Nightblood is Endowment's endgame

[Stark]

Not sure if this has been theorized before, but been having thoughts, and I figured I'd write them out and get people's opinions.  My thought is that Edgli, the vessel for Endowment has really good Futuresight and manipulated events to bring a weapon like Nightblood into existence to further her goals for the Cosmere endgame.

 

First things first:  Brandon gas been cagey about how well Endowment can see the future:

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

How strong is Endowment's futuresight in comparison to other Shards?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

RAFO.

Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018)

But we know that futuresight plays a role in Endowment's Returned.  Each Returned, at the moment of their first death, is granted a vision of the future by Endowment, where they see an important event that their presence can aid in providing a favorable result.  Sometimes it is by their action - Lightsong saving the Godking.  Sometimes it is by what they can teach - Calmseer showing Lightsong the value of sacrifice and caring for others.  And then they have their memory erased so that they cannot try to pre-emptively change things and cause paradoxes.

 

Though sometimes they get hints in visions or dreams to poke them in the right direction.

 

Regardless, all Returned return for a purpose.  And that purpose involves visions of possible futures.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Some of Blushweaver's sparring here should give you a hint that she's far from the shallow egotist she pretends to be. In a lot of ways, she and Lightsong are perfectly matched, and I imagine this being the reason they ended up spending so much time together. They both have an extreme persona that is almost a parody of the other gods, and for both of them, that persona is but a sliver of who they really are. Blushweaver is more conniving, Lightsong more noble, when you strip everything else away. But they understand each other in a way that I think few people do.

Warbreaker Annotations (Nov. 30, 2010)

 

We also know that the five scholars were all Returned.  They returned, for a purpose as of yet unknown to us, though some of them may have accomplished that purpose before their demise.  Regardless, they went on to become some of the most skilled Awakeners of the era, and all highly contributed to the advancement of Awakening as a science.  They created and improved the lifeless, they discovered new commands.  And Shashara created Nightblood with Vasher.

 

Shashara is dead, killed to prevent her from creating another Nightblood, but Vasher is still lurking about, following and guiding Nightblood in his own way.  

 

So what if Edgli has top tier Futuresight, and used it to create the five scholars, knowing that they would create Nightblood.  Knowing that Nightblood and Vasher would eventually end up on Roshar in time for Odium's break-out.  Knowing that Nightblood would be a weapon that obliterates its foes on all three realms? 

 

Does anyone else feel that Edgli is playing the longest game, and that Nightblood is her endgame piece?  Her ace in the hole?

[King's Twit]

I definitely agree that Nightblood is going to be one of the most important endgame players for the Cosmere, and it does make a lot of sense that the prophetic elements of how Returned work would hint that Endowment has excellent futuresight, as it would parallel the two shards that we know have good/great futuresight: Ruin with the power of Atium and Odium with

Spoiler

Renarin's abilities

 

Edited February 7, 2019 by King's Twit

[Khyrindor]

That first WoB was my buddy's question. We are thinking along the same lines as you are, for sure. In Oathbringer, the letter from Endowment is very cocky, even suggesting that Endowment is confident that she can "deal with" Odium if he becomes a problem. With Nightblood on Roshar able to permanently kill the Voidbringers, I think it's definitely likely that Nightblood is part of her schemes in dealing with Odium, but I can't say with any certainty that he is her "end game".

[Aspiring Writer]

On 2/7/2019 at 3:11 PM, Khyrindor said:

That first WoB was my buddy's question. We are thinking along the same lines as you are, for sure. In Oathbringer, the letter from Endowment is very cocky, even suggesting that Endowment is confident that she can "deal with" Odium if he becomes a problem. With Nightblood on Roshar able to permanently kill the Voidbringers, I think it's definitely likely that Nightblood is part of her schemes in dealing with Odium, but I can't say with any certainty that he is her "end game".

 

On 2/7/2019 at 10:20 AM, Stark said:

Not sure if this has been theorized before, but been having thoughts, and I figured I'd write them out and get people's opinions.  My thought is that Edgli, the vessel for Endowment has really good Futuresight and manipulated events to bring a weapon like Nightblood into existence to further her goals for the Cosmere endgame.

 

First things first:  Brandon gas been cagey about how well Endowment can see the future:

But we know that futuresight plays a role in Endowment's Returned.  Each Returned, at the moment of their first death, is granted a vision of the future by Endowment, where they see an important event that their presence can aid in providing a favorable result.  Sometimes it is by their action - Lightsong saving the Godking.  Sometimes it is by what they can teach - Calmseer showing Lightsong the value of sacrifice and caring for others.  And then they have their memory erased so that they cannot try to pre-emptively change things and cause paradoxes.

