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Why Radiants feared Sja-anat so much


Pathfinder

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So I first preface this with I know the "lesser spren make shardplate" is a highly contested theory. So I realize that basing part of my theory on the premise that lesser spren making shardplate being true means it is not conclusive as there are well laid out arguments both for and against it. I was just having a back and forth on another thread when @insert_anagram_here brought up a quote, and it got me thinking. So for the sake of working out this theory, I will act as if lesser spren making shardplate is true, even though we do not know this for sure. So here we go

"Of the Unmade, Sja-anat was most feared by the Radiants. They spoke extensively of her ability to corrupt spren, though only "lesser" spren - whatever that means." (Hessi's Mythica)

So @insert_anagram_here brought up a really good point. If at that time Sja-anat could theoretically only possess "lesser" spren, then why would Radiants be especially fearful of her? I think part of the reason (not the whole, I have a feeling there is more) is that lesser spren make up shardplate (statement made in this fashion for sake of theory, not veracity, please see above explanation). Think of it like this, you are a radiant about to go into battle with high powered enemies or you are outnumbered. You call your shardplate to give you extra protection and the strength to fight off such overwhelming foes except.....nothing happens. Instead of you see corrupted versions of your lesser spren armor hanging around. Panicking you try to summon it again, only for again nothing to happen. You desperately try to fight off your foes with just your healing and surges, but it is not enough without the aid of your armor, and you fall. Or, you form your armor, but some of it is corrupted spren, that begin corrupting the rest of the spren, causing your armor to freeze up, or drain all your stormlight, or any other hazard that could come from being encased by something actively working against you.

So that is a broad summation of a rough theory as to why Sja-anat could be so fearsome with her corrupted lesser spren (in addition to using them as spies). What do you all think?

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I like this theory! I mean, I'm also behind the lesser spren shardplate theory, but still.

It's true that Radiant would have had to heavily rely on their plate. If an Unmade could eliminate such a fantastic resource, I would certainly be scared if I was a Knight. 

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Personally, I really don’t like the lesser spren theory, but this isn’t the place for that.

As for why the Radiants were afraid of Sja-anat corrupting spren, it could be that she could corrupt true spren all along, and the Radiants just said that she could only corrupt true spren so that the populace wouldn’t be afraid. Because, think about it, would you really trust the Radiants if you knew that their spren, the source of their abilities, could be corrupted to the enemy’s side?

Another idea is that maybe the Radiants didn’t know if Sja-anat could corrupt true spren, but they didn’t want to find out, so they recommended staying far from anywhere there were signs of Sja-anat’s corruption. Which is probably a good idea on its own, because who wants to be hanging around a city with the confirmed presence of an Unmade?

I think either of those theories work with Sja-anat saying that she hadn’t been able to corrupt an Oathgate spren before. The fact that she was able to corrupt the Kholinar Oathgate spren is probably due to Honor’s Splintering and how those spren made an oath to Honor before his death. Maybe Tanavast was protecting them from Sja-anat’s corruption somehow, and without that protection they’re open to her influence.

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1 hour ago, Mailnaise said:

I like this theory! I mean, I'm also behind the lesser spren shardplate theory, but still.

It's true that Radiant would have had to heavily rely on their plate. If an Unmade could eliminate such a fantastic resource, I would certainly be scared if I was a Knight. 

Thank you!

48 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Personally, I really don’t like the lesser spren theory, but this isn’t the place for that.

As for why the Radiants were afraid of Sja-anat corrupting spren, it could be that she could corrupt true spren all along, and the Radiants just said that she could only corrupt true spren so that the populace wouldn’t be afraid. Because, think about it, would you really trust the Radiants if you knew that their spren, the source of their abilities, could be corrupted to the enemy’s side?

Another idea is that maybe the Radiants didn’t know if Sja-anat could corrupt true spren, but they didn’t want to find out, so they recommended staying far from anywhere there were signs of Sja-anat’s corruption. Which is probably a good idea on its own, because who wants to be hanging around a city with the confirmed presence of an Unmade?

