Pathfinder

Fire Emblem Three Houses

264 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, Wyndlerunner said:

I honestly believe that if there were to be any Golden Route, it would involve a scenario, where Claude tempers Edelgard's extremism, and both work together to build Fodlan's New Dawn. 

That's why I want a Silver Route of sorts, where on each path - except for SS - you can recruit another lord to your cause and they could receive up to an A support.

Spoiler

On Crimson Flower it'd be Dimitri. Edelgard would spare Dimitri after his loss, and she'd set him on a warpath towards Cornelia, the true orchestrator of all of his misfortune. I'd like to say Claude could join here as well, but that'd make it too much like a Golden Route (and Hilda would never stand for it). Dimitri and Edelgard's paired ending here would be tragic. After Edelgard accomplished her mission, she and Dimitri would disappear. Some would say they killed each other, others would say they found peace with each other. Neither historians nor friends would ever know.

On Verdant Wind Claude and Byleth spare Edelgard. Claude doesn't disagree with her ideals, just her methods. This would also give Edelgard the chance to get vengeance on TWSITD both in-game and in her personal ending. And imagine the dialogue between her and Nemesis! Her ending with Claude would say that Edelgard officially died on after the battles at the capital, but the new queen of Almyra was someone who commanded both fear and respect...or something like that.

On Azure Moon, Dimitri would recruit Claude after saving him. Together they'd break down the barriers between Almyra and Fodlan, uniting them in a bond of brotherhood that could never be broken. 

It allows each character to still grow, and the changes seen in each with and without the effects of the Professor by their side. Or they could just have alternate A supports, with the C and B supports remaining the same. Or they wouldn't be able to unlock any supports past B on a route that wasn't intentionally for them. With the exception of Claude:

Spoiler

given how his paired endings usually don't affect Fodlan itself too much, other than a line or two about improved relations.Also because Claude's one of my favorite characters in all of Fire Emblem, so I want to give him ALL the power and happy endings!

SS doesn't get a lord or two for two reasons. First, I like the idea of it being a challenge. A Fire Emblem game without a classical lord, but still a protagonist. Secondly, and most importantly, I simply have no idea how to give this route two lords that don't make the lords appearing in later routes redundant. THAT BEING SAID, I heard that Seteth takes a larger role in this route, so maybe he and Flayn could obtain a special class to cover for it? ...then again, if they're receiving special classes and this is all DLC, why wouldn't one just make it so that Seteth and Flayn receive those classes in ALL other routes...? 

1 hour ago, The Awakened Salad said:

But as a serious answer, it depends on what type of story she’s after. Does she like character driven stories, or stories that focus on the big picture and lore? Then you could suggest a path, but also tell her that she’s not obligated to choose it.

That's probably the path I'll take (pun fully intended). Thanks for the advice!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

I heard that Seteth takes a larger role in this route

Seteth is who I consider to be the Lord character for Silver Snow

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m torn between reading your posts and trying to avoid spoilers.

Though I will say that one of the problems I have with the game is how it handles the three lords post-timeskip.

Spoiler

In AM, Claude just leaves and barely has an impact on the story except for one chapter, and in VW Dimitri dies off screen and is barely mentioned again (which I will never stop being slightly annoyed about). Edelgard has a big role in both (though bigger in AM) because she’s responsible for the war. I can’t speak for Edelgard’s routes, but I’m assuming Dimitri will have a larger role (and I’m not looking forward to fighting him, which I’m sure it will come to), but I don’t know about Claude. Still, for a game about the power struggles of three nations, you’d think their leaders would have had a bigger impact on the story than what they did. Then again, part of the appeal of choosing different routes rests on the player not knowing much about its respective lord, so maybe it was intentional to force the player to choose different houses?

Though I do have a problem with the idea of a “Golden” route where everyone is saved. I think it undermines the themes of the game, especially because it’s a war, and there’s not going to really be a happy ending in war.

@Use the Falchion I like your idea of recruiting one other lord (well, what I read of it while trying to avoid spoilers). It’s a nice solution and think it would solve some of the problems I have. 

Edited by The Awakened Salad
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Wyndlerunner said:

Seteth is who I consider to be the Lord character for Silver Snow

You're not alone in that sentiment, which is why I think he - in this ideal "update" - would get a special promotion. And Flayn too, because if Seteth gets one, she definitely does!