 

Though sometimes they get hints in visions or dreams to poke them in the right direction.

 

Regardless, all Returned return for a purpose.  And that purpose involves visions of possible futures.

 

We also know that the five scholars were all Returned.  They returned, for a purpose as of yet unknown to us, though some of them may have accomplished that purpose before their demise.  Regardless, they went on to become some of the most skilled Awakeners of the era, and all highly contributed to the advancement of Awakening as a science.  They created and improved the lifeless, they discovered new commands.  And Shashara created Nightblood with Vasher.

 

Shashara is dead, killed to prevent her from creating another Nightblood, but Vasher is still lurking about, following and guiding Nightblood in his own way.  

 

So what if Edgli has top tier Futuresight, and used it to create the five scholars, knowing that they would create Nightblood.  Knowing that Nightblood and Vasher would eventually end up on Roshar in time for Odium's break-out.  Knowing that Nightblood would be a weapon that obliterates its foes on all three realms? 

 

Does anyone else feel that Edgli is playing the longest game, and that Nightblood is her endgame piece?  Her ace in the hole?

I agree that Nightblood seems to be a very important factor in whatever Endowment might have planned, being one of the most powerful invested objects in the cosmere. And as to her playing the longest game, she is definitely suspicious with how she doesn't seem to care about Odium and wants Hoid to never come on her planet, probably because his meddling can screw things up for her in the long run.

[Friendshipspren]

On 2/8/2019 at 4:18 AM, King's Twit said:

I definitely agree that Nightblood is going to be one of the most important endgame players for the Cosmere, and it does make a lot of sense that the prophetic elements of how Returned work would hint that Endowment has excellent futuresight, as it would parallel the two shards that we know have good/great futuresight: Ruin with the power of Atium and Odium with

  Reveal hidden contents

Renarin's abilities

 

Hmmm Ruin didn't really have great futuresight. Atium can only look a few seconds into the future. 

 

[StanLemon]

On 12/20/2020 at 9:11 AM, Friendshipspren said:

Hmmm Ruin didn't really have great futuresight. Atium can only look a few seconds into the future. 

 

Atium's limitations in Allomancy is probably not a good yardstick to determine Ruin's futuresight. He's at least good enough to plan decades in advance.

[apepi]

Had a thought, It will be funny in the future when everyone will have all this future tech wit guns and spaceships and Nightblood is just chilling as a sword.

[Shinwarrior]

The fact that Nightblood is made up of more than just endowment's investiture makes me think that even if she did have future sight enough to see future events like Odium on Roshar, I still think it was a bit of a gamble on her part that she returned the five scholars with the intent that they would create nightblood and leave him in circulation so that he could be a force against Odium. 

[+robardin]

On 12/21/2020 at 5:34 PM, StanLemon said:

Atium's limitations in Allomancy is probably not a good yardstick to determine Ruin's futuresight. He's at least good enough to plan decades in advance.

And yet he could still be suckered by what was essentially a sleight-of-hand maneuver by Ghost Kelsier.

Because he could see things, but not the hearts of people. The things they were likely to do, if he made things happen a certain way, but not always why. So the most unlikely of future paths could suddenly become THE path of the present, with the right emotional levers.

In a way, that was also why Odium's foresight "failed" him with respect to his plans for Dalinar.

On 9/12/2021 at 5:05 AM, apepi said:

Had a thought, It will be funny in the future when everyone will have all this future tech wit guns and spaceships and Nightblood is just chilling as a sword.

Oh I doubt Nighblood will just be "chilling".

I'm thinking more like, incorporated into a Allomantic Mecha or Hemalurgic cyborg!

[apepi]

10 hours ago, robardin said:

And yet he could still be suckered by what was essentially a sleight-of-hand maneuver by Ghost Kelsier.

Because he could see things, but not the hearts of people. The things they were likely to do, if he made things happen a certain way, but not always why. So the most unlikely of future paths could suddenly become THE path of the present, with the right emotional levers.

In a way, that was also why Odium's foresight "failed" him with respect to his plans for Dalinar.

Oh I doubt Nighblood will just be "chilling".

I'm thinking more like, incorporated into a Allomantic Mecha or Hemalurgic cyborg!

But I want a world where Nightblood feels inadequate with his body and jealous.

"I am still useful you know, you need to make me out of my sheathe more!".

Or someone just taking for granted Nightblood thinking he is just a sword and doesn't even think about picking him up.

