"Why I don't like Adolin" / "Why I do like Adolin"

[Ixthos]

[The views implied in the title might not reflect the views of the author]

 

So, as per @Chaos's suggestion, I'm making this thread for anyone who wants to talk about the off-topic topic that is sweeping the fando- [hears whispers] ... has swept the fandom, and might be making a comeback, if it never really left. The topic of Adolin, and whether or not he is a good character, a good husband, and a good friend. Overpowered and too perfect pretty boy, unworthy of Shallan's affection and Kaladin's respect, or the only character who can provide a normal human perspective, someone who can connect the two sides? This topic is to discuss Adolin, Adolin and Shallan, and Adolin and Shallan and Kaladin, in the context of how this relates to Adolin. Please, however, whatever you do, remember this one thing:

 

We all enjoy the Stormlight Archives, we all enjoy reading about the characters, and we all agree that some areas of the story are handled better than others. We are all people here, all who like the story, and that it why we are posting here. Remember that, and please remember that it is possible to disagree without arguing, and that what someone types in frustration at the situation doesn't necessarily mean they are attacking you, or meant to attack you. Please, be respectful, and remember, the characters respect one another, so it shouldn't be too hard for their proponents to do so as well. I love you guys, please don't forget to love one another too.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Ixthos
Fixed typo in title, clarified purpose of topic

[Sedside]

Thank you for this thread

I'm actually in a process of writing a big analysis of Adolin's character, it will take a looong time to go yet, but I will participate in this thread, if there will be a good quality discussion, supported by quotes and analysis.

First of all, I don't think Adolin is a bad character. He is a good character, well written, and has his own purpose in the story. I think, he is very consistent and stable character, and this is done deliberately to him, so everything I think about his traits is an author's intent and will serve later in the plot, but hadn't yet come out.

What I don't like about Adolin is perhaps not truly about Adolin, it's about how the majority of people perceive him. Maybe it's not a completely valid point from me, people can have their opinions, which differ from mine.

What I enjoy the most in any stories - books, movies, TV shows - is not the magic or the worldbuilding (though it's very nice too!), but something I can use in my life, something I can learn and grow as a person on it. And it is not about "oh, this one is a nice guy, he is a prince, he is handsome, let's make him an Edgedancer, because it will be great and he will look nice as an Edgedancer". If this is the case - I will stop reading SA. But the problem is that the 3 books so far proved to me, that most likely this is not the case. Sanderson writes psychology very well, he also definitely has moral in these books. The theme of being responsible, doing something you are scared of, being strong, contain your passion, do what you have to, not what you want to - it's here all the time. What I like so much about these books, is that superheroes don't appear randomly, because of their luck, like being born in the right family, or mutation, or being chosen just because author so wanted. They become superheroes because they have accomplished something. Yes, they are broken, but the only fact of being broken is not enough. You have to be broken, but fighting against it, that's what I see in SA. They are proactive, they do what they can in their circumstances. And that's what I as a reader can learn from them, I can use those characters as a pattern to follow.

What I also like in the books, because it is something I can use, is relationships. Dialogues. How characters behave when they speak to other characters. Maybe it seems unimportant, unless it pushes the plot further, but to me it doesn't. And what I also see in these books is that the author is great at writing dialogues. Sometimes a single, short and seemingly very simple reply seems so storming amazing to me that I just freeze there for a couple of minutes enjoying it. One such moment was when Kaladin spoke to a soldier, who wanted to take B4's water. The soldier said that he doesn't want to wait for his own water crews. Kaladin replied "how unfortunate". Two words, but, storms, this is a perfect answer. Not verbally attacking the soldier, not advising him what to do, sleek wording, somewhat trolling, but still holding his ground. And such things are everywhere throughout the books, and I love them. This is another thing that shows me that those books are very deep.

