[theory][Stormlight] Rosharan system and Desolations

[insert_anagram_here]

I was going to post in Stormlight forums initially, but some WoBs are mentioning worldhopping so I thought it safe to post here instead.

I apologize for the vagueness that is about to follow, I'm not sure for a lot of things revolving around this theory, so try and consider this as a starting point for discussion and share knowledge. I’m also not sure if this has been discussed here before, and if yes please point me in the right direction.

Apart from various discussions I've had the last few months about several of the following points, what incited this madness of a theory is this WoB about “the Heralds needing to leave for a Desolation to end, but not all of them have to.”

But let me take things back, further back, before I bring you into it.

[1 – Shadesmar / Roshar correlation]

So I made this little image in order to possibly help with what I am imagining about Shadesmar.

We know from the map that where land exists on Physical, it’s a sea of beads in Shadesmar. So from this, I am assuming that the heightmap of the land is inverted between the two Realms. The high points and mountains on Physical are deep parts in the sea of beads. The ground below sea level in the Physical is the dark sky in Shadesmar. And the air in the Physical is part of the ‘land’ in Shadesmar.

[2 – The shapeshifting land]

The Rosharan map looks like a Julian set, so this implies it is an ever-changing structure. This could be happening by the distribution of crem and the Highstorm cycles, magically shifting the ground from one shape to the next with the passage of time. Because we have in-book maps that persist for hundreds of years, I'm assuming this phenomenon takes thousands of years to make a huge difference and it’s not something our characters are ever going to witness firsthand (at least not the immortal ones).

[3 – Shapeshifting Shadesmar?]

What would be especially interesting to consider in such a scenario is the corresponding change happening in the Cognitive Realm as a result of this.

It could mean that the sea parts of Shadesmar would be continuously shifting, changing shape, providing Cognitive land access to places that didn't have it before and removing that same access later.

On the other hand, we know that Shadesmar is the access point to and from other planets, with WoBs stating that Worldhoppers could possibly 'step in between light years' of distance when traveling between planets through the Cognitive Realm.

Assuming the first humans to arrive on Roshar did this while the Julia set was aligning in such a way to allow passage from Ashyn, this would mean that the Heralds lived in an age where Shadesmar's mystery and functionality was already explored. They would've probably known that if you traveled to ‘a moon patch' that represents a planet and explore it it would allow land to 'grow' on Shadesmar.

[4 – Rosharan planets made of air]

So to reach the topic of the thread, what if the 10 gas giants around Roshar are actually the Tranquiline Halls, the pathways to Damnation from where Odium's Desolations could be ‘walled off’?

Since the air in Physical would translate to land in Shadesmar, could it be that by visiting a gas giant and exploring it, a huge wall of land would appear in Shadesmar, all of a sudden? Could it be that each Herald was supposed to 'go back' to each one of the gas giant planets, in order to 'create a wall’ on the Shadesmar side, that would protect Roshar from Odium’s influence?

Could it be that the Heralds were continuously tortured and killed in order to make them forget that part and the walls in Shadesmar to break down?

Could it be that the Heralds eventually found out that not all of the ‘walls’ were needed in order to shield Roshar? That Odium only arrived from one direction in Shadesmar, one planet, and by leaving that one Herald corresponding to that wall, it was enough?

 

 

[RShara]

I remember a passage in the books about how the Heralds were supposed to go back together, to support each other, to hide, fight, be captured, and tortured. Ah, found it. It was something the Stormfather said.

Quote

ONCE ONE BROKE, ALL TEN HERALDS RETURNED TO ROSHAR. THEY FOUGHT. THEY LED MEN. THEIR OATHPACT DELAYED THE FUSED FROM RETURNING IMMEDIATELY, BUT EACH TIME AFTER A DESOLATION, THE HERALDS RETURNED TO DAMNATION TO SEAL THE ENEMY AGAIN. TO HIDE, FIGHT, AND FINALLY WITHSTAND TOGETHER.

