Italik

What was your disappointment in this series?

138 posts in this topic

I assume all people here love The Stormlight Archive. But are there any things that disappointed you or that you want to be different? Maybe you would prefer the narrative to move towards different direction? Or just some minor/major things you don't like. Please, share. 

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Welcome to the shard Italik! 

this might be an unpopular opinion, but I didn't really like Shallan's parts in Wok and the second half of OB, I'm not sure why they were just really slow for me, on rereads I'll skip some of Shallan's chapters because they're to slow.

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UUUUUGGGGHHHHH!!!!! This is the only reason I prefer Mistborn over SA. (Skyward is actually my personal favorite)

I COULDN'T STAND THE INTERLUDES, DALINAR'S, AND SHALLAN'S PARTS! UGH! I JUST SKIPPED EVERYTHING BUT KALADIN, SZETH, AND THE BATTLE OF THE TOWER. EVERYTHING ELSE WAS MIND NUMBING TALK. Loved Words of Radiance, but kind of hated Way of Kings.

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I really like the interludes, because I like the fresh characters and they're perspectives, and the different cultures and things. I love Dalinars parts in WoK, sure they were slower than Kaladins, but they were so interesting, plus I just love Dalinar

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Many things. So many thing in this series don't work for me and feel wrong. It's easier to say that the whole series is one big disappointment. I liked how it started, but further it goes the more I understand those books are not for me.

The biggest flaw is the structure of those books. The structure that doesn't allow anyone, who isn't Kaladin and Shallan, to have a narrative. Some characters get their own books with flashbacks, but this is the only place where they are allowed to have a narrative. While Kaladin and Shallan aka two main characters of the series always have high word count, many chapters and ton of "screen time" in any given book. They don't allow other characters to shine. 

I don't find the idea of focusing such big books on two characters exclusively. I understand, Kaladin is Sanderson's favorite character, but I've never seen any other author who puts his personal preferences above all else, focuses all his attention on his favorites and dismisses everyone else. As a result, those people who aren't invested in Kaladin and Shallan have nothing left for themselves. Unfortunately, I'm this person. Things I like are either on the background or thrown from the story completely. 

And many other things. How Sanderson treats Dalinar is one of the biggest complains. 

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I read all the words (except a few interludes) in WoR and OB. My worst fear for Stormlight 4 is that Kaladin won't be featured in a part.

And many other things. How Sanderson treats Dalinar is one of the biggest complains. 

What do you mean?

Edited by beantheboy12
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Interludes. 

When I reread OB, I skip most of the interludes (execpt for the important ones)

While I am bothered by some of the veiwpoints, I understand their necessity. 

I look forward to each in its own way.

Kaladin: Kaladin and Syl funny moments (bridge four as an added bonus)

Shallan: Witty remarks gang (Pattern is pretty funny too) 

Dalinar: Reflective and refreshing from the others internal struggles. 

And Adolin's veiwpoint is always refreshing because A. he's gonna fight, or B. he'll do something cool and/or funny.

I guess whatI'm trying to say is that I'm not really bothered too much.

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49 minutes ago, beantheboy12 said:

My worst fear for Stormlight 4 is that Kaladin won't be featured in a part.

Don't worry, Sanderson said Kaladin has a big role in book 4. As always. 

However to make more room for his beloved Kaladin and others (as if Kaladin didn't have the biggest "amount of screen time" before...) , he decided to throw Dalinar away from the story. You should be happy. Though those who love Dalinar should live with their favorite character not being featured not only in a part, but in three or four parts. But there's no place for someone like me in this community, I understand.

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Aw, don't be like that. I just live for Kaladin "Screen Time." Nobody hates you for liking Dalinar, though that kinda sucks that he's being thrown away after flipping ascending.

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6 minutes ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

Don't worry, Sanderson said Kaladin has a big role in book 4. As always. 

However to make more room for his beloved Kaladin and others (as if Kaladin didn't have the biggest "amount of screen time" before...) , he decided to throw Dalinar away from the story. You should be happy. Though those who love Dalinar should live with their favorite character not being featured not only in a part, but in three or four parts. But there's no place for someone like me in this community, I understand.

