Jasnah V Kaladin

[Calderis]

Where does the idea that stormlight gets harder to use the more you use it come from? 

Using it too quickly can have issues, especially when someone is "too new" like we see with Kaladin just prior to swearing the second Oath... But stormlight pushes the user to spend it. It wants to be used. Why would it get harder? 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Calderis

[Pathfinder]

16 hours ago, Karger said:

It is not a typo.  As long as Kaladin is alive and fighting offensively the fused cannot turn their attention on Dalinar.  The best ways to win in almost any combat setting is to open yourself to some kind of risk.  Kaladin does not want to win and so he is not risking anything instead he is just blasting as much light as possible until he runs out making sure that Dalinar has at least that long.

But with all due respect that seems counter intuitive to me in the situation Kaladin is in. If he blazed through his stormlight, then that would mean he wouldn't last as long, which would leave Dalinar vulnerable to the enemy and there would be nothing Kaladin could do about it. Conversely if he conserved his stormlight while fighting them, it would give Dalinar more time to finish what he was doing, and also give more time for reinforcements to arrive. So I think based on the book, Kaladin wanted to outlast the fused, but still ended up going through his stormlight too fast without realizing it. But I have no problem agreeing to disagree regarding this point. If from your perspective Kaladin would want to burn through his stormlight quickly, then that rationale would still apply to the fight with Jasnah, which would still result in her outlasting him instead of the other way around. At least that is my reading of it. 

 

As an aside, regarding my "research", I have not had as much time as I would like to go over Jasnah and Shallan, nor been able to finish Kaladin yet. So I decided to post what I have so far. This goes from Kaladin leaving Dalinar to engage Amaram, till Kaladin first notices how much stormlight he has gone through. I have listed every use, and every wound to hopefully give us a fuller picture. 

 

Oathbringer page 1145

Kaladin lashes himself up into the air.

 

Oathbringer page 1155

Kaladin is using stormlight to make himself lighter while fighting Amaram. Then he lashes himself into the air to get away from Amaram. Then lashes himself to the side to chase after the fused. Lashed himself backwards to dodge an arrow from Amaram. Kaladin is then described as zipping away so that implies to me he used additional lashings. Then he lashed himself into a dive. 

 

Oathbringer page 1161

Kaladin's feet get trapped by Amaram. Amaram then hits Kaladin on his Syl shield causing Kaladin to get knocked back and snap his ankles. Kaladin pulls his feet out of his boots, and then lashes himself backwards while he heals. While moving backwards he scoops up a large stone, and applies "several" lashes to it. I quote "several" because that is the specific word used. According to the dictionary several denotes from at least 2, but not many, so if acceptable to all present, I would say a range of 2 to 5? The stone flies and cracks the fused in the head, causing it to cry out in pain and pull back. So a large rock, lashed 2 to 5 times, flew with enough force at a surprised fused's head to cause it pain but did not knock it unconscious, nor cause its skull to explode. The description also does not state it was a glancing blow, so the large stone hit the fused head square on. Kaladin then does that again to another rock to hit Amaram's horse to get it to run away. He then lashes himself up a few inches so he would not be trapped by the cohesion trick again. Then he lashed himself backwards. Kaladin is smacked by a club from a fused (in the shoulder and ribs) sending him flying. He then lashes himself up and forward opposite his trajectory to slow his landing while he heals.

 

Oathbringer page 1173

Kaladin makes a shield with Syl but when whacked by the club again it sends him flying towards the remains of a wall. He then lashes himself up while he heals and looks around realizing how much stormlight he has drained from the area. He remarks to himself "had he really used so much?". It is enough that the area he is fighting in has gone dark and shadowed. He dives down to the cohesion fused, and let's it run him through, then lashes it up and away. Literally right after realizing he used up so much stormlight, he purposefully lets the fused run him through so he would have the chance to lash it up and away. He then in his words gets a little more stormlight from some gems it seems he forgot, and then lashes himself up into the air and then towards Amaram. 

 

There is still more to the combat but at this point we have Kaladin having used roughly 18 lashes, and having healed from two broken ankles, broken ribs, and a broken shoulder. That drained almost all the stormlight in his area. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Pathfinder

[+Child of Hodor]

I wouldn't put too much stock in measuring Stormlight usage at Thaylen Field. Everybody was running around like they got the star in a Mario game. 

