The magic dagger and Jasnah's plans

[Pathfinder]

1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

The Stormfather info dumps a good description in Oathbringer (ch 38):

And this was Jasnah's response/rationale to that info dump (for some reason I cannot unbold the quote, so I changed the color of the portion I wished to highlight)

"The Stormfather laid it out" Jasnah said unperturbed “The Heralds made a pact. When they died, their souls traveled to Damnation and trapped the spirits of the Voidbringers, preventing them from returning. The Stormfather said their pact was weakened, but did not say it was destroyed” Jasnah said “I suggest we at least see if one of them is willing to return to Damnation. Perhaps they can still prevent the spirits of the enemy from being reborn."

[Scion of the Mists]

2 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

And this was Jasnah's response/rationale to that info dump (for some reason I cannot unbold the quote, so I changed the color of the portion I wished to highlight)

"The Stormfather laid it out" Jasnah said unperturbed “The Heralds made a pact. When they died, their souls traveled to Damnation and trapped the spirits of the Voidbringers, preventing them from returning. The Stormfather said their pact was weakened, but did not say it was destroyed” Jasnah said “I suggest we at least see if one of them is willing to return to Damnation. Perhaps they can still prevent the spirits of the enemy from being reborn."

I had forgotten that she said that.  I still think it makes no sense.  The Oathpact very clearly bound the Fused even when all the Heralds were on Roshar (i.e. during the Desolations).  Them being on Roshar or Braize only mattered after the Desolation was over.  The Fused are reborn via the Everstorm even in the middle of this Desolation, therefore, the binding mechanism is not working, Herald on Braize or no.  

[+Oltux72]

1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I had forgotten that she said that.  I still think it makes no sense.  The Oathpact very clearly bound the Fused even when all the Heralds were on Roshar (i.e. during the Desolations). 

How do we know that? Breaking the Oathpact gave each Fused a trip from Braize to Roshar. We do not actually know whether the Oathpact or the lack of an Everstorm prevented further returns.

1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Them being on Roshar or Braize only mattered after the Desolation was over.  The Fused are reborn via the Everstorm even in the middle of this Desolation, therefore, the binding mechanism is not working, Herald on Braize or no.  

If the Everstorm keeps working even with Heralds on Braize, we need to wonder how to ever end this Desolation. How many Fused are there? Will they ever run out of Singers?

[equinox]

1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I had forgotten that she said that.  I still think it makes no sense.  The Oathpact very clearly bound the Fused even when all the Heralds were on Roshar (i.e. during the Desolations).  Them being on Roshar or Braize only mattered after the Desolation was over.  The Fused are reborn via the Everstorm even in the middle of this Desolation, therefore, the binding mechanism is not working, Herald on Braize or no.  

I guess we have to rafo. I agree with your logic, but we can't be sure until we see what happens. Jasnah could be right as well (oh. I just realize I disagree with Jasnah ). Maybe a Herald on Braize makes all the difference. Maybe not. But I also guess that the Heralds' madness isn't of much help either. I don't think they would hold up on Braize for long.

[Scion of the Mists]

28 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I had forgotten that she said that.  I still think it makes no sense.  The Oathpact very clearly bound the Fused even when all the Heralds were on Roshar (i.e. during the Desolations). 

How do we know that? Breaking the Oathpact gave each Fused a trip from Braize to Roshar. We do not actually know whether the Oathpact or the lack of an Everstorm prevented further returns.

The Stormfather says "YOUR HERALDS SEALED THE SPREN OF THE DEAD INTO THE PLACE YOU CALL DAMNATION" - I think that's pretty cut and dried.  

[+Oltux72]

Just now, Scion of the Mists said:

The Stormfather says "YOUR HERALDS SEALED THE SPREN OF THE DEAD INTO THE PLACE YOU CALL DAMNATION" - I think that's pretty cut and dried.  

Except that apparently they did also seal them while they were on Roshar.

Why coud the Fused make one and only one trip from Braize to Roshar per Desolation?