@The Awakened Salad Thanks! 

Spoiler

Dimitri's death in VW worked for me because it was so shocking, sudden, brutal, and off-screen. It was like he didn't even deserve to get screen time/ we the characters weren't there to witness this tragic end. After playing out Grondor Field for the first time and having to kill Sylvain, Mercedes, Ingrid, Bernadetta, and other students...it was the icing on that tragic cake. I hated it and I loved it. I hated how it made me feel, yet I loved the sheer fact that I felt genuine emotions about it. But that effect only works once, and I don't look forward to seeing Dimitri die again...

 

For those wondering and afraid of spoilers, the Silver Routes: CF would be Edelgard & Dimitri. AM would be Dimitri & Claude. VW would be Claude and Edelgard. 

Edited by Use the Falchion
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

I hated how it made me feel, yet I loved the sheer fact that I felt genuine emotions about it.

This is literally my feelings about most of the game summed up in one sentence. 

2 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

For those wondering and afraid of spoilers, the Silver Routes: CF would be Edelgard & Dimitri. AM would be Dimitri & Claude. VW would be Claude and Edelgard. 

I’m sure I’d feel a lot better about my CF playthrough if I could somehow recruit Dimitri. Also AM with Dimitri and Claude just sounds so fun. I really, really wish that they had more interactions post-timeskip. VW with Edelgard also sounds cool, but it has the downside of... you know. (Yes, I know I’m very biased). 

I feel like this sort of recruitment should only be available on a NG+ file though, but maybe that’s just me. 

2 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Dimitri's death in VW worked for me because it was so shocking, sudden, brutal, and off-screen. It was like he didn't even deserve to get screen time/ we the characters weren't there to witness this tragic end. After playing out Grondor Field for the first time and having to kill Sylvain, Mercedes, Ingrid, Bernadetta, and other students...it was the icing on that tragic cake. I hated it and I loved it. I hated how it made me feel, yet I loved the sheer fact that I felt genuine emotions about it. But that effect only works once, and I don't look forward to seeing Dimitri die again...

 

 

Spoiler

Yeah, I definitely understand that. My reaction was the complete opposite. It wasn’t so much his death that upset me, it was that he died off screen. I just feel like he deserved something, even a static image. But then again, that adds to the tragedy, and there’s a part of me that just loves tragedy in fiction (well, it’s more that I love to hate it), and he’s not all that relevant to VW in the first place.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So...I cheated looked at Hapi and Constance's S support artwork and watched the S support. I waited until I got to at least a B support with Hapi before I did, but after that I couldn't help myself. And I have to say, both are real contenders for Best Girl in my books. And since it's been a minute, I think I'll update my Top Ships of the Three Houses. These are likely to change, as they always do, but I think I'm settling into the long-term ones now.

Byleth x Marianne - true character growth

Byleth x Hapi - Hapi's just an all-around fun character. 

Byleth x Shamir 

Byleth x Constance 

Bylass/"Belle" x Dimitri

Claude x Petra

Felix x Annette

Lorenz x Leonie

Seteth x Ingrid (I'm a sucker for route-exclusive pairings)

Raphael x Bernadetta 

Sylvain x Dorothea (this one feels oddly appropriate.)

Sylvain x Mercedes (it's better than his supports with Ingrid, no matter how much the game tries to force those two. And of the endings, I'd say that this is one of his best, if not the BEST ending for him. Mercedes doesn't really have a bad ending, so she's fine.)

Ignatz x Mercedes (I like their paired ending, but Ignatz is a tough nut to crack)

Dedue x Mercedes 

Dedue x Shamir

Dedue x Flayn

Ferdinand x Flayn 

Caspar x Hilda - ;)

Caspar x Shamir (I'm not sold on this one yet, but I like their ending, so...)