If both are at 5th ideal I wonder what can be done with pressure that we haven't seen. It's hinted in a WoB that a Windrunner could get to the moon by lashing and survive the trip by creating an air bubble.   https://wob.coppermind.net/events/225/#e5806 Could Kaladin do the inverse and asphyxiate Jasnah by cutting her off from fresh air?

I think we can dream even bigger with these powers. Like Lightweaving seem less combat focused but this WoB says Lightweavers can use lasers in combat. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/309/#e11554  If making pretty light illusions leads to death rays just think of all the crazy powerful things someone could do with gravity manipulation, transportation and soulcasting once there access to and control of the powers expands enough.

With gravity you could send the entire battlefield up in the air, lash the edge slightly down and the whole thing would begin to rotate and tip over. 

Silence Divine Spoilers:

Spoiler

On Ashyn the cities float in the air, upside down. 

Each surge is supposed to correspond with a fundamental force. I'm thinking of that force in the world and what all it effects, what is the most extreme variant of it?

Gravity: Create a black hole. At least a mini one, like in Mass Effect the power singularity creates a small one and everything around it is pulled into it's orbit.

Transportation: Sonic boom! FTL? 

Soulcasting: I'm having trouble with this one other than transmute more over greater distances. Create combos like the oil-fire one she does on the Fused. It's possible to soulcast into things beyond the ten essences, but hard. Could do a massive Acid-Base combo that explodes a huge area. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Child of Hodor

[Pathfinder]

22 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

I wouldn't put too much stock in measuring Stormlight usage at Thaylen Field. Everybody was running around like they got the star in a Mario game. 

If both are at 5th ideal I wonder what can be done with pressure that we haven't seen. It's hinted in a WoB that a Windrunner could get to the moon by lashing and survive the trip by creating an air bubble.   https://wob.coppermind.net/events/225/#e5806 Could Kaladin do the inverse and asphyxiate Jasnah by cutting her off from fresh air?

I think we can dream even bigger with these powers. Like Lightweaving seem less combat focused but this WoB says Lightweavers can use lasers in combat. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/309/#e11554  If making pretty light illusions leads to death rays just think of all the crazy powerful things someone could do with gravity manipulation, transportation and soulcasting once there access to and control of the powers expands enough.

With gravity you could send the entire battlefield up in the air, lash the edge slightly down and the whole thing would begin to rotate and tip over. 

Silence Divine Spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

On Ashyn the cities float in the air, upside down. 

Each surge is supposed to correspond with a fundamental force. I'm thinking of that force in the world and what all it effects, what is the most extreme variant of it?

Gravity: Create a black hole. At least a mini one, like in Mass Effect the power singularity creates a small one and everything around it is pulled into it's orbit.

Transportation: Sonic boom! FTL? 

Soulcasting: I'm having trouble with this one other than transmute more over greater distances. Create combos like the oil-fire one she does on the Fused. It's possible to soulcast into things beyond the ten essences, but hard. Could do a massive Acid-Base combo that explodes a huge area. 

If you would refer to a prior post of mine, what happened when Dalinar brought the realms together, three things occured:

1. all current radiants got a ton of stormlight

2. the gemstones got infused

3. the realms being closer together makes surgebinding easier for all parties

 

Then it stopped. The realms started to drift apart so the surgebinding being easier remained but got less and less over time. There was not a continual infusing of stormlight. Basically it is like filling your car with gas to the brim, and then being given a tank of gas to put in the trunk. Once the car runs out, then you can draw on the tank of gas in the trunk, but once that is used you are still out of gas. Which is exactly what happens to Shallan and Kaladin. So star or not, it still runs out. 

Kaladin would need a way to keep Jasnah bound and unable to escape while cutting off her oxygen supply, which I have no idea how he would accomplish that when she can soulcast and teleport. Conversely soulcasting an aluminum box around him would prevent him from flying away, or using any of his surges, as well as keep him trapped long enough to run out of stormlight and then he suffocate and die. So although I would imagine you are right that he could attempt to asphyxiate her, I am unsure how he would make it "stick". 

