so i take it the trell thing?

[luluzulu]

On 3/21/2019 at 3:12 PM, ILuvHats said:

Why do you think this, out of curiosity?

Probably because red indicates corrupted investiture, and as humans on Scadrial are made from both Ruin and Preservation's investiture, it makes sense that their eyes wouldn't turn red unless it was investiture from a different shard that had been mixed in. Someone ask Brandon about it at the next signing!

[Calderis]

On 3/21/2019 at 3:12 PM, ILuvHats said:

Why do you think this, out of curiosity?

Sorry for the delayed response. 

General cosmere spoilers to follow

Spoiler

I think that Autonomy did help Odium against Dominion and Devotion, or at least an Avatar did. 

I go into it a bit in this thread. 

But basically I think the origination of the derethi legends of the Svrakiss originate with Autonomy. 

This is by no means a confirmation, but the idea started from this WoB. 

Quote

Questioner

Miles Hundredlives, is he possessed by a svrakiss from Elantris?

Brandon Sanderson

*long pause* That's a RAFO, you are onto something... I wouldn't say possessed, but influenced by something is definitely a possibility. You are not 100% on.

Salt Lake City Comic-Con 2014 (Sept. 4, 2014)

 

As to why the eyes would still be red, all matter on Scadrial is invested by R&P

Quote

Questioner

Can Odium or any other [Shards] edit text like Ruin could? ...Or is that a special Ruin thing.  

Brandon Sanderson

This is possible for others as well. The trick about it is, [Ruin] saturated everything on Scadrial in a way that not all Shards saturate their planets.  

Questioner

Okay, what do you mean "saturate"?

Brandon Sanderson

Creating it, does that make sense? And so this was partially an aspect that everything on that planet, every atom was, y'know, had him in it... I mean he didn't create the atoms, let's say that, but yeah... The whole planet existence and particularly the people on it are [Ruin], attuned to [Ruin].

Shadows of Self London UK signing (Oct. 19, 2015)

So even a corpse is going to carry the Investiture of R&P to be "co-opted" 

[+ILuvHats]

I’m aware of the Svrakiss theory. I was wondering more why you thought it was a corpse being possessed instead of a living person.

[Calderis]

59 minutes ago, ILuvHats said:

I’m aware of the Svrakiss theory. I was wondering more why you thought it was a corpse being possessed instead of a living person.

Because "possession" in the Cosmere seems to require an inroad. Either a spike, or an acceptance. 

I highly doubt that that thing bothered with getting permission, and I don't even know if a spike would be capable of that level of control through in habitation rather than just what we see with Koloss and Marsh. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Calderis

[Quantus]

17 hours ago, Calderis said:

Because "possession" in the Cosmere seems to require an inroad. Either a spike, or an acceptance. 

I highly doubt that that thing bothered with getting permission, and I don't even know if a spike would be capable of that level of control through in habitation rather than just what we see with Koloss and Marsh. 

The third Inroad is full-on Madness, yes?  Miles might well qualify for that, especially if there's any accumulated Spiritweb damage from all his Healing (or if he's ever had to heal direct spiritual damage).

Tangential question: Would savantism qualify as spiritual damage enough to make it easier for a Shard to influence the person?

[+Child of Hodor]

On 2/19/2019 at 8:22 AM, Quantus said:

Yup, it's a Shard, or at least it has a Godmetal associated with it.  It's also Shard we know about, and at the time the list was Devotion, Dominion, Preservation, Ruin, Odium, Honor, Cultivation, Endowment and Autonomy. 

We know specifically that it isnt Preservation or Ruin (Or Harmony), that it isnt Endowment, and that Odium is too Imprisoned during Era 2 to be doing things on Scadrial, and Cultivation is also rather occupied with the same conflict. 

Brandon changed it, now Era 2 take place after SA front 5. It could be a Roshar shard or a new combination of them depending on what happens in the next two books.  "Footnote: Brandon has since revised the timeline, Mistborn Era 2 now takes place after Stormlight 5." https://wob.coppermind.net/events/192/#e4144

Still, strongest theory is that it is an avatar of Autonomy, imo. The whole freedom from Harmony thing Bleeder was on about, she wanted to set Wax "free", killed herself rather than be controlled. 

[Wandering Investor]

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

Tangential question: Would savantism qualify as spiritual damage enough to make it easier for a Shard to influence the person?

It might be possible. I think it would depend on the type of savantism you're getting, but hard to be sure. The closest case I'm aware of was Spook cracking his soul, but whether that was from Tin savantism, or just from the stress/hemalurgy he had been going through, isn't clear.

[Quantus]

5 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

It might be possible. I think it would depend on the type of savantism you're getting, but hard to be sure. The closest case I'm aware of was Spook cracking his soul, but whether that was from Tin savantism, or just from the stress/hemalurgy he had been going through, isn't clear.

Part of why I ask is that it would have implications with the soulcaster savants over on Roshar.

 

Yup, I posted that a bit later:

On 2/19/2019 at 4:22 PM, Quantus said:

As an addendum to what I said earlier:

I still think that Autonomy (or an avatar of Autonomy) is by a wide margin the most likely suspect, but it turns out there is a WOB that Alloy of Law takes place after Book 5 of Stormlight. So if things go really (REALLY) wrong for our Radiant friends, Book Five could see Odium released to go cause trouble elsewhere.  But were that to happen I can't see what story would be left to tell in Books 6-10. 