[Pathfinder]

2 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I had forgotten that she said that.  I still think it makes no sense.  The Oathpact very clearly bound the Fused even when all the Heralds were on Roshar (i.e. during the Desolations).  Them being on Roshar or Braize only mattered after the Desolation was over.  The Fused are reborn via the Everstorm even in the middle of this Desolation, therefore, the binding mechanism is not working, Herald on Braize or no.  

No worries. I respect that you interpret that way. Personally I think it is a combination of three factors. First, they are operating on information they have in world. Second, spren, including the Stormfather, information in my opinion tends to be suspect unless explicitly verified by another source as we see their memory or even how they see things can alter their recollection and or even the accuracy of their statements. Third, I took Jasnah's rationale is going on the minimal information they have, they need to be proactive during an extinction level event and research any means of stemming or even remotely slowing down the tide. They know heralds can and have repeatedly returned to life, so asking one to return, or killing one, would lose nothing even if they returned immediately. That possibility is worth the risk considering what they were dealing with. At least that is how I read it. As I said, you are perfectly entitled to disagree with my reading, and or disagree with her potential rationale

[Scion of the Mists]

16 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

16 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

The Stormfather says "YOUR HERALDS SEALED THE SPREN OF THE DEAD INTO THE PLACE YOU CALL DAMNATION" - I think that's pretty cut and dried.  

Except that apparently they did also seal them while they were on Roshar.

I'm not sure what the exception is that you're seeing.  The Heralds, via the Oathpact, sealed the Fused in Damnation, unless they violated the agreement, which could happen in two different ways.  First, they had the ability to "bend [their] oath" and voluntarily "let the Voidbringers past" (i.e. break under torture, triggering a new Desolation).  Second, they (well, really only one Herald) were required to return to Braize within a set period of time following a Desolation, or it would trigger a new one.  

The Oathpact is still in force (i.e. binding dead Fused to Braize) during the Desolation.  That's the whole point of the Oathpact - it'd be impossible for a Desolation to end otherwise.  

 

16 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Why coud the Fused make one and only one trip from Braize to Roshar per Desolation?

The Fused could only make the trip when the Oathpact was violated, for one of the two reasons listed above: Herald broke from torture, or refusal to return to Braize.  

 

@Pathfinder I understand your point.  I think that (given what we as out-of-world readers know), Jasnah's plan is guaranteed to fail.  However, Jasnah may not have all the information we have (even the in-world info available; do we know Dalinar recited the Stormfather's words verbatim?).  Plus, it's defensible (in a Machiavellian sense) to try a long shot plan to save the world, hoping that some of the knowledge you have is wrong or something unexpected would happen.  

Edited February 14, 2019 by Scion of the Mists
Forgot to respond to Pathfinder

[+Oltux72]

8 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I'm not sure what the exception is that you're seeing.  The Heralds, via the Oathpact, sealed the Fused in Damnation, unless they violated the agreement, which could happen in two different ways.  First, they had the ability to "bend [their] oath" and voluntarily "let the Voidbringers past" (i.e. break under torture, triggering a new Desolation).  Second, they (well, really only one Herald) were required to return to Braize within a set period of time following a Desolation, or it would trigger a new one.  

The Oathpact is still in force (i.e. binding dead Fused to Braize) during the Desolation.  That's the whole point of the Oathpact - it'd be impossible for a Desolation to end otherwise.  

Well, that raises questions.

1. Why not keep a sigle Fused captive to technically draw out a Desolation?
2. Why does the Everstorm work?

8 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

The Fused could only make the trip when the Oathpact was violated, for one of the two reasons listed above: Herald broke from torture, or refusal to return to Braize.  

So they got one trip per violation?
 

 

[Scion of the Mists]

4 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Well, that raises questions.

1. Why not keep a sigle Fused captive to technically draw out a Desolation?
2. Why does the Everstorm work?

1. We don't know how "end of a Desolation" is defined.  But yeah, that's a good idea to try to "cheat" the rules.  
2. We don't know.  I have a theory (which I've been meaning to write up for ages) that the Everstorm is Odium's perpendicularity.  Evidence being:
   • The Stormfather says it's "a new thing, but old of design" - which could mean that it's been on Braize ever since he got stuck there (Shardpools come from "spending a lot of time on a world") and he just moved it
   • Brandon has said that "there are Shards whose Shardpools are not on a planet they currently inhabit. At least one."
   • The Everstorm distributes Investiture, just like a Shardpool does

 

4 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

So they got one trip per violation?

