MistboreD

Dalinar's future

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So, I've been thinking. The deeper we get into Cosmere the more important and larger than life Dalinar becomes. In Oathbringer we see him managing to gather enough power (presumably through his bond with the Stormfather and Connection to Honor's remnants) to force Honor's Perpendicularity. And he is only on his Third Ideal now...Can only imagine what is in store for him.

A lot of people seem to think that Dalinar is going to reforge Honor's Shard (maybe under different name/Intend of Unity). Dalinar is also very important to Brandon. So my question is, do you think Dalinar could become something more relevant to the rest of the Cosmere? Via Ascension to Honor he can actually become very important for the larger Cosmere narrative, and we've already seen some characters (particularly in Mistborn)  becoming very Cosmere-relevant past their orginal role. Do you think Dalinar might be headed in a similar direction?

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This is something I am looking forward to. Very interesting indeed.

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Beyond Dalinar being a great character, what's most intriguing to me about his future is Brandon saying Dalinar is his favorite character.

Now, that could mean nothing, just that Dalinar is a character Brandon has had in his mind forever and loves finally being able to portray him as intended.  But in a cast of so many (both SA and Cosmere,) I can't help but assume being Brandon's favorite means Dalinar has very, very big things ahead of him.

That doesn't mean he necessarily survives, but does some great thing that has long and far reaching SA and Cosmere significance.

I can envision something akin to creating a new Shard with the combined power of two or three shards on Roshar, but then having to pass it on to another.

MAJOR MISTBORN SPOILERS

Spoiler

I know the argument against that is usually 'Well Brandon did that once already,' but I've always thought that could have been a 'trial run.'  At the time of Mistborn, Brandon did not know if he'd ever get to publish SA or anything else.  He had no idea what his writing future held.  So I can completely see a scenario where he said, 'well, I have this great plot idea for SA, but that may never happen, so I'll use it for Mistborn to boost that series in case I never get the chance to do SA.'

Regardless, Dalinar being Brandon's favorite and a Bondsmith in a world heavily based on bonds, says to me that whatever he does it's going to have effects beyond SA.

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5 minutes ago, What's a Seawolf? said:

Beyond Dalinar being a great character, what's most intriguing to me about his future is Brandon saying Dalinar is his favorite character.

Hmm, so he's Brandon's favorite :) I never heard about it before, but I (If I remember correctly) read him saying Dalinar is important. But my bigger point is, Brandon would not give Dalinar Connedtion to Honor's power if it were for nothing. You don't tease things like this (like Oathbringer's ending), if you aren't going to continue. 

I think Dalinar is set up to reforge Honor firstly. 

As for Mistborn, as I mentioned before, all Shards in Mistborn were whole. But Honor is splintered. Un-splintering him would be something that never happened in cosmere yet.

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I actually hope that he doesn't ascend. I think it would be more interesting if his Bondsmith powers let him manipulate Honor's power without him actually taking up the Shard.

Mistborn spoilers

Spoiler

Ascending would feel to samey with the end of Hero of Ages

 

Edited by SwordNimiForPresident
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Oh I love this! I hope Dalinar WILL Ascend.

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I think there's good odds Dalinar will end up Ascending.

I do understand the concerns that it might be too similar to events in another series, but I trust Brandon to manage to make it not feel like a rehash of previous things he's done.

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The real questuon is: how something like this could be covered within Dalinar's limited page time. This would demand a lot of narrative. Dalinar isn't allowed to get more than a handful of chapters per book.

Sanderson never said Dalinar will have a role in Cosmere and, even this is a logical and natural development of Dalinar's character, I think all set up and foreshadowing is just a massive trolling from Sanderson.

Yes, I think this is a bad writing and broken promises to the readers. But nothing I can do with it, if Sanderson decided to ruin the character like this.

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2 hours ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

The real questuon is: how something like this could be covered within Dalinar's limited page time. This would demand a lot of narrative. Dalinar isn't allowed to get more than a handful of chapters per book.

Sanderson never said Dalinar will have a role in Cosmere and, even this is a logical and natural development of Dalinar's character, I think all set up and foreshadowing is just a massive trolling from Sanderson.