Is there a WoB for that?

B)

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While there are a few minor points I didn't like as much, the only real "disappointment" was Shallan's parts in WoK. I didn't like her back then and skimmed through some of her chapters. She grew on me during WoR, so now I'm all okay.

@LerasiumMistborn
What exactly do you mean concerning Dalinar?
Is there any WoB that he won't have as big a role in coming books? Or in what way was he "thrown away from the story"?

Edited by Winds Alight
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According to Brandon, Dalinar is his favorite SA character.

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There are a couple of WoBs that indicate Dalinar will have a smaller role in book 4, but I could not find anything that says how small his role will be. Also, he will have a large role in book 5.

Quote

sv15249

Does it mean that we shouldn't expect any explanations or clues about what happened with Dalinar at the end of Oathbringer before book 5?

Ask just to know if we'll know more in book 4 or we'll have to wait a bit longer.To avoid false expectations:)

Brandon Sanderson

There will be explanations and clues, but I would anticipate more Dalinar in book 5 than in book 4.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Books 5 will have a lot of Dalinar. Once it is out, you'll be able to see why it could have been a Bondsmith book--but I think it's better this way, with Book 3 being the Bondsmith book.

LoneWarmonger

Thank you, Mr Sanderson, I'm pleased with the choice, but I guess, I just wanted to learn more about Dalinar's powers in his book, he's my favorite character. Even after HIS book, his abilities are a mystery. But I'm exited to hear I'll get more in the future. Please, don't keep Dalinar on the background, he's the best.

Brandon Sanderson

Note that book four may see less of him, as he steps back a little (like each of the characters will for a book or two here and there) but book five has him as a focus again.

I can understand that people experience things differently, but I don't get the disappointment. Kaladin's part in OB was not as huge as in other books either and I am sure that Shallan will have to step back a little at some point as well.

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7 hours ago, beantheboy12 said:

Aw, don't be like that. I just live for Kaladin "Screen Time." Nobody hates you for liking Dalinar, though that kinda sucks that he's being thrown away after flipping ascending.

I honestly don't care if someone hates me or disagrees with me. I'll however admit, it's gut-wrenching to read complains about not enough Kaladin. He has the higher word count out of all characters Sanderson ever wrote. His amount of screen time...it's not big, it's enormous. And Sanderson will continue to write Kaladin in any given book. He will get more and more. And that's still not enough for some people...Seeing how someone complains that Kaladin skips one part of the book, while Dalinar skips entire books, is hard. Dalinar has five individual chapters in words of radiance. Five. He disappears for 800 pages and then shows up again only to have one small chapter. Book 4 (and 5 most likely) will be the same. Kaladin's narrative is twice what Dalinar is allowed to have in any given books. But others (on the other fan site) made it clear: I have no right to complain about it as long as I'm not allowed to criticize any aspect of Sanderson's books (well, as long as The Main Main Character Kaladin has "enough" page time). Shut up and take what he gives you. Ok, I understand I'm not welcomed here, but I still think I'm allowed to voice my thoughts loudly. 

 

7 hours ago, equinox said:

I can understand that people experience things differently, but I don't get the disappointment. Kaladin's part in OB was not as huge as in other books either and I am sure that Shallan will have to step back a little at some point as well.

No. Kaladin nor Shallan never had and will never have such a small role. Kaladin's part in Oathbringer was huge. He has about 75K words according to statistical analysis and a role in 4 parts of the book (however in part 2 where he has no viewpoints he's heavily featured through third person perspective). Just compare it with Dalinar in Words of radiance. He had about 30K words and five chapters. Upcoming books will be the same. Shallan also has a huge role in Way of Kings with 60K words, twice as big as Dalinar in Words.

No, those two never leave front stage. Only those two characters have a privilege of having narrative. I just though...maybe I was wrong. Maybe Dalinar will gain some importance after Oathbringer, but nope, he's the same background character. He has a small role in first five books. He's obviously not in the second half of the series. It's not disappointing for me, it's heart-breaking.

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I don't think, just judging by page time is the right way to go when analyzing the "importance" of a character in a narrative. But that is just my opinion.