[Narcoleptic Axolotl]

I like this theory. Let's assume she's the best at future sight that we've seen so far. I was very impressed by Preservation's plan, which took over a thousand years to transpire, and likely is part of an even larger plan. Honor and Cultivation together came up with a plan that has taken several thousand years so far, and isn't yet over. If Endowment is even better than that, we should buckle up. In the letters, it sounded like she wasn't very concerned about Odium, but if she's better at future sight than anyone else we've seen so far, then she should be at least a little worried. I'd guess that what she said in that letter is misdirection, or actually, more likely, what Hoid needed to hear for him to be in the position she needs for her plan. Either way, I don't believe it reflects her actual opinions, because she very well should be worried about Odium, and Nightblood making his way to Roshar is strong support for that idea.

Here's my expansion on the theory though: Vivenna (calling herself Azure) follows Vasher and/or Nightblood to Roshar, carrying an awakened sword of her own. This could be a sort of new improved version of Nightblood. According to this WoB,

Quote

Questioner

What would happen if Azure's sword was wielded against Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson

If Azure's sword was wielded against Nightblood, terrible things would happen, but Nightblood would be the stronger of the pair. Good question.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

Nightblood is more powerful, but it may have similar properties, which would mean it grows more powerful the more it's used. Hopefully they worked out the thing where it sucks up the wielder's investiture though. Anyway, I'm betting this sword is more of an 'endgame' than Nightblood is. Perhaps Nightblood is a distraction and Vivenna's sword is like a knife hidden in one's boot, a concealed backup that you can use when your enemy is least expecting it.

On 9/15/2021 at 10:08 PM, apepi said:

But I want a world where Nightblood feels inadequate with his body and jealous.

This idea reminds me of Umbra, from Elder Scrolls lore. Perhaps that's a connection worth looking into.

[Lunu’anaki]

On 12/20/2020 at 11:11 AM, Friendshipspren said:

Hmmm Ruin didn't really have great futuresight. Atium can only look a few seconds into the future. 

 

I think Ruin AND Preservation had good futuresight, and essentially cancelled each others out in most ways. There are plenty of hints in this direction in Mistborn Era 1 and Secret History.

[Trusk'our]

On 11/19/2021 at 0:15 PM, Lunu’anaki said:

I think Ruin AND Preservation had good futuresight, and essentially cancelled each others out in most ways. There are plenty of hints in this direction in Mistborn Era 1 and Secret History.

It's possible that Ruin did have decent future sight, but Preservation has one of the best since it seems to follow the Intent of his Shard the most closely.

[Lunu’anaki]

10 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

It's possible that Ruin did have decent future sight, but Preservation has one of the best since it seems to follow the Intent of his Shard the most closely.

Yes definitely. I should have clarified that. I think Preservation was able to see a bit more and therefore plan out Ruin's demise the way he did.

[Trusk'our]

32 minutes ago, Lunu’anaki said:

Yes definitely. I should have clarified that. I think Preservation was able to see a bit more and therefore plan out Ruin's demise the way he did.

Especially considering that Preservation's plan was still working over a thousand years after he lost most of his mind and had ANOTHER Shard actively scheming and manipulating the world durring that time, and they had the advantage of being fully aware. Preservation must have had REALLY good future sight.

[Bort]

I quite like this theory. With it in mind though, I would want to know, what did Nightblood learn from Cultivation when it spent time with her?

[Blushweaver]

I think Nightblood is certainly a part of her Endgame, but as with all competent shards I'm sure she has backup plans on top of backup plans. 

[KaladinWorldsinger]

I am surprised that no one has brought up the WoB that Endowment has no plans outside of Nalthis right now. That seems to disprove stuff

[Stark]

On 2/23/2022 at 11:11 PM, KaladinWorldsinger said:

I am surprised that no one has brought up the WoB that Endowment has no plans outside of Nalthis right now. That seems to disprove stuff

I was not aware of that, and it is an excellent point.  I would counter by saying that not having designs outside her own planet does not preclude making sure the biggest external threat to her planet is taken off the board.  Rayse would have eventually come to Nalthis to stir up trouble.  Having a plan to make sure he doesn't so that she can maintain her sandbox and plans for it is definitely possible.

[Bort]

On 9/15/2021 at 7:54 PM, robardin said:

I'm thinking more like, incorporated into a Allomantic Mecha or Hemalurgic cyborg!

Nightblood... The Cosmere's most highly invested hemalurgic spike?

[ReinyxGrey]

 

On 3/1/2022 at 4:40 AM, Bort said:

Nightblood... The Cosmere's most highly invested hemalurgic spike?

Was about to post this exact thought!