Yes, I think this is a bad writing and broken promises to the readers. But nothing I can do with it, if Sanderson decided to ruin the character like this.

That sounds very bitter and not very rational.
Why would BS go ahead and say whether or not Dalinar will have a greater role in the Cosmere? What would be the point? Something like that would be a major spoiler and if asked, get a majestic RAFO.

My guess for Dalinar is he's going to get involved in the bigger things beyond just what's going on on Roshar. Hoid already tried asking him about Adonalsium to see how Cosmere-aware he is.
I hope Dalinar won't ascend, but I'd love to see him become a new worldhopper.

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13 minutes ago, Winds Alight said:

Why would BS go ahead and say whether or not Dalinar will have a greater role in the Cosmere? What would be the point? Something like that would be a major spoiler and if asked, get a majestic RAFO.

I don't know. Usually he tries to be very careful when it comes to readers expectations. Well, at least, I got such impression. He tries not to allow people to have very high expectations for certain things. Having too high expectations are very dangerous...it can turn into a huge disappointment if/when things won't play out as people expected.

Trying to avoid it, Brandon often warns people what to expect or not expect. Like, warned people not to expect Avengers type of crossover in his books. He warned not to expect many information about Heralds until the second half of Stormlight. And things like this...He also shoots down particular theories, when people think into wrong direction. He confirmed that Eshonai won't come back. And so on. 

With Dalinar...I'm honestly confused. He intentionally wrote his narrative in Oathbringer that way to make people think he's going to be important for the bigger SA narrative and even beyond. As a result, numerous crazy theories like "Dalinar is the second incarnation of Adonalsium". What's seem weird for me is that Brandon never warned people not to expect something like this. When asked, he always RAFOs such questions, which means "yes" or "no", but for many people it's "ohhhh, he doesn't want to answers, that's because it's something important!". At the same time, Brandon never said Dalinar is something more than a character for 1-5 books of SA. I don't know why he doesn't want to shoot down all of those crazy Dalinar-related theories. Seriously, a lot of people have VERY high expectations. It could be dangerous...If he doesn't want to write more of Dalinar, if he wants to kill him halfway through SA series, not even reaching the series final (book 10), then why doesn't he...try to warn people not to expect very much?

He doesn't say anything that could imply on Dalinar's importance for SA (not to mention Cosmere), but he never said otherwise. Honestly, I'm confused. 

As for his narrative, it clearly was about reviving Honor's Shard. IMO, if this is all for nothing, it will be a huge disappointment.

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I don't see why it's dangerous to have high expectations, the more involved we get, the stronger the feelings we'll have of the books afterwards. I accept all strong, either positive or negative, feelings as a good thing, a way to feel 'alive' so to speak; If that can be said about reading books :)

Anyway, I think that Dalinar is just the right type of character to have high expectations of and, as the story stands, the most likely to ascend.

I think I've mentioned it before somewhere. I think 'Three of sixteen ruled, now the Broken one reigns' doesn't specifically point to just Odium as everyone assumes. Otherwise the wording would be 'now the Broken, one reigns'  or something like that. I believe that all three of the Shards are the Broken, and concidered 'one' because there is no clear discinction where the pieces, the spren, belong to.

So Unity is the path to get them all back together, to merge that Roshar Investiture into one Vessel and who better than Dalinar who is of Honor and Cultivation and Odium. He accepts all of that into who he is and that's what makes his story interesting.

And what will make this story even more interesting is seeing how those three Intents inside him will battle one another as he unites more pieces unto himself. So his story is far from over.

 

Edited by insert_anagram_here
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6 hours ago, insert_anagram_here said:

Anyway, I think that Dalinar is just the right type of character to have high expectations of and, as the story stands, the most likely to ascend.

While I think in this exact phrase "Broken One" refers to Odium, I do agree that all Shards are broken. They are broken, because they are separate from one another. As Hoid said, you can't pull someone apart, emotion by emotion. All Shards are part of One. When they're separate...it's not a good thing. For all of them, no just for "evil" Shards like Ruin and Odium. For Honor and Cultivation either. That's why I liked "reforging of Adonalsium" scenario. I thought it makes a lot of sense.