Edited by SLNC
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I honestly don't see where you get the impression of being "not welcome" here.

Yeah, it sucks if your favourite character has less screen-time than another, I experienced that before. In SA I'm lucky because Kaladin is my favourite character EVER and yeah, I will never get enough of him, even if I had ten books on him alone.
But Dalinar being a background character is a bit of an exaggeration. He is among the main five. Word count is not everything.

Edited by Winds Alight
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(For reference, I'm no Kaladin fanboy, he is fine, but just that)

While statistics is great and all (its about 50% of my job), I think that your strict analysis has a flaw @LerasiumMistborn. It sounds like you assume that screen time necessarily implies import or growth. In OB, Kaladin is on screen the most, but undergoes much less growth than in books one and two. He acts in some spots as almost filler, for the dramatic timing of Dalinar. X amount of time has to pass before Dalinar gets his next memory? Let's watch Kaladin do some action stuff and resolve some old plotlines. Shallan definitely does the same in OB, with much of her viewpoint being a rehash of the same issues. 

You also have to have realized, there is always a main character. These aren't strict GRRM or Tolkien, Sanderson always has a main focal point. But like Vin and Sazed, the former getting more screen time doesn't make the latter less important.

If I had advice to give, it'd be to pull back and be a little more cerebral. Look at the Kaladin sections and woder why they are there. Might make them more fun?

As for my gripe, it relates to the dropped Listeners. I wish they had seen a more graceful descent into storage, but there is already a thread somewhere about that.

Edited by Config2
Later to latter. Also got ninja'd.
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@LerasiumMistborn As I said above, I understand that different readers experience different characters differently and I also understand that some people wish for more viewpoints of certain characters (just thinking about all the Adolin lovers out there. My post was not meant to disencourage you to voice your opinion - I just wanted to add mine. 

However, I really would love to know where you get your information from that says things like "Dalinar skips entire books", "Book 4 (and 5 most likely) will be the same." (Brandon Sanderson explicitly said that Book 5 has him as a focus again), or "He's obviously not in the second half of the series". Regarding the last aspect, I honestly would like to have more Intel on that. Do we have WoB? Otherwise, Dalinar could live to be 100 years old and be there despite the time jumps between books.

Edit: @Config2 Oh yeah. The listeners (including Rlain). I waited for them coming back the whole book. Definitely a minor disappointment for me. And coming back to the main topic of the OP, Amaram's turn was also a minor disappointment for me as I felt it wasn't foreshadowed enough (though some readers pointed out some scenes to me that may help me see it more clearly on my next reread).

Edited by equinox
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The three biggest flaws with SA are (in my opinion):

-The handling of Amaram in OB. I have talked about this before, but he had potential to be great, and was thrown to side, had all his development off-screen, and was then killed off in a boss battle. The arc itself isn’t that bad, but the execution is.

-The fake-deaths. Although he is fixing that one. But the effect of those are showing. It took like three WoBs to convince people about that Eshonais death was for real.

-Kaladin saves the day. This bugged me in WoR, where Kaladin was constantly saving everyone. Brandon fixed that in OB though, by having him be saved. 

As for the ongoing Dalinar debate, I think we could see him appearing in SA5-10 as well. Brandon hasn’t said that he wont be in those. And book 5 will have tons of Dalinar. 

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10 minutes ago, SLNC said:

I don't think, just judging by page time is the right way to go when analyzing the "importance" of a character in a narrative. But that is just my opinion.

Maybe it doesn't. But the thing is I wanted to read about Dalinar. Through his povs. To hear his thoughts, to "sense" his feelings.

5 minutes ago, Config2 said:

It sounds like you assume that screen time necessarily implies import or growth. In OB, Kaladin is on screen the most, but undergoes much less growth than in books one and two.

Same for this. I understand this, but when I love the character, I enjoy reading them even if they basically do nothing. I would be excited to read about my favorite character eating a sandwich, while being bored reading about "not my favorite character" saving the universe. I agree, Kaladin didn't do much in Oathbringer, and yet he got 80K words. Dalinar has 30K in Words and I felt like huge chunks of his story was dropped. 