Yes.  I think of it as a prison break.  When a Herald "agreed [to] let Voidbringers past, it opened a flood. They could all return."  Basically the Herald who broke opened the gates to the prison, but only temporarily.  

[Pathfinder]

2 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I'm not sure what the exception is that you're seeing.  The Heralds, via the Oathpact, sealed the Fused in Damnation, unless they violated the agreement, which could happen in two different ways.  First, they had the ability to "bend [their] oath" and voluntarily "let the Voidbringers past" (i.e. break under torture, triggering a new Desolation).  Second, they (well, really only one Herald) were required to return to Braize within a set period of time following a Desolation, or it would trigger a new one.  

The Oathpact is still in force (i.e. binding dead Fused to Braize) during the Desolation.  That's the whole point of the Oathpact - it'd be impossible for a Desolation to end otherwise.  

 

The Fused could only make the trip when the Oathpact was violated, for one of the two reasons listed above: Herald broke from torture, or refusal to return to Braize.  

 

@Pathfinder I understand your point.  I think that (given what we as out-of-world readers know), Jasnah's plan is guaranteed to fail.  However, Jasnah may not have all the information we have (even the in-world info available; do we know Dalinar recited the Stormfather's words verbatim?).  Plus, it's defensible (in a Machiavellian sense) to try a long shot plan to save the world, hoping that some of the knowledge you have is wrong or something unexpected would happen.  

I am inclined to agree with Jasnah's interpretation of the Stormfather's words. He said it was weakened to near annihilation. That still does not mean destroyed, which still does not mean the function won't work at all. I also maintain had Kaladin talked to Rlain at that point and listened to him (Rlain brings this up), Kaladin would know that the parshmen require being open to the change in order for it to take place. I think that had Kaladin brought that up, that would have changed the entire meeting. Then Jasnah could take in this new information regarding the mechanism of fused possessing the parshmen. She could then theorize that if they could convince the parshmen that the fused did not have the parshmens best interests in mind, and refuse the change, Odium would lose his never ending army. 

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Well, that raises questions.

1. Why not keep a sigle Fused captive to technically draw out a Desolation?
2. Why does the Everstorm work?

So they got one trip per violation?
 

 

1. Ba-Ado-Mishram attempted this by powering the listeners with voidlight to continue the desolation longer. it was termed the false desolation

2. like Scion said, I don't think we truly know. 

 

[+Oltux72]

Just now, Pathfinder said:

II also maintain had Kaladin talked to Rlain at that point and listened to him (Rlain brings this up), Kaladin would know that the parshmen require being open to the change in order for it to take place. I think that had Kaladin brought that up, that would have changed the entire meeting. Then Jasnah could take in this new information regarding the mechanism of fused possessing the parshmen. She could then theorize that if they could convince the parshmen that the fused did not have the parshmens best interests in mind, and refuse the change, Odium would lose his never ending army.

There are many Parshmen and comparatively few Fused. You would need to be incredibly persuasive to be successful. And there aere still the Forms of Power to be considered. And mankind didn't fare that well in the last Desolations without an Everstorm. And they had a full corps of Knights Radiant and sane Heralds.

[Scion of the Mists]

8 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

I am inclined to agree with Jasnah's interpretation of the Stormfather's words. He said it was weakened to near annihilation. That still does not mean destroyed, which still does not mean the function won't work at all.

Yes, the Oathpact is still in existence.  I'm not arguing that.  I'm saying that it's functionally useless.  It's entire purpose was to prevent the Fused on Braize from returning.  But the Fused don't go to Braize anymore, so it's not going to do anything.  

Killing a Herald doesn't trigger anything (as far as we know).  I suppose the possibility exists that the weakened state Oathpact is what allows the Everstorm to bypass it, and that strengthening the Oathpact may prevent the Everstorm's ability to revive the Fused (although this is pure speculation).  Even still, I don't see how killing Heralds is going to strengthen the Oathpact.  It was weakened because nine of the Heralds refused to return to Braize following the previous Desolation.  But we're in a new Desolation now and we know that the Heralds are allowed to be on Roshar during Desolations (indeed, it's basically the only time it's allowable).  