Wouldn't that end up taking all of Kaladin's potential stormlight resource while Jasnah would just have to teleport away to avoid it?

We have seen the creation of mini "black holes" in the three books so far. It takes constant touch, and a whole lot of stormlight to pull objects in flight. To create the mass effect effect (lol), I think Kaladin would far exhaust his stormlight before even coming close. 

transportation I got no clue but I can't wait to find out! What she did to the three guys by throwing one into another into another was super epic! and that was before the perpendicularity. 

As long as the soulcaster understands what they are soulcasting and can get the concept across to his or her spren, they can soulcast it. There are WoB discussing about soulcasting plutonium and so on. 

[Karger]

If Jasnah tries to leave a vacuum instantaneously via the transportation surge she will instantly black out from the bends.  Yes stormlight can heal that kind of thing but it would take a lot and she would be venerable while recovering.

[+Child of Hodor]

8 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

 

Kaladin would need a way to keep Jasnah bound and unable to escape while cutting off her oxygen supply, which I have no idea how he would accomplish that when she can soulcast and teleport. Conversely soulcasting an aluminum box around him would prevent him from flying away, or using any of his surges, as well as keep him trapped long enough to run out of stormlight and then he suffocate and die. So although I would imagine you are right that he could attempt to asphyxiate her, I am unsure how he would make it "stick". 

 

I don't think Aluminum can be soulcast into or out of. I https://coppermind.net/wiki/Soulcasting https://wob.coppermind.net/events/332/#e9599

"Now, could you soulcast aluminum using a reasonable amount of energy that an individual could conceivably have in a normal setting and situation? No. "

 

"So star or not, it still runs out."

Yeah, no ____, that's what I'm saying. They were using way more than they doing a lot more in a short time than they normally would and it was made easier because the realms were closer.

 I recommend you play a Mario game in those game the star supercharges Mario for a time THEN IT RUNS OUT

What's your point, that Kaladin got tired eventually? My comment was that it is a unique situation that we can't use to precisely measure how much Stormlight was burned or how much an action normally took  "He had 16 Gigajoules of Stormlight and burned it at an average .5 Gigajoules a minute"

In this thread people have claimed to know the approximate amount of stormlight the gems scattered on the ground held and can therefore figure out how much was burned and at what rate. Brandon probably didn't bother with that for this scene. Dalinar summoned a perpendicularity and that allowed the characters to do what Brandon already wanted them to do. 

The three realms being close after the perpendicularity throws everything off. Most radiant powers involve some sort of realmatic manipulation and the three being close probably makes it easier to do things, perhaps making it require less stormlight. Jasnah seems to think it helps "Then let's make use of it before it fades, shall we?" OB Ch. 120.  He summons the perpendicularity in Ch. 119 and it's they are still close in ch. 120. We don't know when it faded, during the battle or if it didn't completely fade until after. 

But, enjoy arguing over gas conversion rates.

[Pathfinder]

9 minutes ago, Karger said:

If Jasnah tries to leave a vacuum instantaneously via the transportation surge she will instantly black out from the bends.  Yes stormlight can heal that kind of thing but it would take a lot and she would be venerable while recovering.

While holding stormlight you would not need to breathe to begin with. She could soulcast additional air if required, and transportation is instantaneous so I do not see how Kaladin could deprive an area around Jasnah of oxygen fast enough to create that kind of effect prior to her teleporting away. 

5 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

I don't think Aluminum can be soulcast into or out of. I https://coppermind.net/wiki/Soulcasting https://wob.coppermind.net/events/332/#e9599

"Now, could you soulcast aluminum using a reasonable amount of energy that an individual could conceivably have in a normal setting and situation? No. "

 

"So star or not, it still runs out."

Yeah, no ____, that's what I'm saying. They were using way more than they doing a lot more in a short time than they normally would and it was made easier because the realms were closer.

 I recommend you play a Mario game in those game the star supercharges Mario for a time THEN IT RUNS OUT

What's your point, that Kaladin got tired eventually? My comment was that it is a unique situation that we can't use to precisely measure how much Stormlight was burned or how much an action normally took  "He had 16 Gigajoules of Stormlight and burned it at an average .5 Gigajoules a minute"

In this thread people have claimed to know the approximate amount of stormlight the gems scattered on the ground held and can therefore figure out how much was burned and at what rate. Brandon probably didn't bother with that for this scene. Dalinar summoned a perpendicularity and that allowed the characters to do what Brandon already wanted them to do. 

