believe there was never any indication whatsoever that Kaladin might have anything to do with Cultivation?

I feel like we know so little about Cultivation, what she is doing, or what has to do with her. It is apparent, though, that she is deeply involved in a lot of stuff; even with Dalinar, who is clearly the most honor-involved character.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Calyx

[Arith Matic]

Perhaps it has to do with the order of windrunners being bonded to honorspren, making them closer to honor thus giving them higher status to honor.

[Ripheus23]

No, the answer is that Lirin is going to become the next holder of the Shard of Honor  edit: and Cultivation is going to pass her power to Hesina [or Cultivation is Hesina!].

Edit 2: And the residue of Tien will merge with the Sibling to become the next holder of Odium  Kaladin must kill his resurrected brother to save Roshar  Will he do it?!?!?!

Edited July 10, 2019 by Ripheus23

[Winds Alight]

16 hours ago, Ripheus23 said:

No, the answer is that Lirin is going to become the next holder of the Shard of Honor  edit: and Cultivation is going to pass her power to Hesina [or Cultivation is Hesina!].

Edit 2: And the residue of Tien will merge with the Sibling to become the next holder of Odium  Kaladin must kill his resurrected brother to save Roshar  Will he do it?!?!?!

This started out nice and cool and got very dark very quickly.

[cometaryorbit]

On 5/20/2019 at 0:45 PM, Jofwu said:

My guess/interpretation:

Stormfather is Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow, so he's merely drawing a relationship between himself and Kaladin as a Windrunner. (i.e., Windrunners like Kaladin are his children just as Syl and the honorspren are.)

Or possibly:

The Stormfather is Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow and Syl is the Stormfather's daughter. If Syl and Kaladin's bond is seen as a metaphorical marriage, that would make Kaladin Stormfather/Tanavast's son-in-law.

[CosmicSieve]

3 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Or possibly:

The Stormfather is Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow and Syl is the Stormfather's daughter. If Syl and Kaladin's bond is seen as a metaphorical marriage, that would make Kaladin Stormfather/Tanavast's son-in-law.

As amusing as that idea is to me, I believe Stormfather made Syl before he joined with Tanavast's cognitive shadow. Technically, I think all the other Honor spren would be Stormfather/Tanavast's children or descendents thereof, and only Syl is a child of just the Stormfather.

[Subvisual Haze]

I suspect it is mostly an observation that Kaladin places the desire to do the right thing above doing merely what the rules/oaths tell him is the right thing.

Tanavast was the human holding the power of Honor.  We know that the nature of the shards can warp the perspectives of their holders over time (Ati was a kind person, Ruin made him axecrazy).  I suspect early on Tanavast was a more compassionate person who cared deeply for protecting humanity.  As time progressed though and he was wounded in his struggle with Odium, I suspect he grew more extreme in his interpretation of Honor (black-and-white thinking, emphasizing the letter of oaths/laws instead of the human impact, not freeing the suffering Heralds from their oaths).  As Odium himself accused:

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"Honor cared only for bonds.  Not the meaning of bond and oaths, merely that they were kept."

Now, everything Odium says should be viewed with a grain of salt, but he might be hinting at the end result of that sort of transformation process: Tanavast's personality being warped over time from viewing honor as a way of trying to do the right thing, and instead focusing on the process itself of Honor (keep oaths above all).  The Stormfather himself implies at one point that Honor's personality had changed quite a bit by the end.  You could view Szeth and Nale as good examples of that sort of extreme Honor rule following undiluted by compassion.

Kaladin rather uniquely of the characters spends a lot of time mulling over what "doing the right thing" actually means.  He wants to protect everyone, but how can you do that when two different groups of people you are sympathetic to start killing each other?  Other characters are not necessarily evil in what they do, but they don't spend a lot of time digging deep about what really is right/wrong in specific situations.  Dalinar follows the codes and the Words of Radiance without really constructing his own beliefs on right/wrong.  I think that confusion and extreme focus on "what is right" by Kaladin is what makes him so uniquely Tanavast-like.

[First Witness]

I'm not sure that I believe he's the only one who examines right and wrong.  Dalinar has a concept of righteousness,  and he is still amending it as he goes.  

He just owned his own terrible behaviors,  so that his journey can inform his destination. I do not think that's the deciding factor, personally.