Also, I kinda like the possibility that Sazed has gone entirely bonkers and "Trell" is a splinter personality representing a Discord persona; not sure how plausible that is, but a Jekyll & Hyde deity would be one hell of a narrative premise.

 

Quote

 

Questioner

Does Alloy of Law take place after the whole Stormlight sequence?

Brandon Sanderson

I have not nailed down the exact timing, but it’s at least after book 5 of Stormlight. Because I haven’t nailed down exactly how long

Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Quantus

[Calderis]

@Quantus personally, I don't believe so. Savantism seems to be more a warping, stretching and bending the shape of the Spiritual Aspect, rather than the cracking induced through trauma and psychosis.

There are still definitely mental effects but the soul itself seems to be wholly intact, just changed. 

[Quantus]

3 hours ago, Calderis said:

@Quantus personally, I don't believe so. Savantism seems to be more a warping, stretching and bending the shape of the Spiritual Aspect, rather than the cracking induced through trauma and psychosis.

There are still definitely mental effects but the soul itself seems to be wholly intact, just changed. 

I could get behind that.  There are definitely extreme mental consequences, with an addiction to the power itself seeming to be relatively common (with both Roshar and Scadrial versions).  That could qualify as the Trauma Cracks, but that would make them more of a secondary consequence rather than fundamental to Savantism itself.  The Rosharan version is the one that seems a more extreme, and I go the sense that it's more commonly lethal, but again that may be secondary to an addiction to the power. 

[+Child of Hodor]

12 minutes ago, Quantus said:

I could get behind that.  There are definitely extreme mental consequences, with an addiction to the power itself seeming to be relatively common (with both Roshar and Scadrial versions).  That could qualify as the Trauma Cracks, but that would make them more of a secondary consequence rather than fundamental to Savantism itself.  The Rosharan version is the one that seems a more extreme, and I go the sense that it's more commonly lethal, but again that may be secondary to an addiction to the power. 

I always thought of it as spirit web mutation or like someone who eats nothing but carrots and their skin turns orange, but their soul turns orange instead. Brandon seems to be contemplating changing savantism a bit. He feels he's overused it in Era 2. You might say he's become a savantism savant . 

One WoB he says it's not spiritual damage, but spiritual drift.

Another WoB in late 2016 he tells Argent that he is rethinking savantism because it is straying too far from his original intent with it. 

Another WoB the questioner asks if certain savants can heal spiritual cracks that were created by becoming a Mistborn or similar magic user with trauma as a pre-requisite (most of them). He says they are theorizing in the right direction. 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/259/#e8742

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Healing doesn't have to do with it because-- in cosmere terms there's nothing wrong with your body, your spirit is actually drifting, and so it's not hurting you physically by what's happening with the magics. So it's not the healing but if you have an active bond with a spren it takes a little different path. Let's just say, in simple terms--

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/309/#e8115

Brandon Sanderson

Evgeni,

So here's the problem. The more I dig into savants in the later outlines, the more I feel that I'm in a dangerous area--in that I'm disobeying their original intention. (Which is that using the power so much that it permeates your soul can be dangerous, a kind of uncontrolled version of a spren bond.)

And so, I don't want to let myself just start making people savants right and left. It needs to be a specific thing. Wax is the troubling one, as I have him burning so much steel that he's well on his way, but isn't showing any side effects. If I'm going to give him savant-like abilities, he needs savant-like consequences.

That's the danger, just falling back on savanthood to do some of the things I want, so often that it undermines the actual point and purpose of them in the cosmere lore.

So if I backpedal, it will be to contain this and point myself the right way, sharply curtailing my desire to make people savants without their savanthood being an intrinsic part of their story and conflict in life. (Like it was for Spook, and is for soulcasting savants on Roshar.)

Feel free to share this.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/385/#e12574

Wyndlerunner [PENDING REVIEW]

You've mentioned in the past aluminum savants being able to somewhat heal their spiritweb, healing them of the cracks, sort of healing them of Allomancy. Could a chromium savant do this to other people, kind of like in the Avatar [The Last Airbender] finale where he seals bending?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

I will say RAFO, but I will say you're theorizing along correct directions.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

 

 

[Elegy]

This is the first time I've read of that theory that Trell is actually Sazed's Ruin side hijacking the name of a god he knows to run rampage with it, as a sign of Discord coming through. It really got me thinking. I wouldn't like it though, since Sazed's arc in Hero of Ages was specifically for him to become a person that would be able to hold both Shards as Harmony. That progression would be rendered useless. I don't believe it's true though. We know that the metal at the end of SoS belongs to Trell, and it's an unknown metal. If it had something to do with Harmony, it would be known. It has to be a Shard outside of Scadrial.

Although I think the Discord thing would have been the one thing that I wouldn't have expected at all. Generally, concerning Trell, I've come to the point of "Come on, it's not a secret anymore. We already know. Who else could it be?"

[Kingsdaughter613]

You mean ‘we crazy sharders know.’ The average reader has never heard of Bavadin, much less her avatars.