I think either of those theories work with Sja-anat saying that she hadn’t been able to corrupt an Oathgate spren before. The fact that she was able to corrupt the Kholinar Oathgate spren is probably due to Honor’s Splintering and how those spren made an oath to Honor before his death. Maybe Tanavast was protecting them from Sja-anat’s corruption somehow, and without that protection they’re open to her influence.

No worries, I completely understand, hence the disclaimer I started the post with.

So personally I think the reasons you offered are a stretch for me, with too many hoops to jump through. Radiants go through all that trouble to hide the reason, but still admit they fear her so much? If they were afraid of finding out if she could corrupt spren, then over the numerous desolations, no radiant was ever in a situation where his spren could have been corrupted by Sja-anat that would find out? Hmmm, the splintering could potentially play a part as it did affect the strength of the honorblades but I still don't know.

Well regardless my own theory is very loose/a stretch so I am one to talk lol. 

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2 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Thank you!

No worries, I completely understand, hence the disclaimer I started the post with.

So personally I think the reasons you offered are a stretch for me, with too many hoops to jump through. Radiants go through all that trouble to hide the reason, but still admit they fear her so much? If they were afraid of finding out if she could corrupt spren, then over the numerous desolations, no radiant was ever in a situation where his spren could have been corrupted by Sja-anat that would find out? Hmmm, the splintering could potentially play a part as it did affect the strength of the honorblades but I still don't know.

Well regardless my own theory is very loose/a stretch so I am one to talk lol. 

I mean, I don’t think it’s that big of a stretch to imagine that the Radiants would want to keep morale up in their non-Radiant forces by keeping the fact that their spren can be corrupted a secret from those forces. 

I just think it’s weird that Sja-anat suddenly gained the ability to corrupt true spren. None of the other Unmade appear to have changed how their abilities work, so I don’t see how Sja-anat could have. I guess we’ll just find out eventually.

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13 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

I mean, I don’t think it’s that big of a stretch to imagine that the Radiants would want to keep morale up in their non-Radiant forces by keeping the fact that their spren can be corrupted a secret from those forces. 

I just think it’s weird that Sja-anat suddenly gained the ability to corrupt true spren. None of the other Unmade appear to have changed how their abilities work, so I don’t see how Sja-anat could have. I guess we’ll just find out eventually.

I totally respect that. I just don't see why the radiants would go through the trouble of hiding that their spren could be corrupted, yet at the same time admit they fear Sja-anat the most/in particular. Seems like defeating the purpose. 

So I have a separate theory that the reason Glys got corrupted by Sja-anat is because Cultivation let it happen. She is setting up numerous chances that could grow into something. Taravangian, Dalinar, and in my opinion Renarin as well. Now again, I have used an unconfirmed theory to basically back up another theory that is backed up by another unconfirmed theory lol. So I understand and respect if this doesn't jive or work for you. Wish I had more concrete stuff to back it up, but at this point I just don't. 

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3 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

I totally respect that. I just don't see why the radiants would go through the trouble of hiding that their spren could be corrupted, yet at the same time admit they fear Sja-anat the most/in particular. Seems like defeating the purpose. 

I mean, they’d just be saying the fear an Unmade. I doubt the advice about leaving when there’s odd spren around is the only advice the Radiants gave to the common Rosharans about the Unmade. And the best place to hide something you don’t want anyone to know is in plain sight. If you tell people that you fear X because of Y, most people aren’t gonna suspect that you actually fear X because of Z.

And granted, both of our arguments are based on Hessi, and her knowledge could easily be incorrect in some way.

3 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

So I have a separate theory that the reason Glys got corrupted by Sja-anat is because Cultivation let it happen. She is setting up numerous chances that could grow into something. Taravangian, Dalinar, and in my opinion Renarin as well. Now again, I have used an unconfirmed theory to basically back up another theory that is backed up by another unconfirmed theory lol. So I understand and respect if this doesn't jive or work for you. Wish I had more concrete stuff to back it up, but at this point I just don't. 

You see, I don’t think or theories have to be mutually exclusive. I could totally see Cultivation setting up Glys’s corruption. Maybe it was just step one in getting Sja-anat to flip sides?