So what I see in Adolin is that he is deliberately written is such way that he is not so great as almost everyone here thinks he is. Maybe it's because people don't like to analyse or whatever. It's written that Dalinar thinks noone can deny Adolin - then it is so. It is written that Shallan thinks she loves him and he helps her to hold her personas together - then it is so. Kaladin said to Syl that he didn't love her - then it is so. It is written that Shallan married Adolin - well, then it is set in stone and they will be happy ever after.

I actually don't want to bring a lot of analysis here yet, until I finish my work with a big post, just because it will all be there. I will just say that to me Adolin is a pretty ordinary person, who is placed into a very unordinary situation. Any change of life is a stress, this is how biology works. Even a good change. What helps people deal with this stress of change is a power of their personality. They have to use their strength, adapt and grow even stronger. But Adolin does not adapt, he does not change, and he does not grow, he just swims with the tide. He doesn't take any responsibility, he wants to do nothing, just enjoy life and entertain himself. Yes, he participates in some grand events, but does he initiate anything? Everything just drops onto him without his noticeable efforts. He had struggles with women? Shallan-The-One-And-Only is here to solve his problems. He was about to die at the Tower? Kaladin is here to save his life. He was about to lose all House Kholin shards, get crippled or possibly killed? Kaladin for the rescue again. He had almost dropped into the chasm? Skar&Drehy are already working on your case, stay tuned. He committed a murder of a highprince? Noone cares, you did well, dude. He got a gut wound? Dalinar&Renarin are here, no worries. And now what? He is not a Radiant in the Era of Gods? Maya will do this for you, Adolin, you don't have to do anything, just be kind to your sword and heal her with the beauty of your hair. Maybe choose her a nice outfit in Celebrant.

I just think that Adolin is here to show us, that a person who doesn't want to strain, who wants only idle life without any responsibilities and struggles, will eventually be crushed by all those apocalyptic events. That the person, who wants to take no decisions and "someone just to take care of it all", is an odd one here. He must pay for this with either finally evolving somehow or with being broken and possibly killed.

Maybe I am wrong, and Adolin will revive Maya, become Radiant and never have any payback, Shallan will forget all her feelings for Kaladin as soon as she finally rips Adolin's shift off and so on. It will somewhat be good too, as I will be free and won't have to wait for another couple of years after SA4 release, because I will drop those books.

[Mage of Lirigon]

13 minutes ago, Sedside said:

But Adolin does not adapt, he does not change, and he does not grow, he just swims with the tide. 

Adolin is not a fully formed character yet, and it's disingenuous to suggest that he hasn't changed when his whole arc in Oathbringer was about him making the first steps to growing and changing. 

 

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He doesn't take any responsibility, he wants to do nothing

It's not that Adolin doesn't want to take responsibility or do nothing, we've seen him be very dutiful, almost to a fault, before.

Adolin's arc in Oathbringer was about him realizing that responsibility and duty are things you need to choose for yourself, not because you're trying to live up to an impossible and frankly non-existant ideal of someone, an ideal that was placed in your head because said someone was trying to live their lives vicariously through you and happened to be emotionally distant during your formative years.

 

[RayW2]

Unique character. Not even a main protagonist, not even have a character arc and yet probably the most discussed (well, not in a positive manner) character of all of them.

Just...how? I wanted to write something about him and realized I just can't find words. There's nothing to discuss. He's so shallow.

Most likely Sanderson added him into the books for merely narrative purpose and somehow he started to pull so strong emotions, posituve and negative, out of readers.

As for his personal qualities: there's not much it him. Couldn't stand him in the first book because of his treatment of Dalinar. Later books cemented my opinion on him: lazy, spoiled, irresponsible.

[Lidolas]

1 hour ago, RayW2 said:

As for his personal qualities: there's not much it him. Couldn't stand him in the first book because of his treatment of Dalinar. Later books cemented my opinion on him: lazy, spoiled, irresponsible.