Linhardt x Lysithea

Ashe x Catherine - a nice story about forgiveness 

Hanneman x Manuela

 

Undecided:

Balthus. I'm not sure who I'll pair him with yet (although as a crack ship, pairing him and Anna would be HILARIOUS. Their supports would likely involve Balthus asking Anna for a loan, then him running around doing odd jobs. A B+ or A support would involve Balthus protecting Anna from some danger, and their A or A+ support would have Anna asking Balthus to stick around because he works great as a bodyguard. Their pair ending would involve Anna paying off every one of Balthus' debts, so long as he signs the pre-nup…)

Yuri. I'm pretty sure I want to pair him with Dorothea, but I need to see the end of their support chain and their paired ending (if they have one) before I make a final decision.

Ignatz. I believe Ignatz's best ending is his dual ending with Raphael, but that means Bernadetta doesn't achieve her best ending, so...

I MIGHT ship Constance and Ferdinand. If this happens, I'll have to shuffle things around (Dimitri x Flayn, Ignatz x Marianne). But again, I'm not sure about Constance's non-player top ship yet. 

 

Other thoughts: A good aspect of the Cindered Shadows DLC is that during Part 2 of the game you can use Renown to lock in paired endings. However, this cost 10,000 RENOWN. That's an INSANE amount, and it's hard to naturally come by. Fortunately, you can also sell off items, or "offer" them to the pagan statue for Renown. 

 

 

 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/15/2020 at 9:38 PM, Use the Falchion said:

Claude x Petra

I never even considered this before, but that is a BEAUTIFUL ship!

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/14/2020 at 6:14 PM, Use the Falchion said:

Agreed!

And through GD, I never trusted Rhea that much, but she was slightly better than Edelgard. Characters like Shamir (a nonbeliever and a foreigner), Cyril (a prisoner of war/orphan of war and a foreigner), Catherine (an outlaw of sorts), and the survivors of Remire Village all helped Rhea's case. Once I learned Edelgard's background and goals, I found them to be similar enough to what Rhea's goals were to see them as the same. Edelgard wants power over Fodlan to change a system that is corrupt and has intimately hurt her and countless others. Both are defined by their trauma and had a single-minded focus on their goal. They are both extremists and willing to make unsavory deals to achieve their goals, that if their respective goal is achieved, everything will be worth it. Both viewed Byleth as a means to an end - a pawn in a larger chess game. Rhea knew this from the beginning, and for Edelgard things kicked into place after the Sword of the Creator incident. This changes for both of them over time (although for Rhea you don't really see the guilt unless you S support her; but in the case of AM she does step down, feeling not worthy of the role of Archbishop). And both Rhea and Edelgard (...and the entire cast, if we're being honest) really, really, REALLY need some therapy. Preferably by Seteth. The man knows how to listen and help the students. 

  Reveal hidden contents

I can't remember a time where Rhea advocates child experimentation. The church, while making use of crests, actually opposes the glorification of them, as said in their lore. Seteth, as an individual possessing a Major crest and being a high ranking member of the church doesn't think too highly of the society based around them either. Byleth is a complex case, and Cindered Shadows digs a little deeper into that. Rhea, if she is to be believed, was actually pretty hands-off.

So again, yeah I tend to side with Rhea more often than not, but I'll be the first to say she wasn't the best individual. If it's any consolation, I seem to be in the minority about liking Rhea over Edelgard! ...or liking Rhea in general...

 

 

Bonus:

Top 10 people at Garrag Mach who need therapy:

1. Rhea (homegirl needs centuries of therapy)

1. Edelgard (homegirl needs decades of therapy...)

1. Dimitri (homeboy ALSO needs decades of therapy)

4. Bernadetta (Bernie needs a safe space to talk to someone in person, in a non-threatening manner, outside of her own room, CONSISTENTLY)

5. Marianne (the poor girl really needs therapy, but by Part 2 she can overcome most of her issues)

5. Gilbert

7. Dedue 

8. Lysithea (Lysithea's lifespan, age, and natural talent make her prone to outbursts for seemingly no reason. She needs someone to vent to).

9. Claude (he's lower on the list not because he's not as damaged as the others (his parents may be living, but he's lived a life full of racism and assassination attempts) but because he's become pretty well adjusted in spite of the damage).

10. Annette (just enough therapy to allow her to live her life without worrying/wondering about her father)

 

 

 

On 2/14/2020 at 6:25 PM, The Awakened Salad said:

If I may add to the Edelgard discussion:

Blue Lions was my first route, and in that route, Edelgard is probably vilified the most (maybe aside from Silver Snow). I only had the information Dimitri had, which was very incomplete, and so the route painted a very bad picture of her. 