I used to have very high expectations for Dalinar. Unfortunately, I think it won't happen. Sanderson never said anything about Dalinar's role beyond SA, so I think this is unlikely to happen.

And for me wasting Dalinar for another cliched and stupid  "heroic sacrifice", if this is the case, would be a terrible writing. There so many potential developments for Dalinar. All so interesting and so much better than this. Wasting Dalinar...would be just so sad. Not only because I admire him as a person, but also, because this would be a waste potential of an interesting character.

 

Edited by LerasiumMistborn
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9 hours ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

Dalinar isn't allowed to get more than a handful of chapters per book.

I'm not sure where you're getting this.  Dalinar had 28 chapters in Way of Kings, 19 chapters in Words of Radiance, and 45 chapters in Oathbringer.  That seems like a lot more than a "handful."  For the series as a whole, he is third in chapter/word count, with Kaladin in first and Shallan in second.  It's no coincidence that they're in that order because that's the order of the books.  As each flashback character gets their own book, they become more of a focus of the series.  

 

5 hours ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

he always RAFOs such questions, which means "yes" or "no"

6 hours ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

Trying to avoid it, Brandon often warns people what to expect or not expect. Like, warned people not to expect Avengers type of crossover in his books. He warned not to expect many information about Heralds until the second half of Stormlight. And things like this...He also shoots down particular theories, when people think into wrong direction. He confirmed that Eshonai won't come back. And so on. 

RAFO does not mean yes or no.  It means no comment.  

He generally avoids confirming/shooting down theories.  How long did he talk about "the man called Taln"?  It was only a few months ago that he finally confirmed that Hoid was, in fact, a Mistborn - almost three years after Mistborn: Secret History came out.  Even your example of Eshonai only came last year - four years after Words of Radiance.  

 

2 hours ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

the fact that Sanderson himself considers Dalinar to be a character for the first half of Stormlight only. So, him playing a role beyond SA and in the whole SA series is technically impossible or, at least, not very likely. Unfortunately

Where are you getting this?  I don't remember Brandon saying anything like this.  

In fact, he's said that he still considers the front five PoV characters to be main characters in the back five, although the focus, of course, will be on the new PoV characters.  

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It would be cool if this didn't turn into another "I have secret info about Dalinar's fututre" thread.

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1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Dalinar had 19 chapters in Words of Radiance

This isn't true. He has 19 povs, not chapters. Pov could mean just a little paragraph in a long chapter with multiple-character-povs. Dalinar has 4 or 5 individual chapters in Words. That's not a joke. He has two chapters in part 1, and one chapter in part 4. And a few povs in part 5. That's it.

1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

For the series as a whole, he is third in chapter/word count, with Kaladin in first and Shallan in second.  It's no coincidence that they're in that order because that's the order of the books.  As each flashback character gets their own book, they become more of a focus of the series.  

But only book with Dalinar as a main character is Oathbringer. He has a little role in book 4. Yes, he has only book with flashbacks, but his overall role in the series is very small (especially if compare with other characters).

1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

He generally avoids confirming/shooting down theories. 

But he tends to reduce people's expectations, if needs. With Dalinar, he refuses to clarify things.

1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Where are you getting this?  I don't remember Brandon saying anything like this.  

In fact, he's said that he still considers the front five PoV characters to be main characters in the back five, although the focus, of course, will be on the new PoV characters.  

Did Sanderson ever said: "Dalinar will have a role in the second half of SA and beyond?" No, he didn't. That's why I said he most likely won't. 

In your WoB he says that characters will die, and those, who survive will appear in the second half. Guess who will die, considering there's a time skip between the books. Maybe he just doesn't want to give spoilers. Maybe this is because Dalinar will die. I think he will die, because characters like Dalinar never lives. Never.

1 hour ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

It would be cool if this didn't turn into another "I have secret info about Dalinar's fututre" thread.

I merely stated that Sanderson never mentioned Dalinar's future after book 5. You can interpret it as you feel is the right interpretation, but for me it means that Dalinar has no future after book 5.