[+Oltux72]

Just now, Scion of the Mists said:

Yes, the Oathpact is still in existence.  I'm not arguing that.  I'm saying that it's functionally useless.  It's entire purpose was to prevent the Fused on Braize from returning.  But the Fused don't go to Braize anymore, so it's not going to do anything.

So what are the Knights to do? Build up an army of Listeners in Stormform to kill the Everstorm?

[Pathfinder]

11 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

There are many Parshmen and comparatively few Fused. You would need to be incredibly persuasive to be successful. And there aere still the Forms of Power to be considered. And mankind didn't fare that well in the last Desolations without an Everstorm. And they had a full corps of Knights Radiant and sane Heralds.

Basically it shows you can go about this conflict diplomatically while before you could not. Prior to this information, you could become as friendly as you want with a parshmen, but then tomorrow they show up possessed by a fused trying to kill you. After this information, by negotiating with the parshmen, and showing it is in their best interests to refuse the bond with the fused as it effectively kills them, then you 1. offer another option to the conflict and 2. begin to deplete the enemy of their primary resource. I think that is not a negligible hit to Odium

5 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Yes, the Oathpact is still in existence.  I'm not arguing that.  I'm saying that it's functionally useless.  It's entire purpose was to prevent the Fused on Braize from returning.  But the Fused don't go to Braize anymore, so it's not going to do anything.  

Killing a Herald doesn't trigger anything (as far as we know).  I suppose the possibility exists that the weakened state Oathpact is what allows the Everstorm to bypass it, and that strengthening the Oathpact may prevent the Everstorm's ability to revive the Fused (although this is pure speculation).  Even still, I don't see how killing Heralds is going to strengthen the Oathpact.  It was weakened because nine of the Heralds refused to return to Braize following the previous Desolation.  But we're in a new Desolation now and we know that the Heralds are allowed to be on Roshar during Desolations (indeed, it's basically the only time it's allowable).  

Never said it would strengthen the oathpact. I theorized that Jasnah's logic was that the oathpact still worked just enough to hold back the fused that are killed, which would prevent more parsh from being possessed, and allow for some kind of negotiation, or even just a little more time to research more options. At that time the fused is a never ending flood. Time (like the stormfather told Dalinar) is nothing to Odium, but everything to the humans. But all of this would be mute had they known in the meeting that the parsh have to open themselves up to the bond, which rlain knows, and says no one cares about because they all think he is suddenly going to change into the enemy at any moment. 

[Scion of the Mists]

7 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

So what are the Knights to do? Build up an army of Listeners in Stormform to kill the Everstorm?

I think the defeat of the Everstorm (by some unknown mechanism that I'm not creative enough to guess) is something very likely to happen.  Not only would it help solve the problem of the unkillable army, but it would also return life on Roshar to a much more habitable state.  Even if you survive the Desolation, the Everstorm is just so destructive that its continued existence would be really, really bad for everyone.  

 

2 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Never said it would strengthen the oathpact. I theorized that Jasnah's logic was that the oathpact still worked just enough to hold back the fused that are killed, which would prevent more parsh from being possessed

If not strengthen the Oathpact, what do you think killing a Herald would do?  

(Obviously we know for sure that the Fused are reborn; I suppose it's possible that Jasnah doesn't believe the Stormfather)

Edited February 14, 2019 by Scion of the Mists

[Pathfinder]

34 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I think the defeat of the Everstorm (by some unknown mechanism that I'm not creative enough to guess) is something very likely to happen.  Not only would it help solve the problem of the unkillable army, but it would also return life on Roshar to a much more habitable state.  Even if you survive the Desolation, the Everstorm is just so destructive that its continued existence would be really, really bad for everyone.  

 

If not strengthen the Oathpact, what do you think killing a Herald would do?  

(Obviously we know for sure that the Fused are reborn; I suppose it's possible that Jasnah doesn't believe the Stormfather)

Actually the Everstorm isn't that directly physical destructive unless Odium directs it to be. The lightning strikes hit specific targets, otherwise it has been remarked the storm itself isn't as upfront destructive as a highstorm that is indiscriminate. 