Spoilery discussion below. Spoilers for the final map of Blue Lions, and pre-timeskip Edelgard supports. 

  Reveal hidden contents

After the Flame Emperor reveal, I hated Edelgard. The cutscene... watching Dimitri finally snap as he believes he’s finally found the one responsible for his family’s murder. He was my favorite character in the game, and still is, so I was completely on his side. Part of the problem, I think, is that the Blue Lions route never actually gives you a reason why Edelgard started the war. All I knew was that she had some ideals, and that she was fighting for them. I kept waiting for the game to give me a concrete reason, so that I could try and understand her, but none never came. Of course, she doesn’t tell the public about the experimentation she went through (I doubt she’ll tell them in Crimson Flower), but even then, I don’t know what the official reason was either. And then right before the final Blue Lions map, when Edelgard agrees to meet with Dimitri, I was still wondering what she was fighting for. I didn’t hate her by this point, I still didn’t like her, but I was resolved to see her side of the story. I don’t remember there being a solid reason in Golden Deer either.

But in general, especially for Blue Lions, Edelgard is an easy person to blame for everything that happens.

And I think because Edelgard is so easy to blame that so many people just hate her (not saying anyone here does, but in other parts of the internet Edelgard hate is everywhere). Of course, there are also those who disagree with her methods, which is fair, but I think my point still stands. The game paints her as an evil conqueror in other routes, and without the context from her route that’s all the player has to go off of. They go even further in Blue Lions and just fully dehumanize her in the last map (again, with no explanation of why or how she could even transform), which doesn’t really help. 

Now, after doing Golden Deer and on a Black Eagles run, I still have very conflicting views on Edelgard. Her supports provide much needed context on why she chose to do what she has done, and even though I’m only on Chapter 7, things are starting to fall into place. I still have residual feelings of dislike because of Blue Lions, but I also sympathise with her and I see that she felt she had no choice but to go to war. It’s honestly left me feeling really confused. I don’t like her and I’m still a bit mad at her but I also just want to give her a blanket and some hot chocolate and tell her everything’s going to be okay? Hopefully the further I go the clearer things will get.  

I still think Edelgard is a very well written character, and I think the divisiveness in opinion about her is a testament to that. She takes very drastic actions that won’t agree with everyone, but I think that’s what makes the game so special to me. Every route uncovers a different side to the story (well, they’re technically all different stories), and eventually the fully puzzle will be pieced together. Some of the dialogue has extra layers of meaning now, especially Rhea’s, considering I’m going to go Crimson Flower instead of Silver Snow. “I hope the students all learned a valuable lesson about the fate that awaits all who are foolish enough to point their blades towards the heavens” is probably the one that stands out the most right now.

But for me, I think the differences in opinions makes Three Houses a much richer game.

Well, that turned into an essay. If you made it to the end, congratulations! You and Salad have reached C Support. 

 

On 2/14/2020 at 8:03 PM, Wyndlerunner said:

If I might also pitch into the Edelgard discussion, as someone who went BE first. Spoilers for Length and Basically all of the base game (no Cindered Shadows here)

  Hide contents

So, I went into this game knowing only that there were three houses at an academy, and that there was a timeskip at some point (due to the E3 trailer). I immediately ruled out  Blue Lions, because I was fairly certain Dimitri was going to be the villain due to his timeskip appearance and the ever memeable "Kill Every Last One of Them" line. So, that left me between Golden Deer and Black Eagles. While talking to the Students on that first day at Garreg Mach, However Lorenz just put me off. I thought he was annoying (an opinion I have since retracted). So, I chose Black Eagles. I saw the Byleth Supports with Edelgard, but didn't think they had much to do with the Church. I grew fond of El, and continued in my misguided suspicion that the Flame Emperor was related to Dimitri, if not just Dimitri himself. Then the reveal happened- and I felt betrayed. I felt like El had been using Byleth, along with the other students for (what I perceived to be a foul gain.) So- when given the choice to spare Edelgard or Kill her. I was distraught. I felt, rather foolishly, that I would have to choose between my students, or Edelgard. I eventually decided to side with the Church (partially because more Character drama.) I hated what El did, but I still liked El- and genuinely felt bad when I had to take her out.