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Dalinar is by far the most fleshed out character in SA right now. Kaladin, Shallan, and Vin come in close seconds, but Dalinar feels human to me. The other feel like really good characters, but Dalinar feels real. I do not think that Dalinar will ascend like Sazed, I think he might hand Honor over to the Stormfather and remain a bondsmith. Dalinar is the kind of guy who would not want that amount of responsibility nor would he want to give up his family. The Stormfather Bondsmith would then be able to use Honor's power, but with out having the Shardic downsides. They can make Honorblades, Heralds, and heal spren blade. They could also prevent the Singers from becoming Fused and be able to destroy Unmade.

It could also be that a large portion of Team Radiant takes up Honor as a group and uses that to imprison Odium again. They would have the power of a shard, only with more minds that can use more of its power. That would go a long way in overpowering Odium because Team Radiant could access vastly more amount of Honor's investure because they have more minds using the power, sort of like Autonomy and her Avatars. Either option would lead to a ton of new story potential.

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On 2/21/2019 at 4:04 AM, MistboreD said:

So, I've been thinking. The deeper we get into Cosmere the more important and larger than life Dalinar becomes. In Oathbringer we see him managing to gather enough power (presumably through his bond with the Stormfather and Connection to Honor's remnants) to force Honor's Perpendicularity. And he is only on his Third Ideal now...Can only imagine what is in store for him.

A lot of people seem to think that Dalinar is going to reforge Honor's Shard (maybe under different name/Intend of Unity). Dalinar is also very important to Brandon. So my question is, do you think Dalinar could become something more relevant to the rest of the Cosmere? Via Ascension to Honor he can actually become very important for the larger Cosmere narrative, and we've already seen some characters (particularly in Mistborn)  becoming very Cosmere-relevant past their orginal role. Do you think Dalinar might be headed in a similar direction?

I love Dalinar and was very afraid he would die in the front 5 since he was already an older man and his book was originally #5. I was very worried for him in OB until "So what's the plan?" and he looks down to see Lift by his side. I knew he would be Ok and that's one of my favorite moments in the series.

I don't know about him lasting beyond SA. He's sort of the obvious choice (to quote the Monster from LOST) for ascending and he already has started to "Dalinar was not supposed to Ascend" - Odium Ch. 122 OB. This makes me think he won't end book 10 Ascended 

Mistborn spoiler

Spoiler

like Vin didn't end up being the hero of ages. Although, Brandon might not want to make the ending of SA too much like MB. 

Jasnah would be a very Brandon choice for leaving book 10 as a Shard Vessel. The atheist becomes a god (of sorts) and she is penciled in as Book 10 flashback character. It's probably a fool's errand to  guess what twists Brandon has planned.  

LOST spoiler:

Spoiler

 

LOCKE: So it's you.

JACK DALINAR: Yeah. It's me.

LOCKE: Jacob Brandon being who he is, I expected to be a little more surprised. You're sort of the obvious choice, don't you think? 

http://eunkihong1124.wixsite.com/lilylibrary/single-post/2016/1/24/LOST-The-End-Jack-vs-Lock-conversation

 

 

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21 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

I love Dalinar and was very afraid he would die in the front 5 since he was already an older man and his book was originally #5. I was very worried for him in OB until "So what's the plan?" and he looks down to see Lift by his side. I knew he would be Ok and that's one of my favorite moments in the series.

I don't know about him lasting beyond SA. He's sort of the obvious choice (to quote the Monster from LOST) for ascending and he already has started to "Dalinar was not supposed to Ascend" - Odium Ch. 122 OB. This makes me think he won't end book 10 Ascended 

Mistborn spoiler

  Hide contents

like Vin didn't end up being the hero of ages. Although, Brandon might not want to make the ending of SA too much like MB. 

Jasnah would be a very Brandon choice for leaving book 10 as a Shard Vessel. The atheist becomes a god (of sorts) and she is penciled in as Book 10 flashback character. It's probably a fool's errand to  guess what twists Brandon has planned.  

LOST spoiler:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

LOCKE: So it's you.

JACK DALINAR: Yeah. It's me.