We do not know for sure that a fused would be reborn in the everstorm even if a herald is killed. We know a fused can come back directly through the everstorm and bond a parshmen open to it, but we do not conclusively know whether or not a herald dying would not stop a fused from returning. If the herald's existence no longer threatened Odium, then there would be no reason to kill them to the point of preventing their rebirth. At least to me. But again I respect that you think otherwise. Guess we will RAFO!

[+Oltux72]

13 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

We do not know for sure that a fused would be reborn in the everstorm even if a herald is killed. We know a fused can come back directly through the everstorm and bond a parshmen open to it, but we do not conclusively know whether or not a herald dying would not stop a fused from returning. If the herald's existence no longer threatened Odium, then there would be no reason to kill them to the point of preventing their rebirth. At least to me. But again I respect that you think otherwise. Guess we will RAFO!

They may still chain Odium to the Rosharan system. So, yes, there must be a reason, but it need not be strictly limited to the Fused. How  useful is the limited number of sane Fused anyway, compared to potentially unlimited numbers of sane Regals, voidspren as spies and Thunderclasts? The Fused are trained and experienced, but in that regard time will help team Odium train a sane cadre of officers and soldiers. He still has some experienced fighters who had served under Eshonai.

[insert_anagram_here]

This thread is gold.

As it has been said, I think that Stormfather's words as the main point of information can be misleading.

Could It could be that he is sort of mixing up the definitions of Fused and Unmade when he used the phrase 'THE SPREN OF THE DEAD '?

We know that Unmade are connected to the Desolations, right?

 

[equinox]

The Unmade are connected to Odium, but I don't think they are directly connected to the desolations. We know for sure that the Thrill was active between desolations. Moelach was also doing his trick at least well before Talenel broke. I believe the other Unmade have been around as well.

Edit: I always get my Unmade mixed up. An then the spelling ...

Edited February 15, 2019 by equinox

[insert_anagram_here]

19 minutes ago, equinox said:

We know for sure that the Thrill was active between desolations

Is this from Dalinar's visions somewhere? I can't remember.

[equinox]

5 minutes ago, insert_anagram_here said:

Is this from Dalinar's visions somewhere? I can't remember.

The Alethi knew the Thrill (Nergaoul) for a long time. Long before the True Desolation broke out. We see it firsthand in Dalinar's flashback scenes in Oathbringer. At the time, Taln was still on Braize. However, one could argue that the weakening of the Oathpact also lets the Unmade roam freely around between Desolations. I do not know whether we have WoB that explains a possible linkage between the Oathpact and the Unmade.

[insert_anagram_here]

Just now, equinox said:

The Alethi knew the Thrill (Nergaoul) for a long time. Long before the True Desolation broke out. We see it firsthand in Dalinar's flashback scenes in Oathbringer. At the time, Taln was still on Braize. However, one could argue that the weakening of the Oathpact also lets the Unmade roam freely around between Desolations. I do not know whether we have WoB that explains a possible linkage between the Oathpact and the Unmade.

Oh, so I see where the misunderstanding lies...

Because the Heralds abandoned Taln, the False Desolation isn't actually False, it's the Vorin church that was trying to cover up the fact that the Heralds didn't actually win, that named it as False. So what I'm implying here is that the beginning of the False Desolation was actually the beginning of the Desolation we are going through now. It's just that BAM was imprisoned and the Parshmen enslaved, and when Taln finally broke the Everstorm came.

[equinox]

Ah.. I think now I understand you better. You mean that due to the nine Heralds abandoning Taln, the False Desolation was actually a Desolation starting. Taln only held back the Fused, but not the Unmade? You mean the Unmade were banned from Roshar between desolations and only the weakening Oathpact enabled BAM to distribute voidlight?

I haven't found any definite WoB to support or weaken your idea. Just a quite old WoB indicating that Taln's return suffices. Another WoB says that Thunderclasts can exist on Roshar outside of Desolations. But I found nothing on Unmade activities between Desolations (but I am usually not very good at WoB-hunting ).