I don't think he became the best dueler in the country and probably the 'world' by being lazy.  He works hard at what he cares about.  He worked hard in his courtship with Shallan.  He just needed the right incentive.  He takes responsibility when he needs to.  The Kholin soldiers all look up to him.  He is just as comfortable talking to common soldiers as he is with highprinces.  I liked seeing the internal struggle he goes through when he thought his dad might be insane.  I think he had legitimate concerns, but he also tried hard to push aside his cultural and religious biases to support his father.

[Bigmikey357]

I have always believed that Adolin gets judged unfairly because Brandon is a trope breaker. Normally, as fantasy readers we have been conditioned to pick guys like Adolin to be the hero, the MC that can do no wrong. In a more simple story he would be. SA is generally a refuge for those of us who reject the simple story nearly by reflex, and Adolin as poster boy for the simple gets smashed as a result.

The thing is though, is that Adolin isn't simple. He didn't just step on the scene as a good duelist. He has that natural talent but he worked hard as hell for it. And for years he was the best in the camp but duty kept him from showing it. He could have defied his restrictions like his peers but he refuses even that. 

He's 3rd in line to the throne. He could easily be the vacuous spoiled noble people want to portray him as, but a person like that doesn't even see the dark-eyed prostitute in the street about to be beaten. Adolin does. In an enemy camp no less. 

He treated Dalinar badly? I say that Dalinar needs someone he cannot just bully his way through. He's irresponsible? He's been second in command of the Kholin Army for like 2 years on the Plains. He didn't want to be king but so what? Hell if he had become King of Alethkar his detractors would have another reason to hate him, saying he was just handed a crown.

Look, I could come up with counter argument after counter argument, could go point by point with the Adolin detractors without changing a single opinion one way or the other. But even though he ain't my favorite I like him and believe he is necessary. Dalinar needs pushback, Renarin needs someone in his corner no matter what happens, Kaladin needs a friend, someone he doesn't have to command. Shallan needs someone she can actually lean on when so many of her other relationships require her to be the pillar. Her brothers are hopeless around her, Dalinar piles responsibilities on her without thinking whether she can bear them, and her and Jasnah have that mother/daughter dynamic where they both attract and repel each other. Much like the Edgedancer I think he'll become, he just naturally smooths over the frictions these broken people face from an uncaring world. Without the function he provides Team Honor got no chance.

Last thing. For those who hate Adolin, take a look through SA. If you remove him from the narrative do you think it makes the story stronger or weaker? I did something similar for Sadeas in a previous reread. I felt that he was a great villain for the first 2 novels but would have dragged the narrative down had he been allowed to survive into OB.

[Chaos]

Hi all! Since this is a discussion thread, I'd just like to make a few reminders. We're all here because we like Stormlight and want the books to be the best they can be. For different people that will be different things. 

1. It's okay for others to have opinions to different from your own. You aren't defined by your opinion. If others have different thoughts, your opinion will live just fine.
2. If someone says something that annoys you, that does not mean they are a terrible person, and also, you don't need to respond to them. People will post things in this thread others disagree with and this is fine. Don't feel obligated to respond to people you disagree with, because people feeling differently than you on the internet is pretty standard. 
3. If you feel your blood start to boil, take a break. Do not escalate situations. Disagreements can turn bad fast. If someone's being rude, report the post. Don't engage. Go have tea or something.
4. Be aware of how your words look to someone who disagrees with you. If someone feels different than you, they will likely not give your words and arguments the benefit of the doubt that you are not terrible. Try to give people the benefit of the doubt, because people generally are not awful, but also, be aware that your words have power. Instead of saying things authoritatively, say things like "I can see what you mean, but I disagree because" rather than "This is the only way and it is a fact."
5. You probably won't change anyone's mind, and that's also okay. How you feel about a character has a drastic effect on how someone interacts with the text, and even if you think you have the perfect evidence to something, it is perfectly fine for others to still say, "I see what you're saying, but I still dislike Adolin because" (or vice versa). Many of you will just need to agree to disagree. This does not make anyone an idiot, they just feel differently.
6. Never attack people personally. 

I find these things kind of obvious, but I wanted to make that clear. 