LOCKE: Jacob Brandon being who he is, I expected to be a little more surprised. You're sort of the obvious choice, don't you think? 

http://eunkihong1124.wixsite.com/lilylibrary/single-post/2016/1/24/LOST-The-End-Jack-vs-Lock-conversation

 

 

Huh, I think what you are describing is more Mistborn-like than Dalinar's Ascension :)

I also don't think it will happen in book 10. Honor, if it were to happen, would be revived in book 5.

Since Honor is splintered, un-splintering him would be something that never happened yet in Cosmere.

Jasnah as Honor...no? She has no "Connection" to Honor. As an Elsecaller, she is more of Cultivation. Right now Cultivation has a Vessel.

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1 hour ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

This isn't true. He has 19 povs, not chapters. Pov could mean just a little paragraph in a long chapter with multiple-character-povs. Dalinar has 4 or 5 individual chapters in Words. That's not a joke. He has two chapters in part 1, and one chapter in part 4. And a few povs in part 5. That's it.

You're right.  That was an oversight on my part.  Word count is probably a better metric (because mutli-POV chapters are common), although I will note that Dalinar has more individual chapters in his book than Kaladin or Shallan have in theirs.  

 

1 hour ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

But only book with Dalinar as a main character is Oathbringer. He has a little role in book 4. Yes, he has only book with flashbacks, but his overall role in the series is very small (especially if compare with other characters).

Not sure where you're getting this.  By word count, Dalinar is in third place (in a series with 10 main characters).  He has 21% of all Stormlight words compared to Kaladin's 30% and Shallan's 26%.  He has almost 4 times more than the next place character (Adolin).  He has 7 or 8 times more than the next place flashback character (depending on whether you lump Eshonai and Venli together).  

So, volume-wise, he clearly has a major role in the series, especially if "compared with other characters."  

If you're talking story-wise, well I think Dalinar is the most likely candidate if you had to pick just 1 main character.  He's the bonded to the most powerful spren around and Connected to the remnants of a Shard of Adonalsium.  He's the leader of the entire human coalition.  He's going toe to toe with Odium.  He even Ascended (to some degree)!

Plus, he's frequently Brandon's pick of favorite character.  

 

1 hour ago, LerasiumMistborn said:
3 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

He generally avoids confirming/shooting down theories.

But he tends to reduce people's expectations, if needs. With Dalinar, he refuses to clarify things.

He does not "tend to reduce people's expectations."  There are tons and tons of theories and speculations here on the Shard about what's going to happen to various characters.  Brandon very, very rarely weighs in on them.  I listed a bunch of examples of him taking years to confirm things that were fairly obvious in the books.  Almost all questions about the future of characters' plotlines are RAFO'd (which means "no comment").  

 

1 hour ago, LerasiumMistborn said:
3 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Where are you getting this?  I don't remember Brandon saying anything like this.  

In fact, he's said that he still considers the front five PoV characters to be main characters in the back five, although the focus, of course, will be on the new PoV characters.  

Did Sanderson ever said: "Dalinar will have a role in the second half of SA and beyond?" No, he didn't. That's why I said he most likely won't. 

In your WoB he says that characters will die, and those, who survive will appear in the second half. Guess who will die, considering there's a time skip between the books. Maybe he just doesn't want to give spoilers. Maybe this is because Dalinar will die. I think he will die, because characters like Dalinar never lives. Never.

I've now caught up on the various threads where you're bemoaning the (purely speculative) fate of Dalinar.  I didn't realize that your reasoning was so specious:

  • "Brandon hasn't confirmed Dalinar will survive to Book 6" -> "Dalinar must die before Book 6"

By that logic everyone will die before Book 6, because Brandon has never confirmed that any character will survive.  

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35 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

You're right.  That was an oversight on my part.  Word count is probably a better metric (because mutli-POV chapters are common), although I will note that Dalinar has more individual chapters in his book than Kaladin or Shallan have in theirs.  

 

Not sure where you're getting this.  By word count, Dalinar is in third place (in a series with 10 main characters).  He has 21% of all Stormlight words compared to Kaladin's 30% and Shallan's 26%.  He has almost 4 times more than the next place character (Adolin).  He has 7 or 8 times more than the next place flashback character (depending on whether you lump Eshonai and Venli together).  