Now, post Silver Snow's final map, and the reveals about Byleth's origins- I felt more mixed about Rhea and the Church generally. And then I immediately jumped into an Azure Moon playthrough. (in no small part due to that weird Dimitri bit in Silver Snow- it's just so out there). Now here, I began to see more of the Churches flaws on display in some of the supports (Particularly Ashe and Catherine's, and the somewhat backwards society in Faerghus, displayed in Sylvain and Mercedes, and Ingrid and anyone really). I go through part one much the same- except for feeling a bit more about it (Honestly White Clouds was made for Azure Moon). Then the first of many reveals happens: Edelgard is Dimitri's Stepsister. Not only that, but they were childhood friends, who had a good relationship. (Don't tell me it didn't make your heart melt a little when she taught him how to dance). So rather than abject betrayal and anger- I felt Dimitri's anguish. The Knowledge that the one he seeks vengeance upon is also someone he cares about. I empathized with this, as I too cared about El. However for a good half of Azure Moon- I focused inward. Worrying more about Dimitri's inner struggles and pain, rather than a grand 'Cause of the War'. Then, we reached the Endgame of Azure Moon- and I began to feel genuine respect for El's devotion to her cause. She and Dimitri were both fighting for their Ideals, and each respected that (And another Dagger, Dimi you lovable tortured soul, you know just how to make me bittersweet). Then, the final map arrived, and I felt horrified by what Edelgard had done to herself (then I proceeded to laugh hysterically over her lack of ability to hit anything). Then the final cutscene played, and I felt saddened by Edelgard's dedication. The fact that she would rather forfeit her life than yield to Dimitri, whom she has already acknowledged as "Her dear forgotten friend." 

Post Azure Moon, I still cared about El, but I also felt like she had made too many moral miscalculations, and I found her extremism to be a grand error. But, in Azure Moon's ending, Fodlan also doesn't really change- except that it's all united as Faerghus, and the reliance on Crests seems to be going away with time (As Per Sylvain and Ingrid's Paired Ending). So, I went to Verdant Wind, as the last route I needed to play, hoping for some real answers about our favorite Dubstep DJ's, and 'Solon, the Savior of All' (Even post Verdant Wind, I'm not sure why that line exists).

It was in Verdant Wind, where I finally realized what El was lacking. She and Claude are actually quite similar characters, save for a few key differences. Both want drastic change for Fodlan, and distrust the Church of Seiros. (additionally both want a future where reliance on the church is lessened). But their key difference lies in their outlook and how far they're willing to go to find the change they seek. No matter what route you play- Edelgard is willing to start a continent-wide war to get the change they seek. But for Claude, that's off the table. No matter how noble or in the right he feels he is- he doesn't believe in killing to achieve his dream, until it becomes clear that both the Empire and TWSiTD, are posing significant threats to Fodlan having a peaceful united future. (I should also note that from what I know of Crimson Flower's plot, that Claude openly says that he trusts Edelgard with Fodlan's future, should you spare him at Derdriu.). I honestly believe that if there were to be any Golden Route, it would involve a scenario, where Claude tempers Edelgard's extremism, and both work together to build Fodlan's New Dawn.  Both are devoted to making sure that no one else must suffer the afflictions that both suffered in their childhood. As for Rhea and the Church- Verdant Wind's confirmation that Rhea was in fact Seiros, made me feel like the church was even more oppressive than before (as Rhea is essentially the Eterana-Pope of her own religion.). However the Truth of the Relic Weapons and Crests themselves, made me certain that the Agarthans were the true enemy, and the Cause of both Edelgard's and Rhea's Trauma. Yes the truth of Crests and Relics were obscured, and history was rewritten. But it felt like it came from a desire to protect what few Nabateans remained. Did the Church of Seiros misuse its creed like El claims? Yep they did. But I also still don't see them as the ultimate evil, like El seems to think they are. They are Misguided.

Edelgard is Misguided in her extremism.

Dimitri is misguided in his hatred, and his willingness to let the status quo stand.

Rhea is misguided in her attempts to revive her mother, and a fear of Zanado repeating itself.