The three realms being close after the perpendicularity throws everything off. Most radiant powers involve some sort of realmatic manipulation and the three being close probably makes it easier to do things, perhaps making it require less stormlight. Jasnah seems to think it helps "Then let's make use of it before it fades, shall we?" OB Ch. 120.  He summons the perpendicularity in Ch. 119 and it's they are still close in ch. 120. We don't know when it faded, during the battle or if it didn't completely fade until after. 

But, enjoy arguing over gas conversion rates.

I understand this thread has gotten rather long, but please go back and read the prior posts, this has been covered already. There is a WoB that says it is difficult to transform aluminum into something else, but not transforming something else into aluminum. That Word of Brandon is concerning changing aluminum into something else not changing something else into aluminum. Hopefully that clarified things. 

And as I pointed out in a prior post, if you increase everyone's capabilities equally then for all intents and purposes, they act as they were before. If you could lift 10 pounds before, and I could lift 15 pounds before, and we do the same exact exercise, and diet plan that results in us both being able to lift 10 more pounds than before resulting in you lifting 20 points and I lifting 25 pounds, then the difference is still the same. And what does that have to do with measuring use of stormlight? Ease or not, in that case the point I was making was that Kaladin burned through his stormlight without consideration, while Jasnah was more reserved which would support how they would use their stormlight in a battle. 

Please re-read my posts. The purpose was not to specifically calculate how much was used. The purpose was to illustrate the manner it was used in. And based on the information we can derive such conclusions.

The conclusions I am coming to does not rely on the perpendicularity because all parties involved are receiving the same benefit. 

Hopefully you will take time to read through the thread and that will clarify matters. 

[Karger]

1 minute ago, Pathfinder said:

While holding stormlight you would not need to breathe to begin with. She could soulcast additional air if required, and transportation is instantaneous so I do not see how Kaladin could deprive an area around Jasnah of oxygen fast enough to create that kind of effect prior to her teleporting away. 

The bends are caused by a sudden loss of pressure in the environment I don't think you have to be breathing at the time for it to matter.  Also the most likely reaction to finding your air is gone is holding your breath which will cause your lungs to burst in total vacuum.  This will require a bunch of stormlight to repair.  Gasses are easily compressible so Kaladin should not have much trouble pushing all the air away from Jasnah fairly quickly and again I must point out that we have little idea how the transportation surge works or how accurate it is.  We have no idea what the resonance effect for windrunners is with bondsmiths and we also don't know if Kaladin was making use of his at the battle.  We also do not know if all resonance effects are equal it is perfectly possible that some are more powerful then others.

[Pathfinder]

8 minutes ago, Karger said:

The bends are caused by a sudden loss of pressure in the environment I don't think you have to be breathing at the time for it to matter.  Also the most likely reaction to finding your air is gone is holding your breath which will cause your lungs to burst in total vacuum.  This will require a bunch of stormlight to repair.  Gasses are easily compressible so Kaladin should not have much trouble pushing all the air away from Jasnah fairly quickly and again I must point out that we have little idea how the transportation surge works or how accurate it is.  We have no idea what the resonance effect for windrunners is with bondsmiths and we also don't know if Kaladin was making use of his at the battle.  We also do not know if all resonance effects are equal it is perfectly possible that some are more powerful then others.

To the best of my recollection the bends is the effect of a change in pressure effecting the oxygen in your lungs/in your bloodstream. That is why deep divers surfacing fast need to exhale the oxygen in their lungs as they go to prevent the bends. It is to try and keep equilibrium. 

Now let us break down this scenario. Has Kaladin somehow gotten Jasnah into a small enclosed place? If not, then creating a vacuum will not do much because the surrounding air will rush in to fill it. So now you are saying Kaladin is somehow expelling all air in the space directly around Jasnah and maintaining that long enough to go through her stormlight and then suffocate her?

[Karger]

7 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

So now you are saying Kaladin is somehow expelling all air in the space directly around Jasnah and maintaining that long enough to go through her stormlight and then suffocate her?