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3 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

I mean, they’d just be saying the fear an Unmade. I doubt the advice about leaving when there’s odd spren around is the only advice the Radiants gave to the common Rosharans about the Unmade. And the best place to hide something you don’t want anyone to know is in plain sight. If you tell people that you fear X because of Y, most people aren’t gonna suspect that you actually fear X because of Z.

And granted, both of our arguments are based on Hessi, and her knowledge could easily be incorrect in some way.

You see, I don’t think or theories have to be mutually exclusive. I could totally see Cultivation setting up Glys’s corruption. Maybe it was just step one in getting Sja-anat to flip sides?

True, though if we are to believe Hessi's, they fear Sja-anat in particular, and the general populace knew that which is why it was able to be recorded in the Mythica by someone (Hessi) ages later through research. I just think if you are going to tell people you fear something especially in particular, those people would naturally wonder why specifically that thing over others?

Very very true lol.

Also very true. I agree  :)

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I think this idea of corrupting lesser spren to cause problems with Radiant Plate is somewhat reasonable, but I just can't imagine a Radiant needing to pick up a bunch of local lesser spren every time they need to form Plate.  What if your Windrunner is underground or indoors?  Can he not summon Plate?  Does a Bondsmith need to do something awesome to attract gloryspren every time he wants his Plate?  I find it plausible that the Radiant needs to attract lesser spren the first time he forms Plate, but I just can't see it a requirement every single time.  What if all the necessary spren are just...somewhere else?

But then, I suppose it would be an issue if Sja-Anat could corrupt spren that were already part of a Knight's Plate, especially if she could do it just by touching the Radiant's armor.  We don't really know how long it takes her to corrupt spren, but it can't be all that long.  She wasn't active in Alethkar for long and yet she corrupted presumably hundreds or thousands of spren in that time.  So the theory seems plausible, just not in the "difficult to summon Plate" sense.  If they were worried about it, the Radiants could just summon their Plate before battle, while they were outside Sja-Anat's range.

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When it comes to Sja-anat, I think her ability to corrupt spren and gain control over them is the very relevant point for why she was so feared, but for reasons that relate to what Kaladin did to repel the highstorm.  I don't think it's farfetched to say that he bonded with those windspren and used them to briefly control the wind in his small area of influence.  Now imagine Sja-anat doing similar, except using any kind of spren that are nearby.  Bunch of painspren nearby?  Kind of hard to fight if they're being touched then used against you like with Navani's painrial.  This line of thinking is why I'm wondering if the Radiants lured all of the Unmade* to Shinovar to try and capture them: because of Sja-anat being too strong except in a place where spren typically don't manifest.

Another point, though this one is much more tenuous, is the possibility that Sja-anat can corrupt and control Investiture in general.  If she can corrupt a spren, and spren are basically instantiations of Investiture, why not the more general form as well?  If she can actually interfere with and/or consume their magic, then regurgitate it, that's pretty scary stuff because they'd effectively be powerless against Sja-anat.

 

*  Remember Shallan's impressions about Re-Shephir: "She'd felt isolation and loneliness from Re-Shephir, a sense of being torn away while the others escaped" (OB Ch 32), implying the Unmade were together at the time the Radiants managed to imprison Re-Shephir.

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4 hours ago, dvoraen said:

When it comes to Sja-anat, I think her ability to corrupt spren and gain control over them is the very relevant point for why she was so feared, but for reasons that relate to what Kaladin did to repel the highstorm.  I don't think it's farfetched to say that he bonded with those windspren and used them to briefly control the wind in his small area of influence.  Now imagine Sja-anat doing similar, except using any kind of spren that are nearby.  Bunch of painspren nearby?  Kind of hard to fight if they're being touched then used against you like with Navani's painrial.  This line of thinking is why I'm wondering if the Radiants lured all of the Unmade* to Shinovar to try and capture them: because of Sja-anat being too strong except in a place where spren typically don't manifest.

Personally, I think that what Kaladin with the highstorm was just a manifestation of his Adhesion surge, not using the windspren to break the storm. We've never seen Kaladin manipulate the windspren before, and I don't see how it should even be possible for a Radiant to use their surges to control spren in any way. What I think is more likely is that the windspren were already in the highstorm at the time, and they just became curious at what Kaladin was doing and kind of surged around him.