Claude is misguided in his attempts to straight up use Byleth for the Sword of the Creator's power.

Nobody in this game is a perfect good character- except Seteth and Flayn. They're perfect.

Thank you for reading

 

 

So, lot to catch up on, and lot to say so I just quoted you all as what I have to say can apply to everything without directly touching on any particular point. For the most part, I don't mind spoilers to things. There are some notable exceptions, but usually knowing how something will go before hand doesn't bother me, and sometimes enhances the experience because I know what to pay attention to so I do not miss it upon viewing it. With that in mind, to better understand where you are coming from, I read the spoilers for Rhea, and then re-read for Edelgard to have it fresh in my mind when I replied. I think I can say this without spoilers when I say I believe what it comes down to it is the Japanese version of the hero trope. Now I am not saying that in a negative manner (for the most part, as there is an aspect I personally disagree with). This trope for me functions as such:

The protagonist is an amazing person. He or she is good, kind, intelligent, and truly inspiring. The hero's presence in other people's lives is transformative. Their existence shapes the very progression of the lives of those around them. 

Now I agree, the people in our lives help shape us, and can change us for the better or for the worse. Just I feel in Japanese Anime, and some american media, this is taken to a bit of an extreme. Literally as I was speaking about this concept to my wife, I watched a video on youtube about alternative versions of characters in comic books. Beast from the X-Men came up. In the comic books, Hank (Beast) was always a voice of reason. Intelligent, compassionate, and peace loving. For in a superhero comicbook/cartoon, to have a character that avoids violence, and seeks accommodation in a very Ghandiesque manner I always felt was beautiful. Hank did have a dark time, where he experimented to try and expunge himself of the mutation. He failed and took it as a hard lesson and grew as a person accepting his mutation and others in the same circumstance. He then championed understanding and equality. Now enter his evil counter part, Dark Beast from the Age of Apocalypse storyline. The Age of Apoclypse storyline tells us that if Professor Xavier died before meeting/getting to know Hank, the character would take a dramatically different path. Hank would not have learned morality and compassion from Professor Xavier during his experimentation part in his life. Not having such a person in his life, led Hank to become cruel and sadistic. Experimenting on innocent people in horrific and torturous ways. This bothers me. It removes the agency of the character. It disregards (to me) the character's personal development and growth. That if it wasn't for Charles, Hank would become his worse self. It makes Hank to me, nothing more than a switch that Charles flipped for him to be a "good guy"

This is why I think I had a very different experience of Edelgard via Crimson Flower, than you others have had on the other runs, or Silver Snow. The protagonist siding with Edelgard, brought out her best traits, while his/her absence from Rhea brought out her worse. The rest I will spoiler just in case, though I feel if some of you have no intention of playing Crimson Flower, then it cannot hurt anything to read it lol. 

Spoiler

That of a benevolent ruler seeking to free her people from the tyranny of the church and an archaic system of rule focused on keeping people down and subservient. The moments where she has to do hard things, is portrayed much like Elend. Someone who loves their people, and tries to personally sacrifice for a better future. Conversely, Rhea is shown in a very negative light, and since she does not have the protagonist by her side, Rhea commits quite a few atrocities. Among them setting fire to a village of innocent people, just so it makes it harder on Edelgard's forces to assault Rhea's position. Rhea's own people (Seteth, Flayn, Catherine) even begin to question if this is the right path. 

So you can see why in that case I would see Edelgard in a far more favorable light than Rhea. Now I am not upset at the game for doing this. As I said, it is a prevalent anime trope (just see Dragon Ball Z, Bleach, Naruto, Tokyo Ghoul, I could go on and on) and over all I did enjoy the story. I also understand why they did it, so you can feel justified fighting against a "big bad". Just personally it still strikes me as a tad unbelievable. People can bring out the best in each other, but I feel it kind of has to be there to begin with in the person to be brought out. And if it is there to be brought out to begin with, then there is also a good chance that person could still bring it out in other circumstances and not be so utterly beholden on this one person to change them. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

This is why I think I had a very different experience of Edelgard via Crimson Flower, than you others have had on the other runs, or Silver Snow. The protagonist siding with Edelgard, brought out her best traits, while his/her absence from Rhea brought out her worse. The rest I will spoiler just in case, though I feel if some of you have no intention of playing Crimson Flower, then it cannot hurt anything to read it lol. 