This is a place to share opinions and discuss and all are welcome. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Lidolas said:

I don't think he became the best dueler in the country and probably the 'world' by being lazy.

I don't know. Talent can go a long way. If there is a point I'd concede, it is this one though, yes.

2 hours ago, Lidolas said:

He worked hard in his courtship with Shallan.

I absolutely have to disagree here. He didn't do more there than he did in previous courtships, even made the same mistakes like ogling the waitress on their first date, and those always fell apart, because of his lack of willingness to work. This time he was lucky because of Shallan's desperation.

2 hours ago, Lidolas said:

He takes responsibility when he needs to. 

Again, disagree. Firstly, there are not a lot of instances where he really has to take responsibility. One of those instances was Sadeas murder. For which he did not take responsibility and kept his fianceé in the dark, while she was searching for Sadeas killer. How convenient, that she discovered Re-Shephir in the process, so he again didn't have to take responsibility. Like @Sedside already said, convenience is something that constantly follows Adolin and it annoys me to no end.

He does take responsibility. Sometimes, when it suits and helps him to do so. Not when he needs to. If he did that, he would have become king, because that is when his princedom, his country and, most of all, his father needed him.

Anyway, I suppose, that my view on Adolin is quite renowned by now - for better or worse. I don't like him, simple as that. I simply don't like to read him, he's not interesting to figure out and he doesn't resonate with me. A lot of his issues I perceive as whining, because of his privileged position. I don't want him to become a Radiant for the simple fact, that he doesn't deserve it. All other Radiants, that attained radiancy not through squireship, went through a proverbial hell to gain that and he should get it because he strokes his Shardblade sometimes? No, I don't think so.

1 hour ago, Bigmikey357 said:

Last thing. For those who hate Adolin, take a look through SA. If you remove him from the narrative do you think it makes the story stronger or weaker? I did something similar for Sadeas in a previous reread. I felt that he was a great villain for the first 2 novels but would have dragged the narrative down had he been allowed to survive into OB.

In my eyes, this question doesn't make much sense to ask, because he's obviously part of the plot now - just like Sadeas was. I can't say, how the plot would have changed without him. However, I don't believe, that his character is something that brings much to the table in regards to the whole package of the Stormlight Archive. Books are more than just stories.

Edited February 15, 2019 by SLNC

[Toaster Retribution]

Heh, Chaos is looking at this thread whilst I’m typing. Adolin is a simple but controversial guy... 

Anyways, I like Adolin. A lot. He is a nice guy, and a very important part of what makes all the other main characters grow. I think that is an underrated aspect of him. How he affects and changes the life of Shallan, Kaladin and Dalinar by basically just being decent and trying his best. Brandon is a lot about positive messages, and he likes to write about the good parts of human beings, not the bad ones. I think that comes into play with Adolin. He changes people and the world by being a good guy. He doesn’t need magic to do that, or a very troubled past, or visions, or being an outcast in society. He just needs to be Adolin.

I know that a lot of people say that Adolin just gets stuff without having to fight for them, with Maya being the prime example. He revives her because he happens to be nice. That is really not the case. If he revives her, he does that because he chooses to be nice. That is not always easy. We see Adolin struggle with how to be, how to act, who to be. He chooses to be the good person he is. He is not born great, just as Amaram, Mr T or whoever isn’t born evil. It is the choices that matter, and I think Adolin demonstrates that. 

And then, he also has his fear of not matching expectations, his fierce loyalty to his family, his temper, his love for dueling and his love for Renarin. He is a rather complex guy. And I realize people might dislike him because he is, in some aspects, too perfect. Thats fine. I dislike Jasnah for that same reason. But I think saying that he is a flat character without an arc or personality, who gets everything served to him, is a stretch.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Toaster Retribution

[Bigmikey357]

1 hour ago, SLNC said:

In my eyes, this question doesn't make much sense to ask, because he's obviously part of the plot now - just like Sadeas was. I can't say, how the plot would have changed without him. However, I don't believe, that his character is something that brings much to the table in regards to the whole package of the Stormlight Archive. Books are more than just stories.