I see no reason why he could not do this.  Adhesion is the surge of vacuum pressure.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Karger

[Pathfinder]

2 hours ago, Karger said:

I see no reason why he could not do this.  Adhesion is the surge of vacuum pressure.

Because in an open space you would need to remove oxygen from the entire area? Air would rush in to fill the vacuum you are placing around Jasnah. If they were both in a sealed room sure, or if Jasnah was in a sealed space then totally, but if they are out in the open, I do not see that working the way you think it would. 

 

edit: maybe this illustration would help. Take a 10 gallon tank of water. Puncture a hole in its side. Water goes out that hole till the tank is empty. Great, if that was oxygen and Jasnah was trapped in there then great, you accomplished your goal. Now take the same idea, and puncture a hole in the ocean. How long do you think it would take to empty the ocean? So too, how long do you think it would take to remove all the oxygen in the atmosphere to then suffocate Jasnah standing out in the open?

Edited March 14, 2019 by Pathfinder

[Karger]

I think we are imagining the surge differently Adhesion: The Surge of Pressure and Vacuum can be used in my opinion to create and maintain a vacuum just as Kaladin in space could create and maintain a bubble of air.  (Also Kaladin is removing the nitrogen too).

We have a WoB on Kal's ability to do that.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Karger

[Pathfinder]

9 minutes ago, Karger said:

I think we are imagining the surge differently Adhesion: The Surge of Pressure and Vacuum can be used in my opinion to create and maintain a vacuum just as Kaladin in space could create and maintain a bubble of air.  (Also Kaladin is removing the nitrogen too).

We have a WoB on Kal's ability to do that.

From what I understand the production of air aiding in space travel is to prevent explosive decompression of the oxygen in your body. So Kaladin would still need to continually produce air to breath, that is then pulls away into the void of space. Same would work in reverse. I do not believe he could create a strong enough vacuum regardless his power that could swallow enough oxygen to counter the fact that jasnah is in an open area. At the end of the day we aren't even sure if kaladin would be capable of this ability at all as the closest we have seen is a weak gravity well effect that at its strongest pulled arrows towards it. Also in book confirmed that it has to be in flight because otherwise the objects tie to the ground would make it harder to pull. So since we are just spit balling around at this point, I have no problem agreeing to disagree on this. 

[Bigmikey357]

@Pathfinder

Realising one has a problem is often the first step to fixing it. Kaladin's alarming Stormlight usage can be curtailed with practice and understanding. However, looking at a contest between the two while taking into account their Surges, Jasnah's greatest advantage is versatility. It would be movement too but it seems the mechanics of Transportation isn't like say, Nightcrawler. Almost anything in her range can be changed provided she sees it coming and has time to overcome its initial Investiture. She can mostly rely on Plate for defense and if she gets overwhelmed she has a nearly fullproof escape route. Kaladin's big advantage, perhaps his only one against Jasnah, is movement in the Physical Realm. In addition to the enhanced movement Plate provides every Radiant he can fly. Unfortunately, everything he does when it comes to his advantage takes Stormlight to accomplish. The nature of his powers mean that he will use a lot of his Stormlight evading whatever Jasnah can cook up. 

The balance is that Kaladin doesn't use as much Stormlight to lash as Jasnah uses to soulcast. The way I envision it, Kaladin and Jasnah each have a conveyer belt where a rock appears in front of them once every second. If Jasnah is Soulcasting her rock while Kal is lashing his, Jasnah runs out faster because she has to overcome the Investiture of each rock she affects. Jasnah's Stormlight usage is therefore likely a learned behavior. The nature of her Surges allows this behavior to not be fatal. I don't see Stormlight conservation as an incredibly difficult skill to learn, nor one particularly granted to only certain Surgebinders. What is it about Surges that makes it so you don't believe Kaladin will ever get the hang of it? Yes he's shown little evidence of it so far but the last scenes show his awareness of the issues he faces. Again I think you downplay the role experience has in interpreting Kaladin's magical actions to date.

Kaladin will use more Stormlight than Jasnah in a given battle. He has the luxury to be able to do so and he depends on his Surges more. In most battles he will run out before Jasnah will. But his abilities can press her. And if he can run her dry even as he runs dry himself he wins. Unless you think an unpowered Jasnah beats an unpowered Kaladin.