So, volume-wise, he clearly has a major role in the series, especially if "compared with other characters."  

If you're talking story-wise, well I think Dalinar is the most likely candidate if you had to pick just 1 main character.  He's the bonded to the most powerful spren around and Connected to the remnants of a Shard of Adonalsium.  He's the leader of the entire human coalition.  He's going toe to toe with Odium.  He even Ascended (to some degree)!

Plus, he's frequently Brandon's pick of favorite character.  

 

He does not "tend to reduce people's expectations."  There are tons and tons of theories and speculations here on the Shard about what's going to happen to various characters.  Brandon very, very rarely weighs in on them.  I listed a bunch of examples of him taking years to confirm things that were fairly obvious in the books.  Almost all questions about the future of characters' plotlines are RAFO'd (which means "no comment").  

 

I've now caught up on the various threads where you're bemoaning the (purely speculative) fate of Dalinar.  I didn't realize that your reasoning was so specious:

  • "Brandon hasn't confirmed Dalinar will survive to Book 6" -> "Dalinar must die before Book 6"

By that logic everyone will die before Book 6, because Brandon has never confirmed that any character will survive.  

In fact, he's said that just because someone is a flashback character in the backhalf, doesn't mean they'd actually survive to that book, like Eshonai. No one is guaranteed a spot in the back half.

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1 hour ago, MistboreD said:

Huh, I think what you are describing is more Mistborn-like than Dalinar's Ascension :)

I also don't think it will happen in book 10. Honor, if it were to happen, would be revived in book 5.

Since Honor is splintered, un-splintering him would be something that never happened yet in Cosmere.

Jasnah as Honor...no? She has no "Connection" to Honor. As an Elsecaller, she is more of Cultivation. Right now Cultivation has a Vessel.

I think some combination of Shards, although that's what happened in Mistborn :). Odium on it's own is a problem "god's own divine hatred separated from the virtues that gave it context" WoR Ch. 71 Vigil

Odium + Honor = Justice would help address it. Attaching that Hatred to a code of behavior.

I wrote a post that I can't find now pointing out how often justice is referenced in relation to Dalinar.

When Kaladin is in the slave cart on his way to the shattered plains one slave says "perhaps we'll find justice here". Kaladin meets Dalinar out on the plains. -WoK Ch. 4

Dalinar confronts Sadeas after his betrayal in Ch. 69 Justice. They meet on a giant Thath glyph Navani burned which means justice. "Thath. Justice." 

After Dalinar beats up Elhokar he explains how things are going to be different with Dalinar in charge "We're going to turn Alethkar into a place that men will envy again ... because people here are safe and sound and because justice reigns" WoK Ch. 69 Justice. 

"Alethkar was justice." Dalinar in WoR Ch. 5

"If you really believe in justice, you---" Kaladin to Dalinar WoR Ch. 22 

"All Kaladin had to do was lead the king into a specific spot ... that, and betray Dalinar's trust in him. And if I don't help kill the king won't I be betraying justice and honor?" - WoR Ch. 68  Betraying Dalinar is betraying Justice. 

"There was no Almighty watching. If there had been - and if he'd had a shred of justice to him -Honor would have long ago purged this world of the fraud that was Dalinar Kholin" - Dalinar thinks in OB Ch. 86

"Justice is that what you brought to those people?" Dalinar asks himself OB Ch. 86

Of course Kaladin, Szeth and Nale Herald of Justice talk a lot about justice as well. Dalinar seems to be associated with it the most. 

Edited by Child of Hodor
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6 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

Of course Kaladin, Szeth and Nale Herald of Justice talk a lot about justice as well. Dalinar seems to be associated with it the most. 

In Szeth's case, he decided to seek justice in Dalinar too.

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I honestly don't know what Dalinar's future is going to be, exactly. All I know is, given the story so far, Brandon's saying that Dalinar was his first character, one of his favorite characters, and the heart and soul of the series, it's going to be something unexpected and glorious.

Edited by RShara
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25 minutes ago, Winds Alight said:

In Szeth's case, he decided to seek justice in Dalinar too.