Basically what I'm saying is this. You're obviously here because you're a fan of SA. If a character you do not like was removed from the narrative, would that make your enjoyment of the series increase? I do a little writing so I am always aware of the author's narrative choices and compromises, at least on rereads. And I think a part of the reason I like Adolin is because he aids the big 4 without overshadowing their awesomeness. Without him the characters have to put in a lot more work and would likely fail several of the tests Brandon sets forth for them. Does Kal learn to trust Lighteyes without Adolin? Maybe, but the journey is harder. Does Dalinar come to the realization that he ain't crazy? Again not sure, but maybe Dalinar still doubts himself without someone to push him to examine himself. And a confident Renarin looks a lot like a Radiant Adolin. What a disaster when Renarin tries to emulate Dalinar instead. The Chasmfiend hunt.

Anyway, my opinion only. Take from it what u will.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

You're obviously here because you're a fan of SA. If a character you do not like was removed from the narrative, would that make your enjoyment of the series increase?

I'm a fan of Sanderson's books in general, my opinion of SA has dropped quite a bit after Oathbringer.

And, quite frankly, yes, I think, it would. I can't say for sure, because I don't know how the story would have changed without Adolin in it (or if he died at the end of WoK, like he did in WoK Prime). But Adolin is a huge detriment to my enjoyment of reading SA currently, so my answer is yes.

 

[insert_anagram_here]

Adolin is like being served plain rice after having steak, chicken curry and sushi for three nights in a row. It just leaves you disappointed. Certainly, for some people, it could be a nice break from overindulgence, but personally, I'd prefer to skip dinner than just have plain rice. So yeah, I'd prefer if he didn't exist as a character if his path is just 'so simple it works' especially after all the juxtapositions to Kaladin in WoR that ended up moot.

[Bigmikey357]

Nothing in life is sure. But the story is written. And in the end neither of our opinions are the be-all-end-all. I know that it constantly surprises me how polarizing Adolin is in the fandom. 

Just outta curiosity since I know I won't sway your opinion, assuming Adolin doesn't die what would you like to see Adolin do that wouldn't cause you to drop SA? If nothing, that's cool. Like I said, juss asking.

[Toaster Retribution]

20 minutes ago, insert_anagram_here said:

Adolin is like being served plain rice after having steak, chicken curry and sushi for three nights in a row. 

I cant make chicken curry. I can probably make rice though. And I can be an okay cook even if I can’t make chicken curry. Rice and fish sticks work. I think that is the point of Adolin. Most people in real life aren’t chicken curry. Most are rice, or mashed potatoes. And Adolin is the character that shows that thats fine. Rice can be a great meal. You don’t need to have a super-tragic backstory or an amazing redemption arc to be a hero. Being a good guy is enough. I think that is what Adolin represents, and that is why he is important. 

Also, I love your food metaphor. 

Edited February 15, 2019 by Toaster Retribution

[insert_anagram_here]

1 minute ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Most people in real aren’t chicken curry. Most are rice, or mashed potatoes

If I wanted real people I wouldn't be reading fantasy books

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

Just outta curiosity since I know I won't sway your opinion, assuming Adolin doesn't die what would you like to see Adolin do that wouldn't cause you to drop SA?

That what I'd even prefer before him dying. Going down a darker path.

Because I don't even believe him to be such a "good guy". Re: @Toaster Retribution

Adolin isn't exactly a good guy. Good guys don't kill people, because they threaten and provoke and then don't feel bad about it. Good guys don't relish in slaughtering Parshendi, even if they are "the enemy". What Adolin is, is likable. Charismatic, good-looking. The stuff, that blinds people. Dalinar even admits it, that his son isn't the man he thought he was.

Kaladin wasn't a good guy either. Dalinar, too. But they at least try to be better. That is the key difference. They know they did awful things in the past and they accept it. They accept it and try to do better. I don't see anything of that in Adolin. He and Sadeas are actually very alike. Both are Machiavellians, consequentialists.