Last, why couldn't Kaladin just punch through the aluminum box Jasnah would Soulcast around him with his Shardplate or cut through it with Syl? It stops magic but not momentum. It's going to act like a Faraday cage but if someone is holding a wrench and hitting it from the inside the cage will break. And Soulcasting something big enough to encase Kaladin in while he's moving is likely to take a very significant portion of her reserves. The aluminum dust to me is the better option.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Bigmikey357

[Karger]

I almost agree but you are both forgetting Kaladin's advantages as a combat trained and battle hardened soldier.  He can probably understand his opponent quicker adapt better and rise faster then Jasnah can after getting knocked over.  He also has the advantage in a no stomlight battle if they both run out due to this and a higher pain tolerance(that could certainly matter even if stormlight heals wounds). 

[+Oltux72]

3 hours ago, Karger said:

If Jasnah tries to leave a vacuum instantaneously via the transportation surge she will instantly black out from the bends.  Yes stormlight can heal that kind of thing but it would take a lot and she would be venerable while recovering.

Why? She would increase the ambient pressure on herself.

[Karger]

2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Why? She would increase the ambient pressure on herself.

The bends happen both with increasing and decreasing pressure.

[Calderis]

It's pressure... Kaladin can't produce air. He could hold a bubble of atmosphere around him by manipulating pressure to hold the air around him. The air inside would behave the same way air does, in that it would be breathed and carbon dioxide would be produced requiring it to be scrubbed away and oxygen produced... Which means this isn't a long term travel plan.

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Could a Windrunner in Shardplate travel to other planets?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Uh, theoretically possible. Take a long time.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, it would. 'Cause he wouldn't need to breathe, if he's got enough Stormlight.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yeah, well, I mean, they can control pressure, so. You'd need oxygen scrubbers, but they can also, so... you can create a ball of air around yourself with their power anyway, so--

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

As such, I definitely think Kal could create a vacuum, but it would probably be complicated and massively expensive. You'd need to produce a massive pressure wave to force all of the atmosphere out of an area, the way that he used pressure to push aside the highstorm, and then maintain that in a sphere around and area to keep it all out. 

I don't think there's any possible way this would be effective again anyone who can draw in stormlight, because the rate of consumption of stormlight to hold your breath has got to be less expensive than that mess. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Calderis

[Karger]

Holding your breath in vacuum is a terrible idea and if you exhale don't you loose your stormlight?

 

[Calderis]

3 minutes ago, Karger said:

Holding your breath in vacuum is a terrible idea and if you exhale don't you loose your stormlight?

They expend stormlight faster breathing normally. They don't just breath it all out. 

First off, the minimal but cumulative damage of holding their breath would be mitigated by stormlight. Second, they could simply breath out once, lose a tiny bit of stormlight... And then have no atmosphere to inhale and be not breathing and then not expending extra stormlight.

[Karger]

2 minutes ago, Calderis said:

minimal but cumulative damage

Its more like swallowing a small explosive

[Calderis]

1 minute ago, Karger said:

Its more like swallowing a small explosive

This is an exaggeration. The problem with holding your breath is that it will rupture the alveoli of the lungs. The damage itself is minimal but the effect it has is decidedly fatal. Still shouldn't be an issue for a Radiant. 

[Karger]

17 minutes ago, Calderis said:

This is an exaggeration. The problem with holding your breath is that it will rupture the alveoli of the lungs. The damage itself is minimal but the effect it has is decidedly fatal. Still shouldn't be an issue for a Radiant. 

This brings up an interesting point.  We know that stormlight heals but we don't know if for example it is more difficult to heal a small complicated injury or a large simple one.

[Calderis]

2 minutes ago, Karger said:

This brings up an interesting point.  We know that stormlight heals but we don't know if for example it is more difficult to heal a small complicated injury or a large simple one.

If it works like standard cosmere healing, and it should, it seems to target the most life-threatening injuries first and foremost, but the actual amount used seems tied to the amount of damage that needs to be repaired/flesh that needs to be created. 

Complexity shouldn't matter as it is literally following a template from the Spiritual. 

[Karger]

What about if Kaladin increased the air pressure around Jasnah to several atmospheres?