Quote

AFTER EACH DESOLATION, THE HERALDS RETURNED TO DAMNATION, the Stormfather said. IF THEY DIED IN THE FIGHTING, THEY WENT THERE AUTOMATICALLY. AND THOSE WHO SURVIVED WENT BACK WILLINGLY AT THE END. THEY HAD BEEN WARNED THAT IF ANY LINGERED, IT COULD LEAD TO DISASTER. BESIDES, THEY NEEDED TO BE TOGETHER, IN DAMNATION, TO SHARE THE BURDEN OF TORTURE IF ONE WAS CAPTURED. BUT THIS TIME, AN ODDITY OCCURRED. THROUGH COWARDICE OR LUCK, THEY AVOIDED DEATH. NONE WERE KILLED IN BATTLE—EXCEPT ONE.

So it seems like they had to be relatively close to each other?

There's also the bit from Khriss in the Ars Arcanum saying the third planet was the one populated by sapient Splinters.

[insert_anagram_here]

damnation, I completely forgot that they were automatically sent back if they died.

Do we have any indication from the rest of the Cosmere what happens when a heavily Invested person dies? Is there like a 'tether' that sends them back to their original planet or something?

[RShara]

The only ones I can think of were Lightsong and Kelsier, and

Spoiler

they died on their own planet.

 

[insert_anagram_here]

So at least I know what books I need to re-read to gain more inspiration for this.

How I would adjust the above theory is that the Heralds shut themselves on the other side of those walls for some reason. But if their memory disappears when they die like how it happens for the Returned, I cannot see how those walls could stay in Shadesmar after they died and went back to Braize.

Edited February 14, 2019 by insert_anagram_here

[RShara]

I don't think their memories disappear. They seem to remember their pasts pretty well. Ash refers to Adonalsium, remembers Hoid, and is still in love with Taln. Kalak remembers Jezrien and Taln's histories.

[insert_anagram_here]

Yes, you are right. So at least Heralds are different from the Returned in that regard.

[RShara]

57 minutes ago, insert_anagram_here said:

Yes, you are right. So at least Heralds are different from the Returned in that regard.

Yeah. We even have a WoB now that says the Heralds' bodies are created for them when they respawn. Blew me away, for sure.

[insert_anagram_here]

12 hours ago, RShara said:

Yeah. We even have a WoB now that says the Heralds' bodies are created for them when they respawn. Blew me away, for sure.

I'm derailing from the original topic here, but have you ever noticed that the Ten Essenses have a 'Body Focus' part?  Maybe their bodies are made with Soulcasting all Ten Essenses, if that's possible. I wonder what a 'cost' for that process would be, having in mind that Kaza is turning into smoke. Would 'making' another body, 'unmake' the original Soulcaster doing it?

Yeah, blown away indeed.

Edited February 15, 2019 by insert_anagram_here

[+Oltux72]

On 2/14/2019 at 8:02 PM, RShara said:

The only ones I can think of were Lightsong and Kelsier, and

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they died on their own planet.

 

The Lord Ruler, Vin & Elend.

[Turin Turambar]

On 2/14/2019 at 3:38 PM, RShara said:

Yeah. We even have a WoB now that says the Heralds' bodies are created for them when they respawn. Blew me away, for sure.

Is this where in that thing by each chapter, somebody says that they are forming a new avatar, and they instilled a strong aversion to somebody?

[+Invocation]

9 minutes ago, Turin Turambar said:

Is this where in that thing by each chapter, somebody says that they are forming a new avatar, and they instilled a strong aversion to somebody?

No, that's an Autonomy version of avatar that's been given a dislike of Hoid. The Heralds aren't avatars in the same way, just people being reborn.

[Turin Turambar]

same bodies (are they the same people each time?)

[RShara]

3 minutes ago, Turin Turambar said:

same bodies (are they the same people each time?)

Not sure what you're asking, exactly. Whether they're reborn looking the same? They are, yes.