  Reveal hidden contents

That of a benevolent ruler seeking to free her people from the tyranny of the church and an archaic system of rule focused on keeping people down and subservient. The moments where she has to do hard things, is portrayed much like Elend. Someone who loves their people, and tries to personally sacrifice for a better future. Conversely, Rhea is shown in a very negative light, and since she does not have the protagonist by her side, Rhea commits quite a few atrocities. Among them setting fire to a village of innocent people, just so it makes it harder on Edelgard's forces to assault Rhea's position. Rhea's own people (Seteth, Flayn, Catherine) even begin to question if this is the right path. 

So you can see why in that case I would see Edelgard in a far more favorable light than Rhea. Now I am not upset at the game for doing this. As I said, it is a prevalent anime trope (just see Dragon Ball Z, Bleach, Naruto, Tokyo Ghoul, I could go on and on) and over all I did enjoy the story. I also understand why they did it, so you can feel justified fighting against a "big bad". Just personally it still strikes me as a tad unbelievable. People can bring out the best in each other, but I feel it kind of has to be there to begin with in the person to be brought out. And if it is there to be brought out to begin with, then there is also a good chance that person could still bring it out in other circumstances and not be so utterly beholden on this one person to change them.

Interesting points! I might read it some day, but I know what Rhea does during it, Edelgard's past and how she became who she is, and I know how it ends, so I feel relatively good about it for now. ...although honestly thinking about the videogame cruelty potential in that storyline still hurts...

And I do understand your thinking, but remember for Rhea:

Spoiler

she NEVER has the opportunity to have Byleth by her side to bring out the best of her. She's captured beforehand. What she does get is a chance to think about her actions and her sins, and try to find a way to repent. In all situations, her plans have been all for naught. Sothis isn't reborn (most people would most likely say she's gone forever), the church has crumbled, her old enemies have returned, and Fodlan is at war. Rhea steps down in at least half of her endings, feeling like she isn't worthy enough to lead the church after looking back. 

Edelgard is offered this same chance in to atone and potentially redeem herself in AM, but refuses to take it. 

 

What colored my view of Edelgard is finding out the truth of (almost) everything in VW, and then finding out what Edelgard believes is the truth in CF, and then realizing how she came about that information. I guess I just get a little on edge because it feels like everyone will rush to the defense of Edelgard, but very few will even try to say anything positive about Rhea (who DID do a lot of good over the thousand years). 

58 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

And if it is there to be brought out to begin with, then there is also a good chance that person could still bring it out in other circumstances and not be so utterly beholden on this one person to change them.

Dalinar and his visit to the Nightwatcher would like to have a word with you lol! 

Edited by Use the Falchion
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

Interesting points! I might read it some day, but I know what Rhea does during it, Edelgard's past and how she became who she is, and I know how it ends, so I feel relatively good about it for now. ...although honestly thinking about the videogame cruelty potential in that storyline still hurts...

And I do understand your thinking, but remember for Rhea:

  Reveal hidden contents

she NEVER has the opportunity to have Byleth by her side to bring out the best of her. She's captured beforehand. What she does get is a chance to think about her actions and her sins, and try to find a way to repent. In all situations, her plans have been all for naught. Sothis isn't reborn (most people would most likely say she's gone forever), the church has crumbled, her old enemies have returned, and Fodlan is at war. Rhea steps down in at least half of her endings, feeling like she isn't worthy enough to lead the church after looking back. 

Edelgard is offered this same chance in to atone and potentially redeem herself in AM, but refuses to take it. 

 

What colored my view of Edelgard is finding out the truth of (almost) everything in VW, and then finding out what Edelgard believes is the truth in CF, and then realizing how she came about that information. I guess I just get a little on edge because it feels like everyone will rush to the defense of Edelgard, but very few will even try to say anything positive about Rhea (who DID do a lot of good over the thousand years). 

Just to clarify, I am not trying to convince you to see Edelgard in a better light, and Rhea in a worse light. My intention was Edelgard's "worser" actions that I believe led you to see her so unfavorably did not take place on her run because Byleth was there bringing out her best. Just like (to me), Rhea's "worser" actions occurred in Crimson Flower because Byleth didn't inspire her to be "better". It is brought down to a defining moment.