However, I found this interesting tidbit: 

Quote

Questioner

Are all of the Heralds still alive?

Brandon Sanderson

The Oathpact has not been broken, so yes.

Calamity release party (Feb. 16, 2016)

This was obviously before OB. But with Jezrien being killed killed, does that mean the Oathpact is dead as well? Killing Heralds to return them to Braize won't do a thing then? Right? 

[Pathfinder]

4 hours ago, equinox said:

The Alethi knew the Thrill (Nergaoul) for a long time. Long before the True Desolation broke out. We see it firsthand in Dalinar's flashback scenes in Oathbringer. At the time, Taln was still on Braize. However, one could argue that the weakening of the Oathpact also lets the Unmade roam freely around between Desolations. I do not know whether we have WoB that explains a possible linkage between the Oathpact and the Unmade.

Ba-Ado-Mishram caused the False Desolation because it was fueling the singers with voidlight to continue to battle after the last desolation ended. That implies to me that the Unmade can stick around normally. There is also the vision where the midnight essences show up, which are a product of the midnight mother, during which a radiant in the vision states it is not a desolation, but it could hint at one soon coming. There is also Odium's commentary that he had the Thrill set up in Alethkar for quite some time, and Dalinar was confirmed to be using the Thrill in his flashback chapters when they united Alethkar. So I think it is the fused that gets locked away, and maybe the Unmade are weakened but stick around. Either that, or as you posit, the weakening of the Oathpact lets them still hang around. I do lean towards your theory.

4 hours ago, insert_anagram_here said:

Oh, so I see where the misunderstanding lies...

Because the Heralds abandoned Taln, the False Desolation isn't actually False, it's the Vorin church that was trying to cover up the fact that the Heralds didn't actually win, that named it as False. So what I'm implying here is that the beginning of the False Desolation was actually the beginning of the Desolation we are going through now. It's just that BAM was imprisoned and the Parshmen enslaved, and when Taln finally broke the Everstorm came.

Interesting theory. Not sure I agree, but interesting way of viewing the events. So basically all this time humanity has been experiencing a desolation, but because it wasn't kicked off with an attack, everyone thought everything was ok? (genuinely asking)

edit: sorry re-read your and equinox's post closer. Again very interesting theory. Don't have much to further add at this moment, but could make a lot of sense. Good work!

1 hour ago, equinox said:

Ah.. I think now I understand you better. You mean that due to the nine Heralds abandoning Taln, the False Desolation was actually a Desolation starting. Taln only held back the Fused, but not the Unmade? You mean the Unmade were banned from Roshar between desolations and only the weakening Oathpact enabled BAM to distribute voidlight?

I haven't found any definite WoB to support or weaken your idea. Just a quite old WoB indicating that Taln's return suffices. Another WoB says that Thunderclasts can exist on Roshar outside of Desolations. But I found nothing on Unmade activities between Desolations (but I am usually not very good at WoB-hunting ).

However, I found this interesting tidbit: 

This was obviously before OB. But with Jezrien being killed killed, does that mean the Oathpact is dead as well? Killing Heralds to return them to Braize won't do a thing then? Right? 

Honestly I don't know the answer to what Jezrien being permanently killed means. Though I did find these two WoB that may be of interest. 

 

Questioner (paraphrased)
Was Odium able to Splinter Honor because the Heralds abandoned the Oathpact?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
Good question. Um, their abandonment of the Oathpact is related... but mostly tangentially. If I was pinned down on that, I would say no.

Questioner (paraphrased)
Is there any of the Oathpact still functioning because of Taln's continued participation?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
Yes, indeed.

 

Questioner
With the Heralds we know that there's only one left... one Herald that's still bound to the Oathpact--

Brandon Sanderson
OK, only one Herald was about, was abandoned-- You'll find out the mechanics of that in the next book.

Questioner
So are we going to see more of Taln...

Brandon Sanderson
You will see more of-- the Oathpact is not completely broken, the others are still bound to the Oathpact.

Questioner
Even though they kind of sort of said they were abandoning it?

Brandon Sanderson
Yes, so there's still connection there, so you'll find out more about all of this and how it works

Edited February 15, 2019 by Pathfinder