The end justifies the means, morals suck. And I hope you're not trying to tell me, that Sadeas was a good guy after all.

[Mage of Lirigon]

3 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said:

I have always believed that Adolin gets judged unfairly because Brandon is a trope breaker. 

Quite true. I've also thought shipping to have a great deal to do with it as well.

 

Quote

The thing is though, is that Adolin isn't simple.

Also true. I think people mistake the difference between Adolin's more grounded narrative and the often largerthan life tales of Adolin, Shallan and Dalinar as simplicity.

 

2 hours ago, SLNC said:

I absolutely have to disagree here. He didn't do more there than he did in previous courtships, even made the same mistakes like ogling the waitress on their first date, and those always fell apart, because of his lack of willingness to work. This time he was lucky because of Shallan's desperation.

Do we even know enough about his previous courtships to gauge the difference in effort, if any, he puts in his courtship with Shallan? His conversations with others certainly make it sound like he tried harder.

 

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He does take responsibility. Sometimes, when it suits and helps him to do so. Not when he needs to.

He took responsibility in the first book, when he felt the need to point out his father's mistakes, even though it hurt him to do it.

 

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If he did that, he would have become king, because that is when his princedom, his country and, most of all, his father needed him.

Dalinar has been living vicariously through Adolin since the day he was born, so he might have needed it yes, the way he needed to drink to drown out Evi's tears.

But considering the state Alethkar and the world is in, do you really think they needed Adolin as king of Alethkar? That he would have been the best choice? Part of responsibility is knowing when not to take up burdens, because it's not just your life you're carrying.

 

Quote

All other Radiants, that attained radiancy not through squireship, went through a proverbial hell to gain that and he should get it because he strokes his Shardblade sometimes? No, I don't think so.

I've never gotten this idea that Radiancy is a payment you get for suffering enough. Radiancy is something you get for choosing to be better, when you don't have to be. Suffering is optional.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Mage of Lirigon

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Mage of Lirigon said:

Part of responsibility is knowing when not to take up burdens, because it's not just your life you're carrying.

If that was why Adolin turned it down, I would agree. It wasn't. He was scared.

2 minutes ago, Mage of Lirigon said:

Radiancy is something you get for choosing to be better, when you don't have to be. Suffering is optional.

Well, Adolin isn't doing that. Read my post above.

[Toaster Retribution]

9 minutes ago, insert_anagram_here said:

If I wanted real people I wouldn't be reading fantasy books

I think we do want real people though. Real people in extraordinary positions and world. That is good fantasy (for me). And that is why we care about Brandons characters: because they feel real. And that is why I think that Adolin is important. Because he shows that you dont need to be extraordinary to be a hero. He is inspiring without being unachieveable. 

@SLNC Adolin killed Torol because he was about to attempt bringing down Dalinar, the Kholin family and the future of humanity on Roshar. Was it morally correct? I don’t know. Was it an evil act? I dont think so. He did it partially because he couldn’t control himself, which isn’t bad, and partially out of a desire to protect his family, and innocent people. Torol kills to improve his own position, and gain power. The motive makes the man. 

And basically every Alethi relished in killing because of Odiums influence. That isn’t unique for Adolin, and not to be blamed on him. He also stopped enjoying it in WoR. 

[Llayne]

I generally like what we've been shown of Adolin so far. I thought the scenes of him confronting his father in book one were well done, his actions after the duel in book two showed how honorable AND spoiled he could be, and that book three might have shown the first signs of him 'cracking.'

Though the books haven't dug too deeply into it yet, the feeling that he isn't living up to how his father, brother and most of society sees him can be a terrible burden. How long has that been going on I wonder?

The books HAVE shown that things come easy to him, they have also shown, both implicitly and explicitly, that he's had to work for them as well. This strikes me as a kid who is athletically gifted and became high school quarterback... hard work can be relative when you have natural talent.