 

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On 2/8/2019 at 1:30 AM, galendo said:

I think this idea of corrupting lesser spren to cause problems with Radiant Plate is somewhat reasonable, but I just can't imagine a Radiant needing to pick up a bunch of local lesser spren every time they need to form Plate.  What if your Windrunner is underground or indoors?  Can he not summon Plate?  Does a Bondsmith need to do something awesome to attract gloryspren every time he wants his Plate?  I find it plausible that the Radiant needs to attract lesser spren the first time he forms Plate, but I just can't see it a requirement every single time.  What if all the necessary spren are just...somewhere else?

But then, I suppose it would be an issue if Sja-Anat could corrupt spren that were already part of a Knight's Plate, especially if she could do it just by touching the Radiant's armor.  We don't really know how long it takes her to corrupt spren, but it can't be all that long.  She wasn't active in Alethkar for long and yet she corrupted presumably hundreds or thousands of spren in that time.  So the theory seems plausible, just not in the "difficult to summon Plate" sense.  If they were worried about it, the Radiants could just summon their Plate before battle, while they were outside Sja-Anat's range.

Well we have seen kaladin seemingly summon windspren in the cognitive realm where they rarely go, as well as Shallan seemingly summon creation spren miles underground in Kharbrant, so I do not think that is a stretch. Elhokar commented on how glory spren always seem to hang out around Dalinar. I think the action taken makes them show up in the physical, but I posit they are always present or near by a radiant. So creation spren tend to hang out near a lightweaver, but will only show themselves when a lightweaver does something creative. So they are always available to form the plate. But that is just conjecture on my part. 

Thing is, think of it like this. You summoned your plate outside her range. You then fight a monster, and it does damage. Some of your blade is broke. Plate heals right? My theory posits the plate forms/heals from lesser spren. So now as your plate heals by adding new lesser spren, those are already corrupted by Sja-anat, so either the plate then can't heal, or now the plate is corrupted with the corrupted lesser spren, which brings us back to the original big fear. Being vulnerable or having your plate work against you. 

On 2/9/2019 at 2:26 PM, dvoraen said:

When it comes to Sja-anat, I think her ability to corrupt spren and gain control over them is the very relevant point for why she was so feared, but for reasons that relate to what Kaladin did to repel the highstorm.  I don't think it's farfetched to say that he bonded with those windspren and used them to briefly control the wind in his small area of influence.  Now imagine Sja-anat doing similar, except using any kind of spren that are nearby.  Bunch of painspren nearby?  Kind of hard to fight if they're being touched then used against you like with Navani's painrial.  This line of thinking is why I'm wondering if the Radiants lured all of the Unmade* to Shinovar to try and capture them: because of Sja-anat being too strong except in a place where spren typically don't manifest.

Another point, though this one is much more tenuous, is the possibility that Sja-anat can corrupt and control Investiture in general.  If she can corrupt a spren, and spren are basically instantiations of Investiture, why not the more general form as well?  If she can actually interfere with and/or consume their magic, then regurgitate it, that's pretty scary stuff because they'd effectively be powerless against Sja-anat.

 

*  Remember Shallan's impressions about Re-Shephir: "She'd felt isolation and loneliness from Re-Shephir, a sense of being torn away while the others escaped" (OB Ch 32), implying the Unmade were together at the time the Radiants managed to imprison Re-Shephir.

Interesting thoughts!

On 2/9/2019 at 6:37 PM, StrikerEZ said:

Personally, I think that what Kaladin with the highstorm was just a manifestation of his Adhesion surge, not using the windspren to break the storm. We've never seen Kaladin manipulate the windspren before, and I don't see how it should even be possible for a Radiant to use their surges to control spren in any way. What I think is more likely is that the windspren were already in the highstorm at the time, and they just became curious at what Kaladin was doing and kind of surged around him.

 

Well the whole chicken and the egg could be argued here. When Kaladin uses the adhesion surge, and then looks closely at the rock he stuck to the wall, he sees purple like spren. He speaks to Syl about it, and they ask are the spren sticking the stone to the wall, or are they attracted to the effect that sticks the rock to the wall? If I recall correctly, they didn't have an answer. Just like flame spren. Do flame spren cause fire, or does fire cause flame spren? Do rot spren cause rot, or are they attracted to it? 