 

11 minutes ago, Config2 said:

You also have to have realized, there is always a main character. These aren't strict GRRM or Tolkien, Sanderson always has a main focal point. But like Vin and Sazed, the former getting more screen time doesn't make the later less important.

I understand that Kaladin is the main character of the whole series. Of all ten books. I realize it. That's why I said this series in not for me. I understand everything and that's why I won't continue to read this series. For me it ended with Oathbringer.

18 minutes ago, Winds Alight said:

I honestly don't see where you get the impression of being "not welcome" here.
 

Not here. I wrote "on the other site". Reddit, if you're interested. Here, I just don't join the discussion anymore, because I lost all my interest and expectations.

19 minutes ago, Winds Alight said:

I will never get enough of him, even if I had ten books on him alone.

I think this is exactly what you will get. He's the main character of the whole series after all.

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1 minute ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

Maybe it doesn't. But the thing is I wanted to read about Dalinar. Through his povs. To hear his thoughts, to "sense" his feelings.

That is a sentiment, that I can understand.

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19 minutes ago, LerasiumMistborn said:

I understand that Kaladin is the main character of the whole series. Of all ten books. I realize it. That's why I said this series in not for me. I understand everything and that's why I won't continue to read this series. For me it ended with Oathbringer.

That's very sad.
I kiiiiiiinda see where you're coming from, as for me, this character is Kaladin and there's a chance I might drop the books should he die and thus disappear from the books completely. (Though I care enough about many other characters that I would still continue reading, after a looooong period of mourning. I'm way too emotional about fictional deaths lol.)

(Sorry about the misunderstanding with Reddit, I didn't read correctly.)

Edited by Winds Alight
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It makes sense narratively for Dalinar to fade into the background a little, as he's going to be more focused on political stuff, which while important isn't something most readers find as interesting as the more 'hands-on' things.

I like Dalinar as a character a lot, but Stormlight has lots of great characters so I'm not so worried about one or two of them getting less screen time. It just leaves more room for other cool characters like Jasnah and Renarin that we haven't seen much of.

Anyway, my disappointment is that the ending of OB felt a bit rushed and I feel like some plot threads could have got better resolution. (We didn't get to see Shallan's wedding to name a big one).

Edited by CrazyRioter
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30 minutes ago, equinox said:

However, I really would love to know where you get your information from that says things like "Dalinar skips entire books", "Book 4 (and 5 most likely) will be the same." (Brandon Sanderson explicitly said that Book 5 has him as a focus again), or "He's obviously not in the second half of the series". Regarding the last aspect, I honestly would like to have more Intel on that. Do we have WoB? Otherwise, Dalinar could live to be 100 years old and be there despite the time jumps between books.

For me Dalinar's...narrative in Words is an equivalent of no narrative. Five chapters. 30K words. I can't read such a huge book, with 100+ chapters, just for five chapters of Dalinar. That's what I mean by "skips entire books". And well, he isn't in the second half, so he skips books 6-10 completely. Dalinar has a small role in book 4. Sanderson said it. Book 5 is a bit bigger, but not very big too. Even if Dalinar had a big role in book 5, which he hadn't, I decided not to read this book anyway, because this is the book where Dalinar dies. So, book 4 was my last chance to read about this character, and his role in book 4 is a background role. Like in Words or even less. Hence, 5 chapters and 20-30K words.

No way Dalinar doesn't die in book 5. I wanted to believe otherwise, but I guess I'm too old to believe in fairytales.

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Thanks @LerasiumMistborn for your reply. I also expect that not all characters will survive the first five books, but I'll wait for proof (WoB or in-book) until I count someone dead :).

@CrazyRioter I am thankful that all the love triangle resolution and Shadolin's wedding got rushed (I'm just not that into all the romance stuff, but would love to get more politics stuff). However, I really feel the same way as you do. I think while the endings of WoK and WoR were really great, OB ending was a huge epic battle and then... Well just not enough closure on many small aspects. Guess the book was too long already. But I'd rather have some Shallan inner monologue in Kholinar or a Kaladin eating stew with soldiers scene cut.

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