Good call! :)

Of course a problem with O + H = J is how is Justice a combo of shards when it is clearly an aspect of Honor already. But, see, the thing about that is ... uh, maybe ... 

OK, maybe, combining them just emphasizes aspects of what's already there over other aspects. Especially with Shards that go together naturally:

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

I think that if personalities had been different, Honor and Odium, there would have been a very natural pairing, not that they’re opposites but they would have attracted. [...]

https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=Honor+Odium+Personalities

Honor is about keeping your word and following agreed to rules. The radiants bond spren that are a mix of H+C investiture and their whole thing is growing Honor. The more oaths you swear and keep to the more power you obtain.  

H+O  becomes more about "what's to be done with people who break those rules?"  It was a consideration for Honor on his own but now it's a point of emphasis. H+O Teach with the stick instead of H+C teach with the carrot.  

Odium is hatred for someone as a result of their actions, which then becomes hatred of others whose actions BROKE THE RULES I CLEARLY EXPLAINED AT THE START OF THE GAME, BRAD!! DO NOT PASS GO DO NOT COLLECT $200!!! PUT, BRAD, PUT THAT CARD BACK IN THE PILE! 

All that said:

17 minutes ago, RShara said:

I honestly don't know what Dalianr's future is going to be, exactly. All I know is, given the story so far, Brandon's saying that Dalinar was his first character, one of his favorite characters, and the heart and soul of the series, it's going to be something unexpected and glorious.

Agreed! :) 

Edited by Child of Hodor
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22 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Word count is probably a better metric. By word count, Dalinar is in third place 

He has much less words than Kaladin and Shallan, And the "rift" between them will grow bigger and bigger, as they will continue to have big narratives in any given books ,most likely, and Dalinar's role in book 4 is very small and so on. If we look at the whole series, Dalinar's overall role within the series is very small.

22 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

If you're talking story-wise, well I think Dalinar is the most likely candidate if you had to pick just 1 main character.  He's the bonded to the most powerful spren around and Connected to the remnants of a Shard of Adonalsium.  He's the leader of the entire human coalition.  He's going toe to toe with Odium.  He even Ascended (to some degree)!

Sure, but I have a feeling/fear that all of it is just a misleading and a trick. A joke. Illusion of Dalinar's importance. Sanderson wrote it just to fool readers expectations. Wrote Dalinar as if he were important only to waste and kill him and pull a "twist". I think this is a bad writing. I thing this is a broken promise to readers. Normally, such narrative (like Dalinar's) would get a logical development and resolution, but I fear that Sanderson won't do it with Dalinar, and that all of it was for nothing.

My personal desires were: within the cast Dalinar is the most...cosmere-oriented character. He's also very thoughtful. He wants to understand how this universe "works". He wants to learn more, to understand things. To find God. It would make a lot of sense if he were the character to explore the universe. It makes sense both character-wise and story-wise. But I'm afraid that Sanderson won't write it, and waste the character instead. 

 

22 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Plus, he's frequently Brandon's pick of favorite character.  

I would prefer him to demonstrate his love for Dalinar in the books, not in the interviews. Looking into the books I don't get the impression that he loves Dalinar or even cares for him.

22 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

He does not "tend to reduce people's expectations." 

My point is: many people have very, very high expectations for Dalinar, because of the things you mentioned above. If those doesn't happen, people may be very disappointed.

22 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

By that logic everyone will die before Book 6, because Brandon has never confirmed that any character will survive.  

Yes, but Dalinar is "this older character within the cast who always dies in any given book". His chances for survival are extremely low, except for the "he's supposed to Ascend" scenario, but as I said, I fear it'll be wasted for nothing...

 

21 hours ago, RShara said:

I honestly don't know what Dalinar's future is going to be, exactly. All I know is, given the story so far, Brandon's saying that Dalinar was his first character, one of his favorite characters, and the heart and soul of the series, it's going to be something unexpected and glorious.

I just hope this "unexpected" doesn't mean "everyone expects Dalinar to have a big and important role, so let's just waste him instead, this is so unexpected!"...

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