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On 2/9/2019 at 2:26 PM, dvoraen said:

When it comes to Sja-anat, I think her ability to corrupt spren and gain control over them is the very relevant point for why she was so feared, but for reasons that relate to what Kaladin did to repel the highstorm.  I don't think it's farfetched to say that he bonded with those windspren and used them to briefly control the wind in his small area of influence.  Now imagine Sja-anat doing similar, except using any kind of spren that are nearby.  Bunch of painspren nearby?  Kind of hard to fight if they're being touched then used against you like with Navani's painrial.  This line of thinking is why I'm wondering if the Radiants lured all of the Unmade* to Shinovar to try and capture them: because of Sja-anat being too strong except in a place where spren typically don't manifest.

We have no indication that spren are able to cause the thing they're named for.  Painspren are attracted by pain, they don't cause it.  

 

1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

Well we have seen kaladin seemingly summon windspren in the cognitive realm where they rarely go, as well as Shallan seemingly summon creation spren miles underground in Kharbrant, so I do not think that is a stretch. Elhokar commented on how glory spren always seem to hang out around Dalinar. I think the action taken makes them show up in the physical, but I posit they are always present or near by a radiant. So creation spren tend to hang out near a lightweaver, but will only show themselves when a lightweaver does something creative. So they are always available to form the plate. But that is just conjecture on my part. 

Thing is, think of it like this. You summoned your plate outside her range. You then fight a monster, and it does damage. Some of your blade is broke. Plate heals right? My theory posits the plate forms/heals from lesser spren. So now as your plate heals by adding new lesser spren, those are already corrupted by Sja-anat, so either the plate then can't heal, or now the plate is corrupted with the corrupted lesser spren, which brings us back to the original big fear. Being vulnerable or having your plate work against you. 

I don't remember the books ever talking about (non-Radiant) spren transitioning between the Realms, just that different ones are more or less present in the Physical vs Cognitive.  For example, fearspren are just blobs of purple in the Physical Realm, but it's revealed in Oathbringer that those are just the tips of their antennae, and they're much larger in Shadesmar.  However, fearspren always appear the same, so they're not transitioning between the Realms.  

Windspren are very rare to see in the Cognitive Realm because they're like 99% in Physical Realm.  If there was a bundle of them that followed Kaladin around wherever he went, then they wouldn't be rare to see in Shadesmar.  

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9 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

We have no indication that spren are able to cause the thing they're named for.  Painspren are attracted by pain, they don't cause it.  

 

I don't remember the books ever talking about (non-Radiant) spren transitioning between the Realms, just that different ones are more or less present in the Physical vs Cognitive.  For example, fearspren are just blobs of purple in the Physical Realm, but it's revealed in Oathbringer that those are just the tips of their antennae, and they're much larger in Shadesmar.  However, fearspren always appear the same, so they're not transitioning between the Realms.  

Windspren are very rare to see in the Cognitive Realm because they're like 99% in Physical Realm.  If there was a bundle of them that followed Kaladin around wherever he went, then they wouldn't be rare to see in Shadesmar.  

And yet that is a philosophical question argued in the books with no clear answer. We know in the real world that bacteria causes wounds to fester, but on Roshar where perception does matter, Syl cannot even answer which comes first, the spren doing the effect, or the effect creating the spren. So it is not so clear cut.

When spren come attracted to something (emotion, etc), they "appear" as if out of no where. Brandon confirmed via WoB, they do hang around, and tend to hang around heavily human populated areas. As to windspren following Kaladin you kind of answered the question for me. Windspren are not always visible. Kaladin who thought Syl was a common windspren thought it was perfectly natural that no one else could see her "tormenting" him. So windspren could fill every inch of the air on the physical realm, but only "show" themselves when something attracts them. 

 

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@Pathfinder good point about spren not always being visible.  I was misinterpreting your previous argument to mean that spren were transitioning between the Realms.  However, we have seen cases of spren being draw to a location, not just appearing (Dalinar's realm-merging).  

