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The magic dagger and Jasnah's plans


Oltux72

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It is possible that the Oathpact did not bind the Unmade and Thunderclasts. From my reading, it looked like the Oathpact only bound the Fused to Braize and contained the bulk of Odium's forces. It is easier to deal with an Unmade with out having to worry about a bunch of angry, armed, flying parshmen.

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2 hours ago, equinox said:

Ah.. I think now I understand you better. You mean that due to the nine Heralds abandoning Taln, the False Desolation was actually a Desolation starting. Taln only held back the Fused, but not the Unmade? You mean the Unmade were banned from Roshar between desolations and only the weakening Oathpact enabled BAM to distribute voidlight?

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There is a certain period of time that they can be there, and after that, if they're there, they will start a new one. So the Heralds do need to leave for a Desolation to end

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THEY HAD BEEN WARNED THAT IF ANY LINGERED, IT COULD LEAD TO DISASTER...

From the WoB you linked and the Stormfather’s words, the Heralds shouldn’t have lingered when Taln died, they should’ve fought whatever forces were on Roshar and then go back to Braize. ( In my theory, I think they were supposed to go back and seal the Unmade.)

From Jezrien’s words in the Prologue, Ishar had a plan. I think that plan was to bind whatever free Unmade were left into Gemstones, use the Radiants to defeat leftover forces and maybe even ‘gentle’ the Parshmen. (that could’ve also been a plan that came as a later discovery)

We have an indication that Melishi bound Ba-Ado-Mishram at least once ( but Gavilar had multiple Polestomes filled with Voidlight), so I think Ishar’s plan actually succeeded, at least for a while.

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HOWEVER, IF ANY ONE OF THE TEN AGREED TO BEND HIS OATH AND LET VOIDBRINGERS PAST, IT OPENED A FLOOD. THEY COULD ALL RETURN ... THAT STARTED A DESOLATION...

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But what Ishar didn’t calculate was that the floodgates were open.

( Within my theory ‘They could all return’ should refer to the Unmade, who were empowering the Fused. Voidbringers could mean both Fused and Unmade. )

So the Unmade slowly became more and more powerful on Roshar, to the point that he couldn’t bound them into gemstones anymore. He probably targeted the most dangerous ones first, that’s why Nergaoul and Re-shephir might’ve been free to roam. And of course, he didn’t have a backup plan in case Taln broke, which brought the Everstorm and the Regals.

2 hours ago, equinox said:

I haven't found any definite WoB to support or weaken your idea. Just a quite old WoB indicating that Taln's return suffices. Another WoB says that Thunderclasts can exist on Roshar outside of Desolations. But I found nothing on Unmade activities between Desolations (but I am usually not very good at WoB-hunting :lol:).

Thank you for the WoBs and the effort! I think it’s interesting that Thunderclasts normally shouldn’t exist outside a Desolation but theoretically, they can. Maybe that WoB hints that when a Desolation normally ended (and, in my theory, the Unmade were sealed) Thunderclasts were supposed to die down. Or maybe that WoB indicates that the False Desolation might only be "false" in theory, but not actually.

1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

Interesting theory. Not sure I agree, but interesting way of viewing the events. So basically all this time humanity has been experiencing a desolation, but because it wasn't kicked off with an attack, everyone thought everything was ok? (genuinely asking)

Yes, I think all the flashbacks we have are after Aharietiam (right?). So that means that they are all during or after the False Desolation. The Heralds never went back on Braize to seal the Unmade, they just did a ‘patch up’ work with imprisoning them in gemstones.

2 hours ago, equinox said:

This was obviously before OB. But with Jezrien being killed killed, does that mean the Oathpact is dead as well? Killing Heralds to return them to Braize won't do a thing then? Right? 

My personal take is that if Unmade can be freed from Polestones, so should Heralds from magic daggers :P

But if they cannot be freed and each ‘freed’ Unmade is basically a separate ‘instance’ that could mean that Jezrien is indeed perma-perma-perma dead.

I think that would mean that they cannot seal the Unmade back on Braize anymore. Even if the Heralds/Radiants somehow manage to defeat them they’ll keep coming back sooner or later because one of the floodgates, corresponding to Jezrien, will remain open.

Edit:

47 minutes ago, Gasper said:

From my reading, it looked like the Oathpact only bound the Fused to Braize and contained the bulk of Odium's forces. It is easier to deal with an Unmade with out having to worry about a bunch of angry, armed, flying parshmen.

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Sorry to highjack the thread! Yes, of course, it could mean the Oathpact only bound the Fused, I was just proposing a theory.

 

Edited by insert_anagram_here
added the bit for Gasper and typos of course
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@insert_anagram_here I suppose anything's possible.  However, nothing that the Stormfather says has anything to do with the Unmade, only the Fused.  Also, in the WoB that's been linked a couple times, Brandon explicitly says that "As long as one remains, the Desolation will not start again."  Which seems pretty clear.  

 

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luke.spence (paraphrased)

What caused a Desolation to end? Was it just the defeat of Odium's forces? Because the Desolations start when the Heralds break under torture.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Because the Heralds can no longer be in existence. There is a certain period of time that they can be there, and after that, if they're there, they will start a new one. So the Heralds do need to leave for a Desolation to end

darkanimereal1 (paraphrased)

Oh. So they've got a time limit.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

They do. Otherwise the Desolation will start again. What they discovered is not all of them have to. As long as one remains, the Desolation will not start again.

luke.spence (paraphrased)

So, by the nine leaving, did that actually break the Oathpact for them? Did it change the cycle of Desolations?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

They have not completely broken the Oathpact, despite what they may think.

Words of Radiance Dayton signing (March 19, 2014)
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@Scion of the Mists I thought I referred to that point in my previous post. The WoB says that the Heralds discovered that not all of them have to leave but that didn't break the Oathpact despite what they may think. So I think Sanderson meant to imply that is how the Heralds perceive it, not necessarily what is actually happening.

But yes, anything is possible, either interpretation. I just wanted to put out there what my theory currently is, in case it sparked any interest to anyone. You can continue the discussion thread with its original topic, I didn't mean to highjack here.

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