He's now seen things are a lot more dangerous than his natural ability can handle. He's 'gone to college to play with the big boys' and he's way outside of his comfort zone. Does he have the grit to truly work hard and learn what he needs to learn or will he stick with what he's comfortable with?

I'd say at the end of Oathbringer the answer was no. He turned down the crown in order to remain a High Prince, duelist and general... things he's been preparing for his entire life. Given that he already has concerns about living up to what others think of him, how is he going to react knowing that he turned his back on his duty?

I don't see Adolin as shallow, but we have only been given a limited POV... a very small slice of what I hope is a longer arc. Much like the tension in a horror movie comes from the suspense, part of the reason I enjoy Adolin as a character is because he's not the MC/designated hero and I don't know what's going to happen. 

 

[Bigmikey357]

Jasnah is an ends justify means type of gal. Yet she's progressing quite nicely. Sadeas is a good guy in his own story, 99% of the population of any world, real or fictional would vehemently disagree with him. And as far as Adolin killing Sadeas, I think you're downplaying the threat he posed to make a point. Sadeas, the dude who already succeeded in killing a quarter of his army, the leader of the opposition when it's clear they have bigger problems than a squabble between highprinces, threatens to kill everyone he loves for the sake of personal ambition, and has both the troops and the will to back up everything he says and get away scott free. If you were Addie, would you feel bad for ending him? And he does feel guilty about it, he's just not sorry he did it. Otherwise why confess at all?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Torol kills to improve his own position, and gain power. The motive makes the man.

Adolin kills to keep and consolidate his family's power. He eliminated a political rival. i don't see the difference.

[Toaster Retribution]

4 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Adolin kills to keep and consolidate his family's power. He eliminated a political rival. i don't see the difference.

What Sadeas did was the political version of rushing you with an axe, screaming -die, you bastard!-. Adolin acted in self-defense. 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

If you were Addie, would you feel bad for ending him?

Unimportant. This is about morality and not my opinion.

14 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

And he does feel guilty about it, he's just not sorry he did it. Otherwise why confess at all?

This is exactly not feeling guilty about the act. What he maybe is feeling guilty about is not feeling guilt.

He didn't plan to "confess". He only did it when he could exploit it to not become king, because he was scared of it.

7 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

What Sadeas did was the political version of rushing you with an axe, screaming -die, you bastard!-. Adolin acted in self-defense. 

There is no "self-defense" in politics. There are only assassinations to eliminate rivals.

Edited February 15, 2019 by SLNC

[Mage of Lirigon]

38 minutes ago, insert_anagram_here said:

If I wanted real people I wouldn't be reading fantasy books

You need variety. Chicken curry wouldn't taste half so good, without a little rice as a side dish.

 

29 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Adolin isn't exactly a good guy. Good guys don't kill people, because they threaten and provoke and then don't feel bad about it. What Adolin is, is likable. Charismatic, good-looking. The stuff, that blinds people. Dalinar even admits it, that his son isn't the man he thought he was.

Sadeas died because he was crem. Adolin lost control of himself for sure, but let's not pretend Sadeas was an innocent bystander. And frankly, Sadeas deserves no sorrow from Adolin or anyone that was at the Tower the day he betrayed them, none at all.

 

Quote

Good guys don't relish in slaughtering Parshendi, even if they are "the enemy".

That was Thrill. When it was gone, he was disgusted by the killing.

 

21 minutes ago, SLNC said:

If that was why Adolin turned it down, I would agree. It wasn't. He was scared.

He was scared, yes. Scared because he thought he wasn't equal to the task, and he was right. Being afraid is not always a cause for shame and redoubling of efforts. Sometimes, it's cause for stopping, thinking, and choosing something different.

 

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Well, Adolin isn't doing that. Read my post above.

 He does, though. It's not as dramatic as i is with Dalinar, but he does in his own small way. That doesn't make his efforts any less worthy.

 

 

18 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Adolin kills to keep and consolidate his family's power. He eliminated a political rival. i don't see the difference.

That's not why he did it.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Mage of Lirigon