As far as whether the spren are the cause or effect, I think it's pretty clear (even if they don't understand in-world).  Are captivityspren the ones that put you in jail?  Do alespren make you drunk?  Are you able to create fire if there aren't any flamespren nearby?  Are you able to be be happy, logical, embarrassed, or find something funny without the proper spren being nearby?  Do musical instruments not work if there aren't any musicspren?  

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4 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

@Pathfinder good point about spren not always being visible.  I was misinterpreting your previous argument to mean that spren were transitioning between the Realms.  However, we have seen cases of spren being draw to a location, not just appearing (Dalinar's realm-merging).  

As far as whether the spren are the cause or effect, I think it's pretty clear (even if they don't understand in-world).  Are captivityspren the ones that put you in jail?  Do alespren make you drunk?  Are you able to create fire if there aren't any flamespren nearby?  Are you able to be be happy, logical, embarrassed, or find something funny without the proper spren being nearby?  Do musical instruments not work if there aren't any musicspren?  

No problemo, and also Rock noticed the honorspren arriving from the distance. However, just because they can arrive, doesn't mean some could not already be present. Basically it is the difference between swimming with a few sharks, and then putting blood in the water and now you get 10 times that. To add to my theory, (with nothing to base it on, just me spitballing) but potentially I would say radiants have a higher likelihood of naturally having a certain type of spren hanging around them. Think of it like with dogs. Dogs may be friendly with a bunch of people, but if they learn to associate one person in particular being the one to feed them and give them treats, whether food is present or not, they are more inclined to hang around that person based on the expectation or hope of being fed. So too, to me, with spren. 

I believe the idea is that they are inextricably linked. I do not immediately have anything on hand to back this up, but I feel like I read somewhere with at least with Roshar, there is a reason why that is more ambiguous.  But I will concede till I find something more concrete than vague memory. 

Great discussion!  :)

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12 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

We have no indication that spren are able to cause the thing they're named for.  Painspren are attracted by pain, they don't cause it.

Yet a spren caught in a gemstone is required for "modern*" fabrial science, for the fabrial to actually do anything.  I think there's a very good chance a painspren is required for a painrial to cause and reduce pain.  The point I was trying to make, though, is that there have been hints that everyday spren such as flamespren and the like can evoke an effect on the Physical Realm under the right circumstances, presumably via bonding combined with a source of Investiture.  Just look at the entire Singer race, skyeels and greatshells for proof of that.  The Singers generally can't transform into everyday forms without bonding a spren or the Unmade getting involved.  And so, based on those hints, I think it stands to reason that Sja-anat touching and controlling a lesser spren could very well allow her to generate those effects.  Her touch for a fact creates a bond of sorts (or else she couldn't control spren she touches) and an Unmade certainly qualifies as a source of Investiture, so I don't think it's farfetched to say Sja-anat can Do Things(tm) with lesser spren besides spy with them.

 

* I refer to the fabrials we've seen on screen the most, the type that Navani's involved in creating, not the fabrials such as Soulcasters.

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4 hours ago, dvoraen said:
17 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

We have no indication that spren are able to cause the thing they're named for.  Painspren are attracted by pain, they don't cause it. 

Yet a spren caught in a gemstone is required for "modern*" fabrial science, for the fabrial to actually do anything.  I think there's a very good chance a painspren is required for a painrial to cause and reduce pain.  The point I was trying to make, though, is that there have been hints that everyday spren such as flamespren and the like can evoke an effect on the Physical Realm under the right circumstances, presumably via bonding combined with a source of Investiture.  Just look at the entire Singer race, skyeels and greatshells for proof of that.  The Singers generally can't transform into everyday forms without bonding a spren or the Unmade getting involved.  And so, based on those hints, I think it stands to reason that Sja-anat touching and controlling a lesser spren could very well allow her to generate those effects.  Her touch for a fact creates a bond of sorts (or else she couldn't control spren she touches) and an Unmade certainly qualifies as a source of Investiture, so I don't think it's farfetched to say Sja-anat can Do Things(tm) with lesser spren besides spy with them.

Man, I need to read posts a little bit closer.  