Spoiler

Whether Byleth chooses to side with Edelgard, or with Rhea. I respect your opinion, but in all the other runs, the defining moment when Byleth sides with Rhea instead of siding with Edelgard I feel is what results in us not seeing Rhea go "dark" and commit the atrocities that we do see in Crimson Flower. Remember, Rhea believes Byleth is still Sothis in a manner though the revival doesn't work, and trusts Byleth to lead. She tries to sacrifice herself to defend Byleth and hurts at the thought of losing Byleth. That is what results in her introspection. Meanwhile siding with Edelgard causes Rhea to feel betrayed, and view you as a failure. A failure she has to expunge to start again. There is no self reflection. No chance for redemption. Same occurs with Edelgard. Edelgard during Crimson Flower even outright thanks the protagonist for being by her side, for she feels she might have taken a darker path had the protagonist not shown their belief in her cause.

Same with my Age of Apoclypse example. One moment. One choice of the protagonist completely changes the other character's entire arc. 

30 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

Dalinar and his visit to the Nightwatcher would like to have a word with you lol! 

So I will be happy to go at length in spoilers if you will like, but the TLDR portion is I feel Dalinar had the capability to change and be better all along. There are scenes that show as much. That shshshsh saw in Dalinar what no one else did, but it was there already. The tradegy for me is that in the world Dalinar was in, he did not have the time or space to nurture that side. That is why who stepped in, stepped in. The fact (to me) that she said it could have just as easily gone the other way, says to me that it had to be Dalinar at the end of the day that had to change. That he had to be the one to bring out that side of him. To be clear not saying he is not responsible for his actions. Just I do feel Dalinar was always capable of changing, and the Dalinar we know now and love was always possible and present. I think had circumstances been different, the Dalinar we know and love could have come to be on his own, without the memory loss. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

So I will be happy to go at length in spoilers if you will like, but the TLDR portion is I feel Dalinar had the capability to change and be better all along. There are scenes that show as much. That shshshsh saw in Dalinar what no one else did, but it was there already. The tradegy for me is that in the world Dalinar was in, he did not have the time or space to nurture that side. That is why who stepped in, stepped in. The fact (to me) that she said it could have just as easily gone the other way, says to me that it had to be Dalinar at the end of the day that had to change. That he had to be the one to bring out that side of him. To be clear not saying he is not responsible for his actions. Just I do feel Dalinar was always capable of changing, and the Dalinar we know now and love was always possible and present. I think had circumstances been different, the Dalinar we know and love could have come to be on his own, without the memory loss. 

Oh don't worry I totally understand. It was a little light teasing on my part. Sorry if that didn't come through clear enough. 

 

3 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Just to clarify, I am not trying to convince you to see Edelgard in a better light, and Rhea in a worse light. My intention was Edelgard's "worser" actions that I believe led you to see her so unfavorably did not take place on her run because Byleth was there bringing out her best. Just like (to me), Rhea's "worser" actions occurred in Crimson Flower because Byleth didn't inspire her to be "better". It is brought down to a defining moment.

  Reveal hidden contents

Ah okay, I understand now. Thanks!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 16/02/2020 at 3:08 PM, Use the Falchion said:

Felix x Annette

I somehow missed this one the first time I was scrolling through. But YES. This ship needs more attention! Their A+ support is just so cute. 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, The Awakened Salad said:

I somehow missed this one the first time I was scrolling through. But YES. This ship needs more attention! Their A+ support is just so cute. 

But what about Lysithea and Felix, whose supports are filled with such wisdom as

"Adults eat cake"- Felix, 2019

"Cake is the divine essence of the heavens"- Lysithea, 2019

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Wyndlerunner said:

But what about Lysithea and Felix, whose supports are filled with such wisdom as

"Adults eat cake"- Felix, 2019

"Cake is the divine essence of the heavens"- Lysithea, 2019

I see your play, and counter with Annette's singing...ABOUT CAKE (and then a genuine compliment by Felix to boot!). 

But Felix and Lycithea's supports are pretty funny. 

Edited by Use the Falchion
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.