I agree that spren bonds can grant abilities and effects on Roshar (like they can elsewhere in the Cosmere).  And that Sja-Anat can directly control some spren, with the caveats that that may not be the same kind of bond (e.g. between a person/animal and a Splinter) and that she doesn't do it that often (we've only seen it twice, I think).  I think that if she was able to cause a massive pain AoE, then she would have displayed it before, at Kholinar or somewhere.  Or used flamespren to burn all of Urithiru.  Or something else stupidly powerful.  

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13 hours ago, IGetLIFTed said:

I think that maybe she can corrupt all spren. After all, Glys (Renarin’s spren) is corrupted, which sounds like the work of Sja-anat.

We know that now, but from Sja-anat's own mouth as well as the Hessi's Mythica imply she has never corrupted spren higher than base spren before. Basically Sja-anat corrupting Glys is a new thing. This theory is trying to figure out why the Radiants would be afraid of her back then presumably before she has ever tried to corrupt a higher spren. So if back then she could presumably corrupt only lesser spren, then why would a radiant especially fear her as per Hessi's Mythica? That is the question this theory is trying to answer. 

1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Man, I need to read posts a little bit closer.  

I agree that spren bonds can grant abilities and effects on Roshar (like they can elsewhere in the Cosmere).  And that Sja-Anat can directly control some spren, with the caveats that that may not be the same kind of bond (e.g. between a person/animal and a Splinter) and that she doesn't do it that often (we've only seen it twice, I think).  I think that if she was able to cause a massive pain AoE, then she would have displayed it before, at Kholinar or somewhere.  Or used flamespren to burn all of Urithiru.  Or something else stupidly powerful.  

Just because we have not seen it happen on screen does not mean it has not happened. All we have seen of Re-shephir is a couple of midnight essences that normal troops could hold off. Dalinar could, with training, hold off multiple ones, and a small group of normal soldiers were able to hold off a larger group of them in her direct presence. Going purely on that, she would not be much of a threat to Radiants, and definitely not much of a threat to a Herald. Yet we are given a hint by Shallan that Re-shephir is missing something, which could hint at a weakness which is why she was not as deadly as she could be. We do not know what other things Sja-anat could be capable of, so although that does not mean we could come up with made up abilities, at the same time, we cannot discount possibilities out of hand just because we have not seen it done on screen. So I think it is a very interesting thought that Sja-anat could potentially use lesser spren in the manner that they would manifest as a fabrial. That would be scary to me, and could validate a greater than normal fear of her in particular. 

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In Dalinar's visions they were hunting corrupted spren.  So they considered those dangerous enough to send a full Radiant of at least the 4th ideal after one of them. Isn't that reason enough? The other Unmade can only be in one region at a time, but Sja-Anat has minions.

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1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

In Dalinar's visions they were hunting corrupted spren.  So they considered those dangerous enough to send a full Radiant of at least the 4th ideal after one of them. Isn't that reason enough? The other Unmade can only be in one region at a time, but Sja-Anat has minions.

RE: Bolded

Not necessarily.  We don't know the full extent of the Unmade's powers, particularly how far Ba-Ado-Mishram's influence had spread when she was Connected to the singers before her capture.  Not only that, but we know next to nothing about Dai-Gonarthis and Chemoarish, and I suspect we have not seen everything Yelig-nar is capable of doing either.  For example, how many hosts can Yelig-nar have at one time?  Can he choose how fast he consumes one, allowing for sleepers to travel across the world?  We have not seen the sapient Unmade do a whole lot, which I find very curious if not deliberate.  Sja-anat was said to be the most feared by the Radiants, yet she didn't really do a whole lot in Oathbringer to validate that claim.  Knowing that she can spy on you with a shadow is neat and all, but I don't know that I'd call it fearsome on its own.

There's just so much we don't know about the Unmade.

Edited by dvoraen
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1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

In Dalinar's visions they were hunting corrupted spren.  So they considered those dangerous enough to send a full Radiant of at least the 4th ideal after one of them. Isn't that reason enough? The other Unmade can only be in one region at a time, but Sja-Anat has minions.

I feel that more proves she was feared in particular due to the level of response (full radiant and squires), but does not tell us the why she was so feared.

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